Was Obama right?

[Jay1]

Rome ruled over the kings of the earth when John had his vision. At that time it was the Roman Empire, now it is the Roman Catholic church.

 

[Denken]

May 20, 2011, (Friday) President Obama demands that Israel return to 1967 boarders, The Joplin tornadoes strike by Sunday, May 22.

By Tuesday, the death toll in Joplin had reached 124, making it the single deadliest tornado since the National Weather Service began keeping such records 61 years ago.


The tornado in Joplin brought the number of people who have died in U.S. tornadoes to 489 so far this year. The figure could escalate as rescue workers continue digging through rubble from Sunday’s tornado in Joplin, Missouri.

hmm im sure it killed many people who thought just like you. Wonder what it might have been saying if it killed more Christians then Atheists. Bringing the dead into a discussion is shameful. their have been many disasters all over, im wondering is it the Jewish God or the Christian God. And i forget what was the Rainbow meant to symbolize?

 

[Denken]

Rome ruled over the kings of the earth when John had his vision. At that time it was the Roman Empire, now it is the Roman Catholic church.

Curious, Rome didnt rule over the Eastern kingdoms. whats that about?

 

[Jay1]

You are right, it didn't, but the bible is talking about the world empires that conquered the Children of Israel; Babylon, Media and Persia, Greece and Rome in that order. Daniel 2:31-45, 7:3-27, 8:1-25 are parallel scriptures.

 

[posthuman]

View attachment 72621

View attachment 72622

You will notice that bottom visual is color coded based upon growth only, not on a total number of Christians. Even then, many of the people classified as Christian in these nations would be Maryology type Catholics, Mormons, and other cult types. These maps are not showing the type of Christian in America's "Bible belt." These other nations do not have a "Bible belt." America does, but they do not.

The top visual is color coded to include a type of Christian whose concept of God is a woman in a blue robe, the woman they pray to as God. These nations, put together, would not have as many real Bible believing Christians as in America alone. If, as you claim, they are so much more Christian than America why is it always America who is sending them missionaries and Bibles? Why is it never the other way around?
It doesn't take much in the way of critical thinking skills to debunk the criterion used by the above secular sources in defining what is a real Christian.

you will notice that the top is based on percentage of people responding to polls self-identifying as "Christian"
and that there are many countries with a higher percentage of respondents in that category than the USA.

i agree completely that checking a box next to the word "christian" on a census form is no measure of the heart of a man.
but what, do we just trust your emotional opinion over how people respond when directly asked what category their religious belief falls under? are you the one that judges mens hearts, or is God?
obviously only the Lord knows the heart. men don't even understand their own hearts.

how do you know there is no "bible belt" in Brazil? in Ghana? in Slovenia?
isn't that your own patriotic pride talking?

when you say the Pew Research foundation, US census and CIA purposefully colored the map blue i think you're reaching a bit, my friend. it's true though that this data reflects people who are Catholic as much as it does people who go to no church and read no bible but if asked, would say they are "christian" rather than "muslim" or "hindu" etc. again though, when you refer to a poll saying "78% of Americans are christian" -- you believe that, but you don't believe the same poll when it's applied to any other country?

in the end God knows the hearts of men, and this kind of statistic is probably overestimating % in every country.

i'm also asked, "when did God take the kingdom of heaven away from the USA and give it to Botswana?"

my friend, when did God call America "His chosen people" ?
only men called America this. only American men. did you forget that Mormons call Utah "God's chosen state" ? Salt Lake City was founded by heretical men that call themselves "christian" -- do we accept their testimony? why then should we accept America's testimony that she has some divine authority to do as she pleases with the world? Mormons send missionaries all over the world, and few send missionaries to Utah. is that some sort of "proof" ?

God has never called any nation "His people" but Israel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You have still not answered the question. Who, which, is "...the nation bearing the fruits thereof" (Matt. 21:43). Is this text of no significance to you?

What about it?

The greek word used to form the english translation in english is ethnos. from where we get the greek word ethnic. It is translated nations many times. But for the most part. it is translated heathen, or gentiles (non Jews)

Thus the literal translation. which fits with ALL scripture. is that God took the kingdom from Israel, and gave it to the gentiles. This is proven in Romans 11. Which also states, at some date in the future, it will be returned to israel. as the time of the GENTILES (same word used here) is complete.

so again. whats your point?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You obviously have comprehension problem.
You only understand what you are saying .
You like to put words in others mouths and then judge them as being less informed than you are.
Your foolish post are not worth responding to.
I will pray for you.

lol..

You refuse to answer questions
You refuse to even acknowledge romans 1

It is not my foolish posts, but your unwillingness which makes this conversation mute.

Thanks for praying for me though. I can never have enough prayers. But I will pray for your understanding.

And your right, this conversation is mute. Until you humble yourself to even answer some hard questions and acknowledge you even understand what I am saying without being offended, there can be no conversation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Perhaps then our legal system, so as not to judge, should remove all penalties for the sins of murder and theft, etc.

whats this have to do with the eternal salvation of ones soul?

All you did was just prove, even in a heathen judicial system. Gods laws are written on our hearts. Romans 1 is confirmed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If, because God is going to judge America, this is not the "nation bearing the fruits thereof" (Matt. 21:43), which is? Please, tell me, I'm waiting.

Which is it? The church, Which was given to the gentiles.

It is not a particular nation. The church is universal. not relegated to one nation as it was in the OT.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The problem in America will be dealt with as explained in the kingdom parables, one of which is as follows.

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (age). The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity (lawlessness)....Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father...." Matthew 13:40-41; 43 (parentheses mine)

This tells us that things that offend (legalized sin, i.e., aborticide, same sex perversion, usurious money system, porn, etc.) are going to be removed, gathered out of his kingdom (government). Also to be removed at this time are the wicked, i.e., those who legalized this lawlessness ("iniquity"). Not until then will the non-Christian/anti-Christian element which now reigns supreme be removed, i.e., removed and replaced. They are going to be replaced with those who rise "to meet" Jesus on his way down. Thus are the wicked removed and replaced with a righteous government at the end of the age. Let us therefore, occupy until He comes.

this speaks of the whole world. not one nation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did Christ involve himself in politics?

render to ceasar what is ceasars, and to God what is God.

He was concerned with what is Gods. not what is concerned with human government.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Preaching that people need to repent of their sins is not a gospel of works and law. Repentance isn't a work of the law, no matter how much your false doctrine wants to spin it as such.

I did not say it was.

Telling a person to stop being a homosexual or it is a sin

Telling a person to stop taking drugs, it is a sin

Telling a person to stop (insert name of sin) is a sin, and we must stop is law.

Telling a person who already knows they are a sinner (see romans 1) and in need of a savior because ALL have sinned (rom 3: 23) and fall short of the glory (mark) set by God to save yourself., and we all need a savior is the gospel. You do not need to judge personal sin to convince a person of this fact. If you do, you are preaching law. Not grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

May 20, 2011, (Friday) President Obama demands that Israel return to 1967 boarders, The Joplin tornadoes strike by Sunday, May 22.

By Tuesday, the death toll in Joplin had reached 124, making it the single deadliest tornado since the National Weather Service began keeping such records 61 years ago.


The tornado in Joplin brought the number of people who have died in U.S. tornadoes to 489 so far this year. The figure could escalate as rescue workers continue digging through rubble from Sunday’s tornado in Joplin, Missouri.

these natural catastophies are worldwide in scope. this is not an isolated insident. And not Gods judgment on the US. If anything, it is prophesy being fulfilled concerning the last days when Christ tells us of the birth pangs, in which natural disasters will increase with a ferosity, power and strength in these days, so we may know the end is near.

Telling people it is God punishing the US takes away form the true meaning, that the end is near for the whole world. and we better look at the signs and spread the gospel like mad. because the time is short!

 

[Historicist]

Which is it? The church, Which was given to the gentiles.

It is not a particular nation. The church is universal. not relegated to one nation as it was in the OT.

Why do you conveniently assume that "a nation" is "the church?" Why do you say, when Matt. 21:43 does not say, that "a nation" is the church? Also, you imply that non-Israelites only, were the nucleus of the church. If this was true why does Hebrews, an epistle to Hebrew-Israelites describe them---as Christians? Why does James, addressed to "...the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad" (James 1:1) describe them---in a Christian context? How about the first Christians, those "...thousands of Jews there are which believe" (Acts 21:20)? How about those "...convinced Jews" (Acts 18:28)? And what about the people upon which the Holy Spirit descended on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2)? Context identifies them as "Jews," and Acts 4 numbers them at 5000. Were these somehow not of the church, because, as you say, "the church...was given to the gentiles?" Are we so brainwashed with a mantra, the idea that Israel rejected Jesus, that we cannot see the forest for the trees?

If, as you say the church was given to non-Israelites show me contextual evidence for this. By contextual evidence I mean chapter and verse. Show me, using chapter and verse, the ethnicity of the church you believe was a mixture of Edomites, Canaanites, Hittites, or other nearby non-Israelites. If, while attempting to do this, the scales fall off your eyes, you will discover that the context of Paul's epistles identifies Christians called "Gentiles," as Israelites, as non-Jew Diaspora Israelites (the dispersion, i.e., "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" [Matt. 15:24]; "the other sheep I have which are not of this fold" [John 10:16]).

 

[Historicist]

whats this have to do with the eternal salvation of ones soul?

All you did was just prove, even in a heathen judicial system. Gods laws are written on our hearts. Romans 1 is confirmed.

It is not possible that the Law of the Lord, that God's laws are written on the hearts of antinomian "Christians."

 

[Historicist]

this speaks of the whole world. not one nation.

You are ignoring the fact that Matt. 21:43 says that "the kindgom of God" shall be given, not to the world, but to "a nation."

 

[Historicist]

What about it?

The greek word used to form the english translation in english is ethnos. from where we get the greek word ethnic. It is translated nations many times. But for the most part. it is translated heathen, or gentiles (non Jews)

Thus the literal translation. which fits with ALL scripture. is that God took the kingdom from Israel, and gave it to the gentiles. This is proven in Romans 11. Which also states, at some date in the future, it will be returned to israel. as the time of the GENTILES (same word used here) is complete.

so again. whats your point?

Where do you find, in the context of Romans 11, that "the kingdom of God," that which was taken from non-Messianic Israelites (Matt. 21:43) is going to be given back to the same? Your entire argument is based upon the idea that the Judean Pharisees and their loyalists, those who rejected Jesus, were all of Israel. This could not be further from the truth. The Judean Pharisees were not even all of Judah, much less all of Israel. When Jesus walked in Palestine, most Israelites ("the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad" [James 1:1]) were outside of Palestine, and had been for hundreds of years.

Much of your confusion also lies in an assumption that modern, that contemporary "Jews" are Israelites and representative of ancient twelve tribed Israel. Their own historians admit that this is not true, that they, being of Ashkenazi-Khazar ancestry are neither of Judah or Israel. For proof of this Google on The Invention of the Jewish People by Israeli history professor Shlomo Sand, and The Thirteenth Tribe by Jewish historian Arthur Koestler, and the 2012 Johns Hopkins Jewish DNA Study. Yes, I know that the religious establishment would have us identify latter day Israel based upon the idea that first century Israel rejected Jesus and the New Covenant, but this is a lie. It's a lie designed to deceive Christendom into supporting "them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9; 3:9). Don't fall for it. The bottom line is that "...the twelve tribes," those which were "scattered abroad" (James 1:1) in the first century were the nucleus of the church. Latter day Israel, contrary to seminary teaching, is not primarily a non-Christian people. Latter day Israel is, primarily a Christian people, and one and the same with historic Christianity. The religious establishment does not want us to know this, they do not want you to know that those "twelve tribes...scattered abroad" in the first century are found today in historic Christianity, the Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Germanic, Scandinavian and related European people.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do you conveniently assume that "a nation" is "the church?" Why do you say, when Matt. 21:43 does not say, that "a nation" is the church? Also, you imply that non-Israelites only, were the nucleus of the church. If this was true why does Hebrews, an epistle to Hebrew-Israelites describe them---as Christians? Why does James, addressed to "...the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad" (James 1:1) describe them---in a Christian context? How about the first Christians, those "...thousands of Jews there are which believe" (Acts 21:20)? How about those "...convinced Jews" (Acts 18:28)? And what about the people upon which the Holy Spirit descended on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2)? Context identifies them as "Jews," and Acts 4 numbers them at 5000. Were these somehow not of the church, because, as you say, "the church...was given to the gentiles?" Are we so brainwashed with a mantra, the idea that Israel rejected Jesus, that we cannot see the forest for the trees?

If, as you say the church was given to non-Israelites show me contextual evidence for this. By contextual evidence I mean chapter and verse. Show me, using chapter and verse, the ethnicity of the church you believe was a mixture of Edomites, Canaanites, Hittites, or other nearby non-Israelites. If, while attempting to do this, the scales fall off your eyes, you will discover that the context of Paul's epistles identifies Christians called "Gentiles," as Israelites, as non-Jew Diaspora Israelites (the dispersion, i.e., "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" [Matt. 15:24]; "the other sheep I have which are not of this fold" [John 10:16]).

I guess some people do not wish to hear or discuss anything.

I gave you the greek for the word nation. Which can be translated nation, People group, Gentile (non jewish) or heathen.

The exact same word is used in matt 6: 32 -[SUP]32 [/SUP]For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.

God said he took it from them (Israel as a nation or people group) and gave it to another group of people (nation or group) Did this happen? Can we prove it? Or was it one nation? As YOU want us to believe?

lets look at the evidence..

1. Was the kingdon given to one nation? No. People who entered the kingdom came from many different nations, Israel, Rome, and Asia
2. Did any of these nations take control of the kingdom, and responsibility given originally to Israel, (The OT Church) to keep the oracles of God and spread the gospel to the nations? NO! it was held by the church, which after 70 AD, was held by the Gentiles (even though many jews were a part of it)
3. Is their scriptural proof? well I already gave it, but since people do not wish to comment on passages I give, or read up on it. I guess I will post it.


Romans 11:11–12 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles (Same greek word translated nation in matt 24) . [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!


Romans 11:15 (NKJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?


Romans 11:25 (NKJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles (same greek word translated nation in matt 24) has come in.

what happens when the fullness of the gentiles comes in??

ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED

whats this mean? The kingdom is returned to Israel. with as scripture says, christ as her king!

but some people do not want to see this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is not possible that the Law of the Lord, that God's laws are written on the hearts of antinomian "Christians."

so romans 1 is a lie.. thank you. If you do not believe scripture. we can not discuss anything.. good day!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are ignoring the fact that Matt. 21:43 says that "the kindgom of God" shall be given, not to the world, but to "a nation."

keep reading in english and ignoring the text. It was taken from Israel and given to the gentiles.