Tattoos

[MrsRoseTreasure]

Well, maybe men shouldn't cut their beards. I'm just saying.

I think Yahweh had it in his mind how he wanted us to look. There are things he does in scripture for his own pleasure.

[SUP]Exodus 29:17 [/SUP]Cut the ram into pieces and wash the internal organs and the legs, putting them with the head and the other pieces. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Then burn the entire ram on the altar. It is a burnt offering to the Lord, a pleasing aroma, a food offering presented to the Lord.

In Yahweh's world, women look like women, and men have beards, and we are free from the marks the Pagans put on their skin, and we are like innocent children/lambs before him. (I could dig up scripture on all of that, if you want me to, but I'm guessing you've read them, too. )

I believe that being pleasing is important. In the word, it says my husband is my head, and my desire is for him. That makes sense to me now because truly I love to be pleasing to my husband. I love it when he says I please him. I love it when he is pleased and says nothing at all. We were made to be companions of Yahweh. In our naked creation he proclaimed our bodies: "GOOD." The way were were created pleases him. Why would we ever want to be not pleasing to him?

Should he lead me to a doctor to remove my tattoos, I would have them removed. I'm not opposed, if it would please My Father. However, I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

Hi there. MrsRoseTreasure:

I can appreciate what you are saying; it does still come back to how broadly you interpret the verse in Leviticus 19, evidently.

For example, in Isaiah 49.16, the Lord says: "I have graven thee upon the palms of my hand" (Amplified Bible: graven, tattooed) or in Ezekiel 16.12, where the Lord Himself gives earrings and even a nose ring to Zion; can it really be said that the Lord is going against whatever He is interpreted as saying in Leviticus 19?

No. This is my answer, anyway. (Saying yes would pose problems about the unity of Scripture.)

Maybe it can be said that the issue is not as clear-cut as uniquely basing a viewpoint on a very broad interpretation of one verse would make out.

(There are also still problems internal to Leviticus 19, in that preachers who try to apply the 'cutting' verse rather broadly and yet don't have a bushy beard, would seem to have no grounds to stand on.)

Blessings.

 

[Simona25]

I am talking rather specifically about the fact that faith based tattoo designs are indeed proven conversation-starters.

But where would that tattoo be planted so that the strategy turns successfull?

 

[faroukfarouk]

If there are body cuts,are you going to chip that flesh off from your body...?
Trying to alter is continuing the same habit.Christianity has a culture in Christ.And irrespective of nationality we have,there are standards that should be kept as Christian.altering tattoo is just the same as doing it again and improving it.
We shouldn't correct and teach God,He teaches us.Otherwise consequences follow in bad ways for what you thought and did was for good.
"Paul also said that demons cannot indwell a person that is indwelt by the Holy Spirit."Well,provide me the Holy Bible verse.
And also generally,when Holy Spirit dwells in us,if we invite demons because of our pride,Holy spirit will go and demons will enter.

I think we are now talking more broadly about other theological issues.

2 Corinthians 6.19 is what I was thinking of.

Someone cleansed by the blood of Christ and indwelt by the Holy Spirit from the new birth is hardly going to lose the Holy Spirit's indwelling because of a tattoo in a God honoring design.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Well, maybe men shouldn't cut their beards. I'm just saying.

I think Yahweh had it in his mind how he wanted us to look. There are things he does in scripture for his own pleasure.

[SUP]Exodus 29:17 [/SUP]Cut the ram into pieces and wash the internal organs and the legs, putting them with the head and the other pieces. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Then burn the entire ram on the altar. It is a burnt offering to the Lord, a pleasing aroma, a food offering presented to the Lord.

In Yahweh's world, women look like women, and men have beards, and we are free from the marks the Pagans put on their skin, and we are like innocent children/lambs before him. (I could dig up scripture on all of that, if you want me to, but I'm guessing you've read them, too. )

I believe that being pleasing is important. In the word, it says my husband is my head, and my desire is for him. That makes sense to me now because truly I love to be pleasing to my husband. I love it when he says I please him. I love it when he is pleased and says nothing at all. We were made to be companions of Yahweh. In our naked creation he proclaimed our bodies: "GOOD." The way were were created pleases him. Why would we ever want to be not pleasing to him?

Should he lead me to a doctor to remove my tattoos, I would have them removed. I'm not opposed, if it would please My Father. However, I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

Well, if very conservative Christians were to try, in an effort to 'enforce' Leviticus 19 consistently, to promote a sweeping no tattoos 'policy', by also trying to enforce a no shaving 'policy', all I can say is that they would be in a tiny, tiny minority...

Again, my dispensational outlook would cause me to ask: are New Testament Christians of a heavenly character under grace in the same situation as Old Testament Jews in the land under the law?

Blessings.

 

[faroukfarouk]

But where would that tattoo be planted so that the strategy turns successfull?

Are you asking about placements? often arm or wrist is used; it can be covered or uncovered, according to the occasion.

 

[Jda016]

How much perfect are you in doing Godly things?Yes.i agree that wearing a shirt with biblical verses doesn't make a person Christian.But be it senior Christian or junior Christian,Love of God can make a person exhibit it.Having a shirt with printed bible verses is not the same as tattoo.don't mix things.And it's irrespective of the person's quality.Yes,also its sad when some hypocrite who doesn't care about God do it for initial thrill.
But at this rate,it might be forbidden for Churches to put Holy Scripture verses on their walls,because the people in Lord's Ministry are corrupt.I don't think so.Keep the balance.

My point was not that Christian t-shirts were bad, but that if we are going to continually wear something that shows us to be a Christian, then I think we have a higher responsibility to show Christ-likeness.

much more damage is done when a whole crowd of people see someone representing God with tattoo,shirt, or jewelry start to swear violently, act pervertedly, etc than if they never wore/had those things in the first place. It reeks of hypocrisy which Christians get blamed for bad enough.

 

[faroukfarouk]

My point was not that Christian t-shirts were bad, but that if we are going to continually wear something that shows us to be a Christian, then I think we have a higher responsibility to show Christ-likeness.

much more damage is done when a whole crowd of people see someone representing God with tattoo,shirt, or jewelry start to swear violently, act pervertedly, etc than if they never wore/had those things in the first place. It reeks of hypocrisy which Christians get blamed for bad enough.

This is also a reason why baptism, whereby one publicly confesses the Lordship of Christ, should not be undertaken lightly. So many young people, maybe urged by misguided parents, have been immersed in circumstances which have not been characterized by personal conviction, and this has led to great problems for the testimony later.

I'm sure the faith based tattoo aspect is also relevant.

Blessings.

 

[ji]

I think we are now talking more broadly about other theological issues.

2 Corinthians 6.19 is what I was thinking of.

Someone cleansed by the blood of Christ and indwelt by the Holy Spirit from the new birth is hardly going to lose the Holy Spirit's indwelling because of a tattoo in a God honoring design.

2 Corinthians 6.19 is a question that Apostle asks.And the question is about are people guarding their body which was given to God from evil practices and lusts of this world.
If you honor God,try to follow Holy Bible.It's not guess work.
Yes,someone filled with Holy Spirit is indeed powerful.And you are right.A Holy Spirit filled person is not left by Holy Spirit in an instant.But if we love the world more,and tattoos which brings the world in through it can compel Holy Spirit to move out of you and you will come under satan's influence.
Being in Christ is separation from world.If tattoos can influence the world into you,you will slide away from God in the long run.Its not sudden denial that satan makes us do,but gradually make us sway away and pluck us out from Faith in God.And a mark(tattoo) on the human body which was created like to the image of God is an invitation for satan to enter and God to leave because its an abomination/violation on his creation.

 

[faroukfarouk]

2 Corinthians 6.19 is a question that Apostle asks.And the question is about are people guarding their body which was given to God from evil practices and lusts of this world.
If you honor God,try to follow Holy Bible.It's not guess work.
Yes,someone filled with Holy Spirit is indeed powerful.And you are right.A Holy Spirit filled person is not left by Holy Spirit in an instant.But if we love the world more,and tattoos which brings the world in through it can compel Holy Spirit to move out of you and you will come under satan's influence.
Being in Christ is separation from world.If tattoos can influence the world into you,you will slide away from God in the long run.Its not sudden denial that satan makes us do,but gradually make us sway away and pluck us out from Faith in God.And a mark(tattoo) on the human body which was created like to the image of God is an invitation for satan to enter and God to leave because its an abomination/violation on his creation.

What about Isaiah 49.16?

Separation from false doctrine and immorality is vitally important.

But it is frankly theologically incorrect to suggest that a person indwelt by the Spirit because s/he is born again, can be supposed un-born again.

Those who live and die in sins, whatever their profession, were not born again in the first place. The Lord knows the heart.

 

[ji]

My point was not that Christian t-shirts were bad, but that if we are going to continually wear something that shows us to be a Christian, then I think we have a higher responsibility to show Christ-likeness.

much more damage is done when a whole crowd of people see someone representing God with tattoo,shirt, or jewelry start to swear violently, act pervertedly, etc than if they never wore/had those things in the first place. It reeks of hypocrisy which Christians get blamed for bad enough.

i understand the fear in your words.It's understandable.What you said is true and it made me worry a lot too.But then i realized that it was eating me down.And it makes me crippled to do Godly things.Too much fear.
And i realized that Love of God can make everything possible.We can wear a shirt with printed bible verse or give tracts or preach in street according the desire given to us by God.When we feel God is with us,we stop looking at people and stop thinking how they will judge us.None of the apostles were perfect when Jesus called them to ministry.They were made perfect in the latter.
Look unto Jesus,everything Good(Good desire god has given) is possible.
Fear cripples us,Love of God strengthens us in our weakness.

 

[Jda016]

Again, I am not calling for perfection, but wisdom. It is not about fear of doing something wrong, but specifically misrepresenting Christ.

I forget where it is, but there is a very specific group of instructions for deacons in the church (Titus maybe) their children are to be in order, they are to be men of no ill repute, etc, etc. These things were asked of Deacons because they represented the church of Jesus Christ in greater fashion.

I am simply saying, that there needs to be caution on how we represent God.

i love my Christian t shirt, but when I wear it, I actually try to be more careful with my words and actions because I know I am telling everyone around me, that I am a Christian.

 

[ji]

What about Isaiah 49.16?

Separation from false doctrine and immorality is vitally important.

But it is frankly theologically incorrect to suggest that a person indwelt by the Spirit because s/he is born again, can be supposed un-born again.

Those who live and die in sins, whatever their profession, were not born again in the first place. The Lord knows the heart.

What has Isaiah 49:16 has got anything to do with the relevant topic?

And yes,those who ignore Gospel indeed perish.But those who ignore Gospel after getting saved also will perish.
Acts 16:31 KJV - Initial Salvation.
Mathew 24:13 KJV - Final deliverance.
There is a continuous struggle inside every Christian to strive for more Holiness.It's a growth and 'not static initially saved everything accomplished' situation.If anything of the world comes in the way it must be removed for Mathew 24:13 KJV.

 

[MrsRoseTreasure]

You assume I am saying something about law. I am not, and we are not having that discussion. I said clearly it's pleasing to Yahweh. I'm confused why you keep bringing that into being something about law.

Well, if very conservative Christians were to try, in an effort to 'enforce' Leviticus 19 consistently, to promote a sweeping no tattoos 'policy', by also trying to enforce a no shaving 'policy', all I can say is that they would be in a tiny, tiny minority...

Again, my dispensational outlook would cause me to ask: are New Testament Christians of a heavenly character under grace in the same situation as Old Testament Jews in the land under the law?

Blessings.

 

[ji]

Again, I am not calling for perfection, but wisdom. It is not about fear of doing something wrong, but specifically misrepresenting Christ.

I forget where it is, but there is a very specific group of instructions for deacons in the church (Titus maybe) their children are to be in order, they are to be men of no ill repute, etc, etc. These things were asked of Deacons because they represented the church of Jesus Christ in greater fashion.

I am simply saying, that there needs to be caution on how we represent God.

i love my Christian t shirt, but when I wear it, I actually try to be more careful with my words and actions because I know I am telling everyone around me, that I am a Christian.

I know the passage about deacons and bishops you have mentioned.But it has got nothing to do with Gospel sharing.
Too much caution without reason is not from God.If you Love God,try to correct yourself more and more, irrespective of wearing a cloth printed with biblical verses.There is the problem solved for you.The other way is hypocrisy.
Whether you share Gospel or not,if you are not taking an effort to change for better,then without wearing clothes with Holy Scripture verses also doesn't make you a better person.In fact its worse.
Get rid of the fear.

 

[parablepete]

I see nothing wrong with one done in good taste. Flower, hearts, Jesus saves,ect. I believe one does need to be careful. I am 66 and don't have a tat. We are told to stone people to death that miss the sabbath day, those of you who believe that don't do it. Those laws are not for us today. There is FREEDOM in Jesus, not as much as some would like. But, a Tat that don't hurt anyone even yourself. Nonsence.

 

[faroukfarouk]

You assume I am saying something about law. I am not, and we are not having that discussion. I said clearly it's pleasing to Yahweh. I'm confused why you keep bringing that into being something about law.

Well, fine.

I was simply responding in part to your comment about men maybe needing to be bearded. I assumed this was at least an oblique reference to Leviticus 19.

Blessings.

 

[faroukfarouk]

What has Isaiah 49:16 has got anything to do with the relevant topic?

And yes,those who ignore Gospel indeed perish.But those who ignore Gospel after getting saved also will perish.
Acts 16:31 KJV - Initial Salvation.
Mathew 24:13 KJV - Final deliverance.
There is a continuous struggle inside every Christian to strive for more Holiness.It's a growth and 'not static initially saved everything accomplished' situation.If anything of the world comes in the way it must be removed for Mathew 24:13 KJV.

Isaiah 49.16 quotes the Lord: 'I have graven thee on the palms of my hands' (Amplified Bible: graven, tattooed).

If you are teaching that someone can be saved today and lost tomorrow, I for one completely refuse this teaching. See Romans 8.38-39.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I see nothing wrong with one done in good taste. Flower, hearts, Jesus saves,ect. I believe one does need to be careful. I am 66 and don't have a tat. We are told to stone people to death that miss the sabbath day, those of you who believe that don't do it. Those laws are not for us today. There is FREEDOM in Jesus, not as much as some would like. But, a Tat that don't hurt anyone even yourself. Nonsence.

Well, exactly. I think you would be dispensational in your understanding of Scripture interpretation, Sir, as I am also.

Some people do it for witness purposes and find it quite effective as a conversation-starter.

 

[Jda016]

I know the passage about deacons and bishops you have mentioned.But it has got nothing to do with Gospel sharing.
Too much caution without reason is not from God.If you Love God,try to correct yourself more and more, irrespective of wearing a cloth printed with biblical verses.There is the problem solved for you.The other way is hypocrisy.
Whether you share Gospel or not,if you are not taking an effort to change for better,then without wearing clothes with Holy Scripture verses also doesn't make you a better person.In fact its worse.
Get rid of the fear.

Ok. My point with the scripture for deacons and the greater judgement for teachers was to show that there is more responsibility on the person to live rightly who more greatly represents the name of Christ.

I see a similar situation where we need to show a greater level of Christlikeness (like the deacons and teachers) when we wear Christian clothing/jewelry/ tattoos.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Ok. My point with the scripture for deacons and the greater judgement for teachers was to show that there is more responsibility on the person to live rightly who more greatly represents the name of Christ.

I see a similar situation where we need to show a greater level of Christlikeness (like the deacons and teachers) when we wear Christian clothing/jewelry/ tattoos.

That's all I'm saying.

I think I understand what you are saying and I would agree.