The Letter to the Romans...

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H

Hoffco

Guest
Elin, Your 2nd point is wrong. Thus, this hurts the truth of and stains the rest of your points. "The Gospel is the power of God to believers", true BUT what follows is wrong.! IT should read: Therefore, this power creates in us a good new heart of righteousness ,which enables us to live a holy life. the first actions in our new holy life is : repent of sins and trust Christ alone for salvation and begin a new life of holy obedience to God by this power God has given us. In His "holy calling", the "New Birth." We will live a holy life and a life of faith which will teach us the in Hid wonderful Gospel, God proves He is total righteous and has always and will always be righteous in His dealing with men. This is what ch. 1 of Romans teaches us. There is nothing of Justification in Ch. one.. ch. one is totally and only ,the sinfulness of man and the power of God that delievers sinners ,by the new birth from their bondage to sin; and ch. two continues this theme of salvation by the heart circumcision by the power of the Holy Spirit, as seen in the born again life of holiness of the Gentles, as contrasted to the wicked life of an unsaved Jew. Please, let God teach you His Word.! All you need to do is read and believe it, don't change to you own liking. Love to all, Hoffco
 
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7) God cannot be unjust in bringing his wrath on unbelief, even if unbelief benefits
God by bringing out his righteousness more clearly, for Scripture states that he is
the just judge of the world who can do no wrong.
(Dt 32:4; 2Ch 19:7; Job 8:3, 34:10-11, 36:23; Ps 119:137; Eze 18:25; Da 4:37, 9:14).
If he were unjust, how could he be the just judge of the world? (3:6)
 
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Elin, Your 2nd point is wrong. Thus, this hurts the truth of and stains the rest of your points.
Point 2 cannot "stain the rest of the points."
That's called "smear tactics."

"The Gospel is the power of God to believers", true BUT what follows is wrong.! IT should read: Therefore, this power creates in us a good new heart of righteousness ,which enables us to live a holy life. the first actions in our new holy life is : repent of sins and trust Christ alone for salvation and begin a new life of holy obedience to God by this power God has given us. In His "holy calling", the "New Birth." We will live a holy life and a life of faith which will teach us the in Hid wonderful Gospel, God proves He is total righteous and has always and will always be righteous in His dealing with men. This is what ch. 1 of Romans teaches us.

There is nothing of Justification in Ch. one.. ch. one is totally and only ,the sinfulness of man and the power of God that delievers sinners ,by the new birth from their bondage to sin; and ch. two continues this theme of salvation by the heart circumcision by the power of the Holy Spirit, as seen in the born again life of holiness of the Gentles, as contrasted to the wicked life of an unsaved Jew.
You are totally incorrect that there is nothing of justification in Ro 1.

"For in the gospel a righteousness (justification) from God is revealed,
a righteousness (Gr: dikaiosune) that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written:
'The righteous will live by faith.' " (Ro 1:17)

It is the same righteousness provided by God for mankind apart from the law (Ro 3:21-22).
It is the state of being "in the right" in relation to God.
It is "to make or declare right" (Gr: dikaioo), to declare not guilty, to justify apart from law (Ro 3:20).

It is "justified" (Gr: dikaioo) freely by his grace (Ro 3:24).

The "righteousness" (Gr: dikaiosune) of Ro 1:17 is the "justification" (Gr: dikaioo) of Ro 3:20, 24.

Justification is in the first chp of Ro, in v. 17.

Please, let God teach you His Word.! All you need to do is read and believe it, don't change to you own liking.
I am not the one who is changing Ro 1 to their own liking.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
It is really sad , you are a perfect example of one pauls says is taken captive by the Devil 2Tim.2:26 to teach christians half truths, I don't doubt your salvation, if you are personally born of God, holy, and trusting Jesus and not your good works, you are not saved, if you only have faith and no works of holiness ,you are still lost in sin. Love to all, Hoffco
 
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It is really sad , you are a perfect example of one pauls says is taken captive by the Devil 2Tim.2:26 to
teach christians half truths, I don't doubt your salvation, if you are personally born of God, holy, and trusting Jesus and not your good works, you are not saved, if you only have faith and no works of holiness ,you are still lost in sin.
Keeping two things in mind:

1) it is not you who is the just judge of the world (Ro 3:6), and

2) we are not to judge, for we will be judged with the same measure with which we judge others.
(Mt 7:1)

"The Gospel is the power of God to believers", true BUT what follows is wrong.! IT should read: Therefore, this power creates in us a good new heart of righteousness ,which enables us to live a holy life.
No, "the gospel is the power of God to salvation."

Your loose handling of the text leads you into error.

So it's time for you to relax, settle down, listen and learn.

Truth vs. "half truth" is measured by the word of God, and your "truth" does not pass muster.

The confusion comes first of all from

A. Paul's use of the word "righteousness" in two ways:

1) right action - uprightness; e.g., Ro 6:13, 16, 18, 19, 20; Eph 6:14, etc.

2) right standing (position) - justification, imputation, gracious gift of God bringing into right relationship;
e.g., Ro 1:17, 3:22, 24, 4:5, 13, 5:1, 9, 16-19, 8:30, 9:30, 10:6; Gal 2:16; Php 3:9; etc.,
it is not a character change, it is a position only.

You are misapplying the meaning "right action, uprightness" to Ro 1,
whose meaning is "gift, imputation, justification."


B. Secondly, "sanctification" has two meanings:

1) position - set apart, from sin and to God

2) holiness - through/by the obedience of faith in the power of grace

You are misapplying "sanctification" (in its sense of "holiness") to Ro 2,
which in the context of Ro 1-3 (showing the unrighteousness of all mankind),
is presenting the unrighteousness of the Jews, and has nothing to do with
sanctification, either in position, nor practice of obedience (holiness).


Chp 2 has nothing to do with Christian sanctification.
It is about the unrighteousness of the Jews.

C. Now let's look at the text of Ro 1:16.

The text states that the gospel "it is the power of God to salvation of everyone who believes."

Salvation is the forgiveness of sin. (Lk 1:77)

The gospel reveals "a righteousness from God," by forgiveness of sin
(not by sanctification through obedience of faith),
"that is by faith, from first to last," (not by sanctification through obedience of faith). (Ro 1:16)

Righteousness from God, gift (Ro 5:17) imputed (Ro 5:18-19), positional,
(not the change of character in sanctification through obedience of faith),
is the subject of Ro 1-5.

Sanctification through obedience of faith (holiness) is not presented until chps 6-8.







 
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Hoffco

Guest
It is sooo sad the way you twist clear the teaching of the Bible. You don't let the context dictate the meaning of the words. You need to get to the heart of mater, the NEW HEART that God imparts to the sinners. This takes the "power" of God, 1:16. The Gospel is the POWER of God to all who believe. The word POWER is, in Gk. dunamis, In STRONGS concordance, #1411,pg.25, the meaning is the ability,power, to do a miracle, as to ,force, the unusual to happen, this is ,for the sinner, a change of nature, character,. This is why Paul uses the words, "holy calling", "called to be saints", "the obedience of the faith" in ch. 1, and in ch. 2:29 " circumcision of the heart by the Spirit" "inward" heart circumcision not in the flesh which was the "letter" of the law. the power of God forces a character,a nature change, in the sinners' heart. This not justification, but it is Sanctification. It is the old Presbyterian doctrine of "the effectual calling"of the sinner with the Holy Spirit's new birth. The sinner is given a new heart, nature so we can obey God in holy works. The "effectual calling of the Spirit" is described very clearly in 1Cor, ch,1. Please study it there. Love to all ,,Hoffco
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
I will give a summary of the teaching of Paul, God, about the "effectual calling" in 1Cor, 1:1,2,4,9,24,26,30. This "calling"is done by the "power",dunamis, of God, 1:24. "But to those who are CALLED, (born again) both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power (dunamis that changes the nature of man to holiness of character) of God and the wisdom of God." As you read, you must insert the correct meaning of the word used, as I did here,for you. If you have a false meaning for the word, you will come up with a false meaning on this verse. This is your problem, Elin,, you have false meanings for the words "call" and "sanctification". The word, "call" has three meanings in the Bible, according to the context. This is a wide spread problem of MOST Bible teachers today. Only ,like, 1 in a 1,000 pastors will give you the correct meaning. AS you read 1Cor.1 and look at the verses I have pointed out, you will see the POWERFUL CALLING,FORCING, that God uses to save the lost by the new birth, effectual calling. Love to all, Hoffco
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
The Greek language has two words for power, 1. dunamis= the ability to work, and even to do a miracle. 2. exousia= the right, authority to command. as a king has the right to give orders; because the king has an ARMY, dunamis-power, behind his authority. Both these words are used to describe God's actions in salvation. God's dunamis-power' creates new life in the dead sinner, New Birth; and God's exousia-authority, declares the sinner forgiven and adopted into His family. Rom.1:16 is God's dunamis-power, to give the new Birth, Rom.5:18 shows God exousia-authority, to Justify the sinner and Rom..5:19 shows God's dunamis-power, to change the sinner into a holy saint. The first thing God does in saving sinners ,is to Change their heart by God's dunamis-power, , this is seen in Romans chapters 1 &2. The second thing God does to save the sinner is by God's exousia-authority, His right to forgive the sinner, this is seen in Rom.3:20-5:18; THEN, in Rom5:19, Paul goes back to the new birth, the change of heart in the sinner, by God's dunamis-power, making the sinner righteous in heart, by the new birth. Theology is very simple, if you know the meanings of words. Love to all, Hoffco
 
Jan 19, 2013
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It is sooo sad the way you twist clear the teaching of the Bible. You don't let the context dictate the meaning of the words. You need to get to the heart of mater, the NEW HEART that God imparts to the sinners. This takes the "power" of God, 1:16.
The Gospel is the POWER of God to all who believe.
Altering the text again. . .

"The gospel is the power of God to salvation," (Ro 1:16) which is forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77),

which forgivnesss saves from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) on one's sin at the final judgment.

You alter the text to make it mean what you like it to mean.

This has been previously addressed.
 
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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,144
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It is sooo sad the way you twist clear the teaching of the Bible. You don't let the context dictate the meaning of the words. You need to get to the heart of mater, the NEW HEART that God imparts to the sinners. This takes the "power" of God, 1:16. The Gospel is the POWER of God to all who believe. The word POWER is, in Gk. dunamis, In STRONGS concordance, #1411,pg.25, the meaning is the ability,power, to do a miracle, as to ,force, the unusual to happen, this is ,for the sinner, a change of nature, character,. This is why Paul uses the words, "holy calling", "called to be saints", "the obedience of the faith" in ch. 1, and in ch. 2:29 " circumcision of the heart by the Spirit" "inward" heart circumcision not in the flesh which was the "letter" of the law. the power of God forces a character,a nature change, in the sinners' heart. This not justification, but it is Sanctification. It is the old Presbyterian doctrine of "the effectual calling"of the sinner with the Holy Spirit's new birth. The sinner is given a new heart, nature so we can obey God in holy works. The "effectual calling of the Spirit" is described very clearly in 1Cor, ch,1. Please study it there. Love to all ,,Hoffco
Hoffco, is your concern here that one will take God's grace for granted? Abuse it? For the righteousness that I see by Faith in Christ, through Christ is God's, not mine and never will be mine.
For me personally I am glad to be a partaker in God's righteousness through Christ the Son
Love you and all
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,144
366
83
I will give a summary of the teaching of Paul, God, about the "effectual calling" in 1Cor, 1:1,2,4,9,24,26,30. This "calling"is done by the "power",dunamis, of God, 1:24. "But to those who are CALLED, (born again) both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power (dunamis that changes the nature of man to holiness of character) of God and the wisdom of God." As you read, you must insert the correct meaning of the word used, as I did here,for you. If you have a false meaning for the word, you will come up with a false meaning on this verse. This is your problem, Elin,, you have false meanings for the words "call" and "sanctification". The word, "call" has three meanings in the Bible, according to the context. This is a wide spread problem of MOST Bible teachers today. Only ,like, 1 in a 1,000 pastors will give you the correct meaning. AS you read 1Cor.1 and look at the verses I have pointed out, you will see the POWERFUL CALLING,FORCING, that God uses to save the lost by the new birth, effectual calling. Love to all, Hoffco
Curious in the second Testament, Gospel where after the death, burial, resurrection does God FORCE?
In the First Testament Law was forced upon the First chosen, and all that wanted to be a part of them, Where after Crist's death is there force from God who through Son went to the cross for the whole world to save it, and rose again to give new life.
I mean while we all are, yet were sinners in Father's sight Christ died for us. Where is force in this to us from God?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,144
366
83
The Greek language has two words for power, 1. dunamis= the ability to work, and even to do a miracle. 2. exousia= the right, authority to command. as a king has the right to give orders; because the king has an ARMY, dunamis-power, behind his authority. Both these words are used to describe God's actions in salvation. God's dunamis-power' creates new life in the dead sinner, New Birth; and God's exousia-authority, declares the sinner forgiven and adopted into His family. Rom.1:16 is God's dunamis-power, to give the new Birth, Rom.5:18 shows God exousia-authority, to Justify the sinner and Rom..5:19 shows God's dunamis-power, to change the sinner into a holy saint. The first thing God does in saving sinners ,is to Change their heart by God's dunamis-power, , this is seen in Romans chapters 1 &2. The second thing God does to save the sinner is by God's exousia-authority, His right to forgive the sinner, this is seen in Rom.3:20-5:18; THEN, in Rom5:19, Paul goes back to the new birth, the change of heart in the sinner, by God's dunamis-power, making the sinner righteous in heart, by the new birth. Theology is very simple, if you know the meanings of words. Love to all, Hoffco
Yes God does this. and it is all God and none of me ever, I take no credit whatsoever. Allk i ever did was got the new work started in me from God the very first day of belief
Ephesians 1:13 in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Philippians 1:6
being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a goodwork in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

[h=3]Philippians 2:12-13[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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Recap of 25 gospel principles from Ro 1:1-6:4:
(Revised)

1) Grace was given to Paul to (call, thereby bringing about in others) obedience of faith. (1:5)

2) The gospel is the power of God to salvation to everyone that believes, because
a
) salvation is the forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77), which saves from God's wrath (Ro 5:9)
at the final judgment,
b) it reveals a righteousness from God (Ro 1:17, 3:21), a free gift (5:17), that is through faith
by grace, not by obedience.

This righteousness = justification = declared guiltless, position of right standing before God.
The cause of justification (position of right standing) is faith only.
The result of justification (position) is actual sanctification, through the obedience of faith. (1:16-17).

3) God's wrath is shown by giving men over to their sin, by judging (punishing) sin
with increased sin. (1:18)

4) God judges
according to truth (2:2), for those who hold the truth in unrighteousness,
according to deeds (2:6-11), for those who possess the Mosaic law, and
according to the light one has (2:12-15), for Gentiles who do not possess the Mosaic law. (2:2-16)

5) Jews had the advantage of the word of God and the law, but they were not
the saving advantage of true faith. (3:1-2)

6) Though Israel was unfaithful to God, God is faithful to his promise to punish sin
and unbelief. (3:3-5)

7) God cannot be unjust in bringing his wrath on unbelief, even if unbelief benefits
God by bringing out his righteousness more clearly, for Scripture states that he is
the just judge of the world who can do no wrong
(Dt 32:4; 2Ch 19:7; Job 8:3, 34:10-11, 36:23; Ps 119:137; Eze 18:25; Da 4:37, 9:14).
If he were unjust, how could he be the just judge of the world? (3:6)

8) God has shut up all men in sin. (3:19)

9) God is both just in requiring penalty for sin, and the justifier in providing the payment
of the penalty. (3:26)

10) Righteousness through faith, apart from the law, has always been the teaching
of the OT (Ge 15:6). (3:28)

11) We do not "establish the law" by being made righteous according to it. That is anti-gospel.
We "establish the law" in the NT by establishing the right use of the law,
we don't overthrow the law, we establish its standing by setting it on the right basis;
i.e., although we cannot be saved by it as a covenant, we submit to it in Christ's two
commandments (Mt 22:37-39), which are subject to the law of grace. (3:31)

12) Salvation is the forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77),
which removes our guilt and God's wrath on it at the final judgment.
We are saved from the wrath of God at the final judgment, by forgiveness of our sin,
not by works of obedience.
(4:8)

13) Circumcision was not an action (work) required to confirm faith.
Circumcision was a sign only, given as a seal to guarantee one's righteousness by faith,
apart from works.
(4:11)

14) Those under the law cannot be heirs to the promise because
inheritance by law keeping makes faith worthless, and
law keeping effectively voids the promise, by disqualifying everyone and producing
only wrath. (4:14-15)

15) The promise can be guaranteed only if it is based on faith, because basing it on
law keeping can result only in wrath (Gal 3:10), it cannot result in fulfillment of the promise.

Righteousness by faith was guaranteed by the sign of circumcision (4:11), and the
promise is guaranteed by grace through faith
(4:16).

16) True saving faith is the conviction of belief, which obeys. (4:20)

17) Jesus rose from the dead as the firstfruits of the resurrection of all believers,
as proof that he was who he said he was, Christ the Redeemer, of his people
from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) by forgiveness of their sin (Lk 1:77),
through faith in him (Jn 3:16, 18, 36).

The resurrection shows that Jesus' sacrifice (death) was accepted as atonement for sin (Ro 3:25) and,
therefore, we have, indeed, been justified (declared guiltless, position of right standing before God)
by his atoning death.


Christ's blood was poured out (Lk 22:20) on the ground at the base of the cross (Jn 19:34, 36-37),
just as the animals' blood was poured out on the ground at the base of the altar
(Lev 4:7, 18, 25, 30, 34).

Christ was physically resurrected, not so he could take his physical blood into a physical sanctuary
to physically sprinkle it on physical things (no physical blood, it had been poured out on the ground).

The heavenly things (gospel graces for the redeemed) of Heb 9:23-24 were purified by his Spirit,
the Holy Spirit, when
his work was finished,
his Spirit departed at his death (Jn 19:30),
returned to God, and
established
the gospel graces of his atoning
death for the redeemed.

And those graces are now applied by him in his
living resurrected body, through his Spirit (Ro 8:27)
in the presence of God (Heb 9:24), where he ever lives to intercede for us (Ro 8:34; Heb 7:25).

Christ's death atoned for sin (Ro 3:25),
and his life now applies that atonement to the redeemed in justification
(position of right standing)
by faith alone.
(4:25)

18)
We are justified (position of right standing) by faith, apart from any other actions of obedience,
as was Abraham
(Ge 15:6). (5:1)

19) We are
saved. . .from the wrath of God at the final judgment, because we have been
justified (declared guiltless, position of right standing before God) through faith in Christ's
blood (Ro 3:25), which is his atoning death. (5:9)

20) Since God saved us from his wrath through justification (declared guiltless, position of
right standing before God) by Christ's atoning
death, he shall also save (sanctify, glorify) us
through Christ's resurrected
life, who ever lives to intercede for us (Heb 7:25; Ro 8:34). (5:10)

21) Although sin was not taken into account between Adam and Moses
when there was no Mosaic law to transgress,
yet all mankind died as the result of sin (Ro 6:23).
So for what sin were all men held guilty and subject to death, when sin was not taken into account?
They were all held guilty of Adam's sin. (5:12-17).

22) Just as the one act of trespass and disobedience of the first Adam made the many sinners
and resulted in their condemnation,
so the one act of obedience and righteousness of the second Adam made righteous and justified
(position of right standing, guiltless before God) the many.

Man was both made a sinner and made righteous, not because of what man did, but because of
what Adam and Christ did.

Man is born a sinner and unrighteous, because of Adam's sin "imputed" to him at conception (Ps 51:5).
Man is justified, made righteous (position of right standing, guiltless) because of Christ's righteousness
"imputed" to him at rebirth. (5:18-19)

23) Just as sin was increased by the law, so grace was increased by sin (5:20-21).

24) So in 5:12-21:

a) our own sin/sinfulness is not the ground for our condemnation,
it is our guilt of Adam's sin that condemns us (Ps 51:5),
the very nature with which we are born (sinful) condemns us (Eph 2:3); and

b) our own obedience/sanctification is not the ground for our justification (position of right
standing, guiltless),
it is the righteousness of Jesus Christ's obedience to death that
justifies us, through faith alone, which is the burden of Ro 4 and Ro 5. (5:12-21)

25) Baptism is the when and how of our death to sin.
When: in our union with Christ in baptism, which is a union in the benefits of his death.
How: by entering into the purpose of his death - to redeem us from sin,
- - - -by living according to the model of his death - who died for sin,
- - - -by being raised with Christ - to die to sin. (6:1-4)
 
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H

Hoffco

Guest
Elin, you still have "the cart before the horse." Sorry for calling God a "horse" ; BUT hope you know , I mean no disrespect to God! Soo. don't seize the opportunity to slam me,.! Sanctification must give us the power to Repent, trust and obey, before we can be Justified by Grace, Faith and works, all three means are used in our Justification. Your point 2 is still wrong. Homwardbound You are still wrong ,: one sided on "Faith only ". The word "force " is Biblical, Jesus said, " no one can come to Me. UNLESS the Father DRAW him" The word draw is the "forceful" conversion given us, by the Father's POWER, dunamis, causing the new heart,birth into God's family, born with God's holy nature inside of us. This is the only reason, base upon which, Sanctification continued in the Christians life can be based upon. This is why "called" comes before "Justified" in Rom. 8:29-30. The new birth,"called" comes before forgiveness "justified". Christian are sooo deceived today.! Love to all, Hoffco
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Elin, you still have "the cart before the horse." Sorry for calling God a "horse" ; BUT hope you know , I mean no disrespect to God! Soo. don't seize the opportunity to slam me,.! Sanctification must give us the power to Repent, trust and obey, before we can be Justified by Grace, Faith and works, all three means are used in our Justification. Your point 2 is still wrong. Homwardbound You are still wrong ,: one sided on "Faith only ". The word "force " is Biblical, Jesus said, " no one can come to Me. UNLESS the Father DRAW him" The word draw is the "forceful" conversion given us, by the Father's POWER, dunamis, causing the new heart,birth into God's family, born with God's holy nature inside of us. This is the only reason, base upon which, Sanctification continued in the Christians life can be based upon. This is why "called" comes before "Justified" in Rom. 8:29-30. The new birth,"called" comes before forgiveness "justified". Christian are sooo deceived today.! Love to all, Hoffco
Previously addressed. . .multiple times.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,144
366
83
Elin, you still have "the cart before the horse." Sorry for calling God a "horse" ; BUT hope you know , I mean no disrespect to God! Soo. don't seize the opportunity to slam me,.! Sanctification must give us the power to Repent, trust and obey, before we can be Justified by Grace, Faith and works, all three means are used in our Justification. Your point 2 is still wrong. Homwardbound You are still wrong ,: one sided on "Faith only ". The word "force " is Biblical, Jesus said, " no one can come to Me. UNLESS the Father DRAW him" The word draw is the "forceful" conversion given us, by the Father's POWER, dunamis, causing the new heart,birth into God's family, born with God's holy nature inside of us. This is the only reason, base upon which, Sanctification continued in the Christians life can be based upon. This is why "called" comes before "Justified" in Rom. 8:29-30. The new birth,"called" comes before forgiveness "justified". Christian are sooo deceived today.! Love to all, Hoffco
The words "force" and "draw" have two different meanings.
Force one to drink is not truly drinking from a choice, that takes away free choice: Was Adam and Eve "forced" to eat from that tree or "drawn" to eat from it?
Just as we are drawn by God through Son to eat from the tree of life today, for life eternal, by "free": choiice
If it were forced upon us this here battle of flesh and blood would be over done. There would be no choice, free if it were forced so God while we were all yet:
Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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Elin, you still have "the cart before the horse." Sorry for calling God a "horse" ; BUT hope you know , I mean no disrespect to God! Soo. don't seize the opportunity to slam me,.! Sanctification must give us the power to Repent, trust and obey, before we can be Justified by Grace, Faith and works, all three means are used in our Justification. Your point 2 is still wrong. Homwardbound You are still wrong ,: one sided on "Faith only ". The word "force " is Biblical, Jesus said, " no one can come to Me. UNLESS the Father DRAW him" The word draw is the "forceful" conversion given us, by the Father's POWER, dunamis, causing the new heart,birth into God's family, born with God's holy nature inside of us. This is the only reason, base upon which, Sanctification continued in the Christians life can be based upon. This is why "called" comes before "Justified" in Rom. 8:29-30. The new birth,"called" comes before forgiveness "justified". Christian are sooo deceived today.!
I have a suggestion.

You like John MacAruthr. . .I cut my teeth on John MacArthur.

I suggest you check out his commentary and see if he places sanctification before justification

in his commentary on Romans.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
I have to say, MacArthur has his bad moments. His current messages are not as truthful as His older ones. In my opinion, he has drifted from his first book on the GOSPEL ACCORDING TO JESUS CHRIST. Pipper is better on the whole truth. J.I.Packer is better. love to all, Hoffco
 
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UriahSmith1844

Guest
There were two men around the year 1888 named A.T. Jones and E.J. Waggoner in the Seventh Day Adventist Church who explained much of the Scriptures that have to do with the subject of Righteousness by Faith. Every time I read any of their writings, I go away amazed at their insights into the Bible.

The following is a .pdf of the BOOK OF ROMANS, chapter by chapter, explaining what it means. If anyone wants to read this, I am sure that you will be blessed.

http://pdf.amazingdiscoveries.org/eBooks/ARTICLES_ON_ROMANS.pdf
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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6,768
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There were two men around the year 1888 named A.T. Jones and E.J. Waggoner in the Seventh Day Adventist Church who explained much of the Scriptures that have to do with the subject of Righteousness by Faith. Every time I read any of their writings, I go away amazed at their insights into the Bible.

The following is a .pdf of the BOOK OF ROMANS, chapter by chapter, explaining what it means. If anyone wants to read this, I am sure that you will be blessed.

http://pdf.amazingdiscoveries.org/eBooks/ARTICLES_ON_ROMANS.pdf
just a thought, but shouldn't Christians lean on the wisdom of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit to impart understanding to them?