Does the Bible teach Eternal Security

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Baptistrw

Guest
#21
#21
believe can mean to simply believe a fact but... in the greek in John 3.16Believe; believeth
G4100
πιστεύω
pisteuō
pist-yoo'-o
From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#22
#22
Baptistrw said:
I'm asking that question to show you the fallacy of your argument. If we can lose our salvation, how much sin does one have to commit to lose it?
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You must make a decision to return to sin, you must continue in unrepentant sin with no remorse. Making a mistake and then repenting will not forfeit your salvation. If you are truly serving God you should know it. The problem with the teaching of OSAS is it gives people who are not serving God a false since of security, they think they have been saved and cannot loose their salvation. The last thing on their mind is God or serving Him yet because of the false teaching of eternal security, they are oblivious to their need for repentance.
 
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Baptistrw

Guest
#23
#23
Ahh it cut off the rest of the definition. As for works, they validate salvation, but aren't the cause of it.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#24
#24
Baptistrw said:
Ahh it cut off the rest of the definition. As for works, they validate salvation, but aren't the cause of it.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
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This passage is telling us that none of us can be saved in and through our own ability or work, that we all need Christ. What this passage does not say is that some one who lives in sin, in open rebellion to God and His word will go to Heaven because they were at one time a Christian.
 
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Baptistrw

Guest
#25
#25
If one loses their salvation by falling back into sin, can they get it back?
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#26
#26
Baptistrw said:
If one loses their salvation by falling back into sin, can they get it back?
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Yes, and Hebrews 6:4-6 does not say they can't

(Do you think this my first time around this block...lol) I know your thought before you think them, and I know a set up question when I see it. So go ahead and quote your verse so I can teach you something.
 
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Baptistrw

Guest
#27
#27
Yes it does. Christ cannot be recrucified for sin.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;

or as the ESV puts it
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they then fall away, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#28
#28
Baptistrw said:
Yes it does. Christ cannot be recrucified for sin.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;

or as the ESV puts it
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they then fall away, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
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I agree it seems to say that once you turn from Christ is is impossible to retrun, but I also think there are some stipulations for this impossibility to return to kick in. You would have had to have...
#1 have been enlightened to the truth (all believers have done this)
#2 have tasted the heavenly gift (this proves that they have been saved, because salvation is the heavenly gift)
#3 been partakers of the Holy Ghost ( not all believers have done this)
#4 have tasted the good word of God (I believe this come from m7ature knowledge of the truth and the consequence of turning away, which most believers 'IMO'' have come to this mature knowledge)
#5 Seen, tasted understood the powers of the word to come. (this comes from a prophetic gift or and full understanding of eschatology, I would say most believers have not achieve this)

I believe those that have achieved all 5 of these above stipulations are the ones that if they turn from God it would be impossible for them to return, not because they have committed an unforgivable sin, but because that have made a educated decision to reject God's salvation and would not return. This does however show that even when achieving such heights in God and the knowledge of Him you still have free will to walk away from your salvation if you choose to, and proves that the doctrine of OSAS/Eternal Security is false.
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#29
#29
A better question for those of you that adhere to the OSAS doctrine, rather than what is the point of no return, is can you turn from God after salvation? Better yet, are you now living in a backslidden condition without even realizing it? Do you care more about you own life, cares, wants, lusts than about serving God? Have you placed yourself above God? If so you have fallen away and are in desperate need of repentance.
 
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Baptistrw

Guest
#30
#30
onwingsaseagles said:
I agree it seems to say that once you turn from Christ is is impossible to retrun, but I also think there are some stipulations for this impossibility to return to kick in. You would have had to have...
#1 have been enlightened to the truth (all believers have done this)
#2 have tasted the heavenly gift (this proves that they have been saved, because salvation is the heavenly gift)
#3 been partakers of the Holy Ghost ( not all believers have done this)
#4 have tasted the good word of God (I believe this come from m7ature knowledge of the truth and the consequence of turning away, which most believers 'IMO'' have come to this mature knowledge)
#5 Seen, tasted understood the powers of the word to come. (this comes from a prophetic gift or and full understanding of eschatology, I would say most believers have not achieve this)

I believe those that have achieved all 5 of these above stipulations are the ones that if they turn from God it would be impossible for them to return, not because they have committed an unforgivable sin, but because that have made a educated decision to reject God's salvation and would not return. This does however show that even when achieving such heights in God and the knowledge of Him you still have free will to walk away from your salvation if you choose to, and proves that the doctrine of OSAS/Eternal Security is false.
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Every Christian receives the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost) at the moment we believe. So we're all partakers of Him. I would agree with the rest of what you said however. Those stipulations are those of every one who truly believes in Christ. Not some "super Christians". So when Jesus said those who have eternal life will never perish, was he mistaken?
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#31
#31
Baptistrw said:
Every Christian receives the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost) at the moment we believe. So we're all partakers of Him. I would agree with the rest of what you said however. Those stipulations are those of every one who truly believes in Christ. Not some "super Christians". So when Jesus said those who have eternal life will never perish, was he mistaken?
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There are believers that do not understand the full Judgment of God nor have had revelations of the world to come. Not all Christians have reached the knowledge needed to turn from Christ and not return. However Hebrews 6:4-6 proves beyond any shadow of any doubt that you can turn from Christ once receiving salvation, no matter how ''Holy'' you seem to be.
 
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Baptistrw

Guest
#32
#32
Ok, you avoided my question again. I'm done wasting my time.
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#33
#33
Baptistrw said:
Ok, you avoided my question again. I'm done wasting my time.
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Yes you are wasting your time, what you should be doing is learning truth, instead of ignoring what the Bible teaches us, because you have been indoctrinated to think other wise.
 
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carpetmanswife

Guest
#34
#34
lol ......wow and i was enjoying this *shrugs* sorry im human :p
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#35
#35
I was enjoying it as well, it is so easy to debate against things like Eternal Security and pretrib rapture, because the Bible itself is so obviously against these false doctrines.
 
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WhereToGo

Guest
#36
#36
What one person reads as an obvious interpretation may be the complete opposite of what another person reads as an obvious interpretation of the same verse. Remember true Scriptural truth comes only from God. Reasoning doesn't always lead to a correct interpretation. Leaning on our own understanding is a recipe for disaster and failure.

1 Corinthians 2:14, "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#37
#37
WhereToGo said:
What one person reads as an obvious interpretation may be the complete opposite of what another person reads as an obvious interpretation of the same verse. Remember true Scriptural truth comes only from God. Reasoning doesn't always lead to a correct interpretation. Leaning on our own understanding is a recipe for disaster and failure.

1 Corinthians 2:14, "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
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I totally agree with you all revelation come from God. However when scripture says God can and will cut us off if we do not continue in His goodness, then someone who comes to the conclusion that God will not cut us off was not led to that conclusion through the Spirit seeing as how that conclusion opposes God's own words.
 
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Baptistrw

Guest
#38
#38
I had an article I was attempting to post but it kept cutting me off... so frustrating... I put it on my blog if anyone is interested... www.raymondwilfong.blogspot.com

If I can figure out how to get it on here without it being cut off I'll post it.
 
Hansa

Hansa

Junior Member
#39
Feb 15, 2006
27
0
3
#39
eternal life starts the moment u accept jesus christ.
 
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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#40
#40
Hansa said:
eternal life starts the moment u accept jesus christ.
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Can you give scriptural support for that statement and if it is true then what do you do with these verses.

Matthew 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Revelation 2:26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations.
 
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