Triadic Reality (a discussion between oldhermit and Kenisis)
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My, MY, I had not a clue that you are this smart OH. Very Impressive, I love it.
Oh, and Ken I am sure you are inteligent as well.
When I look at OH picture I see an Farmer.....LoL With a Fu man chew
Oh, and Ken I am sure you are inteligent as well.
When I look at OH picture I see an Farmer.....LoL With a Fu man chew
Well I have read the thread and now I would like to start to respond in piecemeal.
I agree with you about the 2 worlds. I believe there is a material world, and I believe there is an eternal plane. I would be willing to even use your star treck word "continuum" as the total of both worlds.
I believe that revelation is given from God who (dwells in the eternal plane) to man (who dwells in the mat. world). That revelation is found in the Bible. Revelation in the Bible are instructions and commandments and information about God to help man understand God and the eternal plane as well as man and his material world.
I believe that even though we have a lot of revelation in the Bible, and to a certain respect it grants us a look into the eternal plane, we still can not understand God fully.
I also believe that we came from the eternal plane and that the material world was prepared for only one reason and that was for man. It was prepared to give man the experience of the material world and we will not have that full knowledge of God until we are resurrected and taken back into the eternal plane to be with God again, then we will start and finally receive a fullness of knowledge about God our Father.
I agree with you about the 2 worlds. I believe there is a material world, and I believe there is an eternal plane. I would be willing to even use your star treck word "continuum" as the total of both worlds.
I believe that revelation is given from God who (dwells in the eternal plane) to man (who dwells in the mat. world). That revelation is found in the Bible. Revelation in the Bible are instructions and commandments and information about God to help man understand God and the eternal plane as well as man and his material world.
I believe that even though we have a lot of revelation in the Bible, and to a certain respect it grants us a look into the eternal plane, we still can not understand God fully.
I also believe that we came from the eternal plane and that the material world was prepared for only one reason and that was for man. It was prepared to give man the experience of the material world and we will not have that full knowledge of God until we are resurrected and taken back into the eternal plane to be with God again, then we will start and finally receive a fullness of knowledge about God our Father.
All of the communication from the eternal plane to the material world has been done thru prophets of God. God reveals to prophets, prophets write down the word of God, ordinary people have the chance to read the word of God and know what it takes to be saved again into the eternal plane.
So for thousands of years God has had prophets on the earth to relay what God wants man to know.
The last time I can go back in history and find a prophet receiveing information from God is John the Revelator on the isle of Patmos. That was approximately 1900 years ago.
Where are our prophets today? Why in this most crucial period of time do we not have a Moses to lead and guide us with help from the eternal plane?
So for thousands of years God has had prophets on the earth to relay what God wants man to know.
The last time I can go back in history and find a prophet receiveing information from God is John the Revelator on the isle of Patmos. That was approximately 1900 years ago.
Where are our prophets today? Why in this most crucial period of time do we not have a Moses to lead and guide us with help from the eternal plane?
This is the function of the written word. The Word of God in the form of scripture, whether old or new testament stands as the surface form of the absolute intelligence of God. All revelation has been given and received in the form of the written text. This is the beginning message of the Hebrew writer.
E. Jesus, the Final Spokesman of Deity, 2.
1. The writer uses the phrase “in these last days” to present a contrast. This is a defining time of change marked by the introduction of the Son into human history. The source of knowledge is still the same God; but the mode of communication is different. “The Last Days.” This represents the close of an era involving three things, The close of the Jewish economy, the fulfillment of the prophets’ message, and the beginning of the reign of Messiah.
a. The close of the Jewish economy. The last days brought the fulfillment of the Law of Moses. Everything that the Jews held dear is now changed.
* All of their sacrifices were now rendered null and void. They have seen their realization in the sacrifice of Jesus, 9:11-15.
* The earthly tabernacle with its altar and sanctuary is now empty of the presence of God, 8:1-2.
* The Law of Moses was fulfilled and taken out of the way, 8:6.
* The priesthood which served as the mediator between God and man is now obsolete, superseded by the High Priest of a new order, 9:11,15.
* The scepter of the kingdom has now passed to the true King of kings, 1:8. This is the beginning of the reign of Messiah. As a nation, Israel and Judah had been divided for about 950 years since the reign of Rehoboam and Jeroboam. Now, under Messiah, these two nations find unity again as one nation under a new King.
b. The end of the prophetic era. The message spoken through the prophets has now become reality. There is a new spokesman.
2. “Has spoken” - λαλήσας
a. This is point action. God has spoken to us in a specific point in time in the past. The action is complete and God is finished speaking. The full revelation of God has been given through this Spokesman and no other revelation will be given. There represents finality and fulfillment. That was spoken stands as having been spoken and cannot be altered or overturned.
b. This marks the division of the two eras. The readers of this letter were witnesses to the close of the time of the prophets and the beginning of a more direct avenue of revelation.
* The first era of revelation was governed by what had been received through the prophets. This is important yet insufficient/incomplete/limited in time/it needs something else. This meant:
- Limited information. Isaiah 28:9-11, Numbers 12:6-8.
- Limited outreach – To the fathers
- Different mode – Through the prophets
* The second era of revelation is spoken through the Son. “Has spoken to us in Son.” This message to us is continuous, sufficient, and will need nothing else. This means:
- Full revelation. Ephesians 3:3-9.
- Privileged access. We are shown what the fathers were not privileged to see.
- Unlimited outreach. It is for all men, Acts 2:39, Rev.5:9.
3. “To us.” God is the author of both covenants. The same God who spoke to the fathers through the prophets has now spoken to us through Jesus. No further revelation will be given than that which comes through the son.
4. “In Son.” - εν υιω – There is a vastly different relationship that exists between God and the Spokesman of these last days than could be seen in the prophets. While the prophets were exclusively men and nothing more, this Spokesman is himself God. This lays stress to the greater importance of the new message to which the Hebrew writer will admonish us in chapter two verses 2-3 to “give the more earnest heed.”
E. Jesus, the Final Spokesman of Deity, 2.
1. The writer uses the phrase “in these last days” to present a contrast. This is a defining time of change marked by the introduction of the Son into human history. The source of knowledge is still the same God; but the mode of communication is different. “The Last Days.” This represents the close of an era involving three things, The close of the Jewish economy, the fulfillment of the prophets’ message, and the beginning of the reign of Messiah.
a. The close of the Jewish economy. The last days brought the fulfillment of the Law of Moses. Everything that the Jews held dear is now changed.
* All of their sacrifices were now rendered null and void. They have seen their realization in the sacrifice of Jesus, 9:11-15.
* The earthly tabernacle with its altar and sanctuary is now empty of the presence of God, 8:1-2.
* The Law of Moses was fulfilled and taken out of the way, 8:6.
* The priesthood which served as the mediator between God and man is now obsolete, superseded by the High Priest of a new order, 9:11,15.
* The scepter of the kingdom has now passed to the true King of kings, 1:8. This is the beginning of the reign of Messiah. As a nation, Israel and Judah had been divided for about 950 years since the reign of Rehoboam and Jeroboam. Now, under Messiah, these two nations find unity again as one nation under a new King.
b. The end of the prophetic era. The message spoken through the prophets has now become reality. There is a new spokesman.
2. “Has spoken” - λαλήσας
a. This is point action. God has spoken to us in a specific point in time in the past. The action is complete and God is finished speaking. The full revelation of God has been given through this Spokesman and no other revelation will be given. There represents finality and fulfillment. That was spoken stands as having been spoken and cannot be altered or overturned.
b. This marks the division of the two eras. The readers of this letter were witnesses to the close of the time of the prophets and the beginning of a more direct avenue of revelation.
* The first era of revelation was governed by what had been received through the prophets. This is important yet insufficient/incomplete/limited in time/it needs something else. This meant:
- Limited information. Isaiah 28:9-11, Numbers 12:6-8.
- Limited outreach – To the fathers
- Different mode – Through the prophets
* The second era of revelation is spoken through the Son. “Has spoken to us in Son.” This message to us is continuous, sufficient, and will need nothing else. This means:
- Full revelation. Ephesians 3:3-9.
- Privileged access. We are shown what the fathers were not privileged to see.
- Unlimited outreach. It is for all men, Acts 2:39, Rev.5:9.
3. “To us.” God is the author of both covenants. The same God who spoke to the fathers through the prophets has now spoken to us through Jesus. No further revelation will be given than that which comes through the son.
4. “In Son.” - εν υιω – There is a vastly different relationship that exists between God and the Spokesman of these last days than could be seen in the prophets. While the prophets were exclusively men and nothing more, this Spokesman is himself God. This lays stress to the greater importance of the new message to which the Hebrew writer will admonish us in chapter two verses 2-3 to “give the more earnest heed.”
