Triadic Reality (a discussion between oldhermit and Kenisis)

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Well oldhermit I finally found you. I will now read thru the thread and respond a little later. Thanks
 
My, MY, I had not a clue that you are this smart OH. Very Impressive, I love it.

Oh, and Ken I am sure you are inteligent as well.

When I look at OH picture I see an Farmer.....LoL With a Fu man chew;)
 
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parablepete said:
My, MY, I had not a clue that you are this smart OH. Very Impressive, I love it.

Oh, and Ken I am sure you are inteligent as well.

When I look at OH picture I see an Farmer.....LoL With a Fu man chew;)
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Just so you will know, this is a very old thread and Kenisis is not longer with us. And yes, Ken was quite intelligent.
 
The will of God is an abstract of ideas that are represented to man in the construct of language. Language, as an extended property of God, is a conveyance framed into the grammatical structure of the biblical text and serves as a bridge which links the two worlds. It is through language that revelation is brought to bear upon human intelligence. This revelation is external to the temporal plain and serves to connect the mind of man on the material side of the continuum to the mind of God. Man must then bring this revelation to bear upon the material world to properly understand the nature of his relationship within the continuum. Revelation is given to man as a point of reference by which to interpret his world. Revelation shows that the material universe is subject to the will and control of God. The idea of prayer is certainly based on this principle. Man can never properly understand human history, events, or experiences until he is able to see them from the revealed mind of God. When man removes revelation from the equation, he loses contact with the mind of God. When this happens, man has no point of reference by which to correctly interpret his experiences. Without revelation, man is unable to know that reality is more than that which he is able to experience empirically. Since this is true, it seems to me this would have a rather profound influence on how we address issues of ethics and morality.
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Well I have read the thread and now I would like to start to respond in piecemeal.

I agree with you about the 2 worlds. I believe there is a material world, and I believe there is an eternal plane. I would be willing to even use your star treck word "continuum" as the total of both worlds.

I believe that revelation is given from God who (dwells in the eternal plane) to man (who dwells in the mat. world). That revelation is found in the Bible. Revelation in the Bible are instructions and commandments and information about God to help man understand God and the eternal plane as well as man and his material world.

I believe that even though we have a lot of revelation in the Bible, and to a certain respect it grants us a look into the eternal plane, we still can not understand God fully.

I also believe that we came from the eternal plane and that the material world was prepared for only one reason and that was for man. It was prepared to give man the experience of the material world and we will not have that full knowledge of God until we are resurrected and taken back into the eternal plane to be with God again, then we will start and finally receive a fullness of knowledge about God our Father.
 
johnluke said:
Well I have read the thread and now I would like to start to respond in piecemeal.

I agree with you about the 2 worlds. I believe there is a material world, and I believe there is an eternal plane. I would be willing to even use your star treck word "continuum" as the total of both worlds.

I believe that revelation is given from God who (dwells in the eternal plane) to man (who dwells in the mat. world). That revelation is found in the Bible. Revelation in the Bible are instructions and commandments and information about God to help man understand God and the eternal plane as well as man and his material world.

I believe that even though we have a lot of revelation in the Bible, and to a certain respect it grants us a look into the eternal plane, we still can not understand God fully.

I also believe that we came from the eternal plane and that the material world was prepared for only one reason and that was for man. It was prepared to give man the experience of the material world and we will not have that full knowledge of God until we are resurrected and taken back into the eternal plane to be with God again, then we will start and finally receive a fullness of knowledge about God our Father.
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Very well said.
 
What impresses me most is that you read the entire thread. If you like, I can post the rest of the material that I did not post in my conversation with Ken that deals with the deity of Jesus.
 
Yes, I remember reading this thread a few months ago.
Actually, I've read about 95% of the stuff you've posted... You're thorough and pretty neat brother. :)
 
oldhermit said:
What impresses me most is that you read the entire thread. If you like, I can post the rest of the material that I did not post in my conversation with Ken that deals with the deity of Jesus.
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Let me continue to respond to what I have read by peicemeal and when that is finished we can go on. Thanks
 
This continuum is presented in scripture and reveals how God brings His influences to bear upon the material world. God stands outside this set of determined relations and manipulates and suspends them according to His will. We are all familiar with such biblical examples as the flood, the crossing of the Red Sea, the stilling of the sun, various accounts of resurrections, etc…. Every time we read these examples we are reminded of the power of God to manipulate things in the material deminsion to bring about His will.

The book of Revelation demonstrates the power of God even upon the most desperate of human circumstances. Chapter one is an example of how God uses linking agents to communicate His revelation to the seven Churches. The revelation began in the mind of God on the eternal plain. It was then given to Jesus who in turn sent His angel with this message which was then delivered to the apostle John. This revelation was then given to the messengers of the seven churches and ultimately distributed throughout the Church. It was through this revelation from God that the churches were able to properly context the events and circumstances of their lives during an era of terrible persecution. How does one decide to allow his family to die rather than to renounce Jesus as Lord? Where is the ethic in trading their lives for your convictions? How does one determine the rightness of this behavior? Unless these Christians were able to context their situation in the light of God’s will and design, they could ever have endured such experiences. This revelation from God produced such a confidence in them that the outcome of their faith would not be determined by their circumstances. Without this revelation, they could not know that their experiences of persecution were nothing more than what the apostle Paul clled "light momentary afflictions" when compared to the hope that awaited them in the eternal plain.

Hebrews chapters one and two explain how God has presented His revelation to man since the beginning. Again, God uses language as the vehicle to convey the abstract ideas of His will to the mind of man. Revelation transcends both time and space through the conveyance of language. It is through the grammatical structure of the text that truth is revealed, not in the historical framework. This fact makes scripture both equidistant and equicultural to all generations. When we approach the text strictly from the historical perspective, we limit the significance of the message to the confines of time and space. This is what happens when man brings human intelligence to bear upon the text rather than allowing the grammatical structure of the text to influence the mind. In the past, God spoke to the prophets. What God spoke was then delivered the fathers who heard. In these last days God speaks through the Son to the apostles who in turd recorded the words of God for us. Through the grammatical structure this revealed message will always mean the same thing to us as it did to those to whom it was initially delivered. It will never change based upon varying cultures or personal human experiences. It is through this channel of grammatical revelation that the readers were able to interpret their own history. They could see how Jesus is the reality of what had only been seen by them in shadows and types throughout periods of their history. From the vantage point of their history, the gospel was a mystery. It is only through revelation that the historical context can be understood. History then, cannot be mapped onto revelation to arrive at an understanding of truth. Rather, revelation must be mapped onto historical events to understand how God was working to bring about human redemption.
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All of the communication from the eternal plane to the material world has been done thru prophets of God. God reveals to prophets, prophets write down the word of God, ordinary people have the chance to read the word of God and know what it takes to be saved again into the eternal plane.

So for thousands of years God has had prophets on the earth to relay what God wants man to know.

The last time I can go back in history and find a prophet receiveing information from God is John the Revelator on the isle of Patmos. That was approximately 1900 years ago.

Where are our prophets today? Why in this most crucial period of time do we not have a Moses to lead and guide us with help from the eternal plane?
 
johnluke said:
All of the communication from the eternal plane to the material world has been done thru prophets of God. God reveals to prophets, prophets write down the word of God, ordinary people have the chance to read the word of God and know what it takes to be saved again into the eternal plane.

So for thousands of years God has had prophets on the earth to relay what God wants man to know.

The last time I can go back in history and find a prophet receiveing information from God is John the Revelator on the isle of Patmos. That was approximately 1900 years ago.

Where are our prophets today? Why in this most crucial period of time do we not have a Moses to lead and guide us with help from the eternal plane?
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This is the function of the written word. The Word of God in the form of scripture, whether old or new testament stands as the surface form of the absolute intelligence of God. All revelation has been given and received in the form of the written text. This is the beginning message of the Hebrew writer.

E. Jesus, the Final Spokesman of Deity, 2.

1. The writer uses the phrase “in these last days” to present a contrast. This is a defining time of change marked by the introduction of the Son into human history. The source of knowledge is still the same God; but the mode of communication is different. “The Last Days.” This represents the close of an era involving three things, The close of the Jewish economy, the fulfillment of the prophets’ message, and the beginning of the reign of Messiah.
a. The close of the Jewish economy. The last days brought the fulfillment of the Law of Moses. Everything that the Jews held dear is now changed.
* All of their sacrifices were now rendered null and void. They have seen their realization in the sacrifice of Jesus, 9:11-15.
* The earthly tabernacle with its altar and sanctuary is now empty of the presence of God, 8:1-2.
* The Law of Moses was fulfilled and taken out of the way, 8:6.
* The priesthood which served as the mediator between God and man is now obsolete, superseded by the High Priest of a new order, 9:11,15.
* The scepter of the kingdom has now passed to the true King of kings, 1:8. This is the beginning of the reign of Messiah. As a nation, Israel and Judah had been divided for about 950 years since the reign of Rehoboam and Jeroboam. Now, under Messiah, these two nations find unity again as one nation under a new King.
b. The end of the prophetic era. The message spoken through the prophets has now become reality. There is a new spokesman.

2. “Has spoken” - λαλήσας
a. This is point action. God has spoken to us in a specific point in time in the past. The action is complete and God is finished speaking. The full revelation of God has been given through this Spokesman and no other revelation will be given. There represents finality and fulfillment. That was spoken stands as having been spoken and cannot be altered or overturned.
b. This marks the division of the two eras. The readers of this letter were witnesses to the close of the time of the prophets and the beginning of a more direct avenue of revelation.
* The first era of revelation was governed by what had been received through the prophets. This is important yet insufficient/incomplete/limited in time/it needs something else. This meant:
- Limited information. Isaiah 28:9-11, Numbers 12:6-8.
- Limited outreach – To the fathers
- Different mode – Through the prophets
* The second era of revelation is spoken through the Son. “Has spoken to us in Son.” This message to us is continuous, sufficient, and will need nothing else. This means:
- Full revelation. Ephesians 3:3-9.
- Privileged access. We are shown what the fathers were not privileged to see.
- Unlimited outreach. It is for all men, Acts 2:39, Rev.5:9.

3. “To us.” God is the author of both covenants. The same God who spoke to the fathers through the prophets has now spoken to us through Jesus. No further revelation will be given than that which comes through the son.

4. “In Son.” - εν υιω – There is a vastly different relationship that exists between God and the Spokesman of these last days than could be seen in the prophets. While the prophets were exclusively men and nothing more, this Spokesman is himself God. This lays stress to the greater importance of the new message to which the Hebrew writer will admonish us in chapter two verses 2-3 to “give the more earnest heed.”
 
I wonder what happened to Ken. One day I noticed his account had been closed by admin but he had not been banned that I could tell. Does anyone have any info on this?
 
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