Dangers of Feminism

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A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Well I did listen to the video and read statements attributed to her online and if those statements are true then, they are the basis for my assertions Amber. It has nothing to do with her makeup.

Rather, she makes all the classic liberal feminist mistakes (e.g. deconstruction of the truth in order to serve her own interests, reinvention of the meta-narrative, the demise of the text, the dominion of therapy, the decline of authority, the displacement of morality, etc..). Her entire approach to interpretation begins less with the biblical text and more with the concerns of feminism as a worldview. You may want to read my other posts in this thread and think about all that I've said.

Furthermore, biblical imagery is imagery. I see that she confuses this quite a bit in her "theology" and this has produced some interesting heretical statements.

Feminists have long understood the power of naming and renaming in order to reimagine our world in keeping with their notion of gender equality. But what is considerably more troubling than the tendentious, manipulative use of language by those pursuing these sociopolitical agendas is the fact that the very notion of truth has largely become a casualty of their postmodern thought and discourse.

Truth is no longer “the” truth, in Jesus’ terms who claimed to be “the truth” (John 14:6). Rather, feminists conceive it as "feminist truth"... another different but legitimate way of perceiving reality. Hence truth is simply their preferred, culturally conditioned, socially constructed reinvented version of reality rather than the "true truth" as Francis Schaeffer called truth.

Schaeffer understand that Christians were to emphatically affirm the possibility and reality of truth by claiming to know “true truth,” not merely subjective, relative “truth” that can be reinvented to fit modern, post-modern, and radical sociopolitical agendas.

We do not believe that the Christian gospel is a socially constructed truth that can be reinvented to accomplish the political agenda of feminists, homosexuals, etc... but rather it is objectively, historically, and universally true and true in the manner in which it was given sans-reinvention.

As Schaeffer lamented, for modern man, “truth as truth is gone, and . . . relativism reigns.” Schaeffer understood that once truth is torn down in our institutions of higher learning, it is only a matter of time before this will trickle down into our everyday lives: exactly what we see happening in this video you posted.

This idea (e.g. deconstructionism) that every text must be deconstructed because every text contains a subtext of oppressive intentions on the part of the author in the name of liberation subjects the Bible to radical reinterpretation, often with little or no regard for the plain meaning of the text or the clear intention of the human author who is asserted to be suppressive, patriarchal, heterosexist, homophobic, “speciesist,” morally blighted, etc... deformed by ideological bias resulting in the fanciful and even ridiculous interpretations which are then celebrated as affirming and therefore authentic.

It's nonsense for the Bible is not merely the words of people, it IS the Word of God.

Postmodernism’s insistence on the blightedness of the author is inherently fallacious and antisupernaturalistic as applied to God's Word.

What I'm seeing is a lot of counterfeit subversive reinvention of God's revealed truth by groups engaging in the behavior to further their sociopolitical agendas .

One of the reasons why I keep repeating this statement from "The New Book of Theology" on the restoration of covenant mutuality in Christ http://christianchat.com/christian-family-forum/79897-dangers-feminism-16.html#post1437328 is because it highlights how widely liberal feminists miss the mark.

It is true that the entire biblical message, including that about women, revolves not around patriarchalism or egalitarianism but around God’s covenant and His redemptive dealings with humanity and the creation. The closest thing to a biblical definition of who we are, man or woman, is our creation as ‘image of God’ (Gn. 1:27). This ‘definition’ revolves around our common calling, in unity with one another and the creation, to serve God in obligation to him and to one another.

However, this calling is beyond both feminism and patriarchalism, to life in covenant; and in that covenant gender roles are clearly defined.

Understand, those biblically defined gender roles are NOT what liberal feminists are asserting.

And just for clarity, the account of Barak (plus Deborah and Jael) in the book of Judges records the careers of twelve judges in all: Othniel, Ehud, Shamgar, Barak, Gideon, Tola, Jair, Jephthah, Ibzan, Elon, Abdon and Samson.

Deborah and Jael both play very significant roles in the Barak episode, and Deborah is even said to have ‘led’ (lit. ‘judged’) Israel (4:4–5), but in terms of the overall design of the book, her ministry must be seen as essentially an account of Barak’s career.

Peace :).


WOW! Some of yall have called her a heretic, a false prophet, made fun of her makeup, insinuated she is possessed with demons, and 2 of yall admitted you did not listen to the video.

As far as her makeup goes, makeup is not unbiblical (Ezekiel 16:1-14). Do you attack all women who wear make up? Is it the actual colors she chose that you disprove of, and were you there watching how much she applied? Do you know what her skin looks like underneath? Do you know her scars? But that's not what this thread is about.

I sure hope you wouldn't treat Deborah this way. A leader of the army, prophet, and judge of Israel. Or Huldah. Or Sheerah. Or Phoebe.
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
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And just for clarity, the account of Barak (plus Deborah and Jael) in the book of Judges records the careers of twelve judges in all: Othniel, Ehud, Shamgar, Barak, Gideon, Tola, Jair, Jephthah, Ibzan, Elon, Abdon and Samson.

Deborah and Jael both play very significant roles in the Barak episode, and Deborah is even said to have ‘led’ (lit. ‘judged’) Israel (4:4–5), but in terms of the overall design of the book, her ministry must be seen as essentially an account of Barak’s career.

Peace :).
No. Judges 4 -5 is about Deborah, and we know this because she is mentioned first. It may not mean so much today, but it certainly was important then. Barak is a player in HER story. It starts with Deborah and ends with Barak and Deborah TOGETHER praising God's work through Jael. It is an incredibly female-centric story. Now who's rewriting the Bible with a gender bias?
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
My statement on Deborah is accurate in terms of structure and theme regarding the book of Judges which is a well-rounded literary unit with a very definite structure and clearly developed themes.

However my point is minor in comparison to the thesis of my last post and not intended to take anything away whatsoever from Deborah's ministry and for that reason I'm not inclined to argue the point further.

Peace :)

No. Judges 4 -5 is about Deborah, and we know this because she is mentioned first. It may not mean so much today, but it certainly was important then. Barak is a player in HER story. It starts with Deborah and ends with Barak and Deborah TOGETHER praising God's work through Jael. It is an incredibly female-centric story. Now who's rewriting the Bible with a gender bias?
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,746
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My statement on Deborah is accurate in terms of structure and theme regarding the book of Judges which is a well-rounded literary unit with a very definite structure and clearly developed themes.

However my point is minor in comparison to the thesis of my last post and not intended to take anything away whatsoever from Deborah's ministry and for that reason I'm not inclined to argue the point further.

Peace :)
I'm not inclined to just let grossly inaccurate statements lie. The theme of Judges is the cycle of sin and deliverance in a framework of the prominent judges, Deborah being one of them. So the story is inarguably about Deborah.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
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WOW! Some of yall have called her a heretic, a false prophet, made fun of her makeup, insinuated she is possessed with demons, and 2 of yall admitted you did not listen to the video.

As far as her makeup goes, makeup is not unbiblical (Ezekiel 16:1-14). Do you attack all women who wear make up? Is it the actual colors she chose that you disprove of, and were you there watching how much she applied? Do you know what her skin looks like underneath? Do you know her scars? But that's not what this thread is about.

I sure hope you wouldn't treat Deborah this way. A leader of the army, prophet, and judge of Israel. Or Huldah. Or Sheerah. Or Phoebe.
I have nothing against makeup. I wear makeup, but there is a thing called too much. Makeup should never be used to cover up someone natural beauty that God gave them.

Phoebe was a deaconass aka SERVANT. Theres no mentioned of her taking authority over men.

There is no evidence that Huldah publically preached, and the only men that went to her went to her in private.

Theres also very little about Sheerah in the bible, and what is said about her to defend feminism is more assumption than anything

Deborahs rose to a leadership role because there were no qualified men. Using Deborah to defend female authority is also a pointless argument considering the OT is not function as a document of authority under the NT testament system. I it was the animal sacrifices, and polygamy would be allowed. There also isnt enough evidence of Deborah and her role to cmpare it to the role of a modern preacher. The fact she she was also the ONLY women judge shows this isn't normal under Gods rule.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
I suppose it's inevitable that any discussion on feminism with regards to Christianity will turn to the account of Deborah in the book of Judges.

We may have to coin a new Internet adage here on CC. "As an online discussion on feminism with respect to Christianity grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Deborah approaches 1."

:p
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
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I suppose it's inevitable that any discussion on feminism with regards to Christianity will turn to the account of Deborah in the book of Judges.

We may have to coin a new Internet adage here on CC. "As an online discussion on feminism with respect to Christianity grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Deborah approaches 1."

:p
You have to admit that is among the most relevant passages that blows holes in the misogynistic heresy that women cannot have authority over men for any reason.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Deborah's authority was clearly given to her by God. This; however, should not be extrapolated to women usurping authority over men (1 Timothy 2:12) where authority to men has been given by God.

The pastorals give serious attention to the respective roles and authority of men and women and seek to put in place a gendered church order in keeping with scriptural norms (and the period's wider cultural patterns) which may reasonably be seen both to protect the church against disintegration from powerful centrifugal forces (examples are many including Gnosticism, liberal feminism, post-modern relativism, homosexual revisionism, etc...) and to maintain a credible witness to gospel truth in the society at large rooted in a stable historical normative morality.

Interpreters may be right to see here the beginnings of the institutionalization and patriarchalization of the church and a decline from apostolic equality in the time of Jesus; however, this may not be the fairest way to characterize either the Jesus movement (with its core of twelve male apostles) or what the Pastorals have in mind.

For in their own social context, the issues dealt with have much more to do with the disciplined ordering of the household of God in the face of serious threats to its common life and public reputation.


You have to admit that is among the most relevant passages that blows holes in the misogynistic heresy that women cannot have authority over men for any reason.
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,746
45
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Deborah's authority was clearly given to her by God. This; however, should not be extrapolated to women usurping authority over men (1 Timothy 2:12) where authority to men has been given by God.

The pastorals give serious attention to the respective roles and authority of men and women and seek to put in place a gendered church order in keeping with scriptural norms (and the period's wider cultural patterns) which may reasonably be seen both to protect the church against disintegration from powerful centrifugal forces (examples are many including Gnosticism, liberal feminism, post-modern relativism, homosexual revisionism, etc...) and to maintain a credible witness to gospel truth in the society at large rooted in a stable historical normative morality.

Interpreters may be right to see here the beginnings of the institutionalization and patriarchalization of the church and a decline from apostolic equality in the time of Jesus; however, this may not be the fairest way to characterize either the Jesus movement (with its core of twelve male apostles) or what the Pastorals have in mind.

For in their own social context, the issues dealt with have much more to do with the disciplined ordering of the household of God in the face of serious threats to its common life and public reputation.
Usurping to take control unilaterally, usually by force. That is wrong for either gender.

If God gave authority to Deborah, what changed so that a phallus has become a prerequisite to leadership?
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Would you be so kind, for my benefit, to reframe your question in a more scholarly manner please? I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are asking within the context of my last post (repeated for clarity):

"Deborah's authority was clearly given to her by God. This; however, should not be extrapolated to women usurping authority over men (1 Timothy 2:12) where authority to men has been given by God.

The pastorals give serious attention to the respective roles and authority of men and women and seek to put in place a gendered church order in keeping with scriptural norms (and the period's wider cultural patterns) which may reasonably be seen both to protect the church against disintegration from powerful centrifugal forces (examples are many including Gnosticism, liberal feminism, post-modern relativism, homosexual revisionism, etc...) and to maintain a credible witness to gospel truth in the society at large rooted in a stable historical normative morality.

Interpreters may be right to see here the beginnings of the institutionalization and patriarchalization of the church and a decline from apostolic equality in the time of Jesus; however, this may not be the fairest way to characterize either the Jesus movement (with its core of twelve male apostles) or what the Pastorals have in mind.

For in their own social context, the issues dealt with have much more to do with the disciplined ordering of the household of God in the face of serious threats to its common life and public reputation."


If God gave authority to Deborah, what changed so that a phallus has become a prerequisite to leadership?
 
B

biscuit

Guest
NIV 2011
...the Feminist's Lesbian Bible!
by David J. Stewart
Jude 1:11, “Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.”
The new NIV 2011 (New International Version 2011) has been released online, now on it's way to Zondervan publishers to become toilet paper. And if you love the Lord Jesus Christ that's what you'll do with the NIV 2011.

The word “men” appears in the King James Bible's Old Testament 2416 times, and 806 in the New Testament. That's 3222 times that the King James Bible mentions the word “men.” But in the feminist perversion of the NIV 2011, you'll only find the word “men” 1027 times in their entire Bible. Pretty sad huh?
The word “man” appears in the King James Bible's Old Testament 3105 times, and 1433 in the New Testament. That's 4538 times that the King James Bible mentions the word “man.” But in the feminist perversion of the NIV 2011, you'll only find the word “man” 1989 times in their entire Bible.
It's a feminist's dream come true! The NIV 2011 attacks the masculine authority of God, the ruling husband, and the authoritative preacher. There is no room for gender equality in Biblical Christianity when it comes to AUTHORITY.
The sad truth is that America has been overrun by feminists. Here's a couple quotes by infamous feminists:
“In my heart, I think a woman has two choices: either she's a feminist or a masochist.” —Gloria Steinem
“There never will be complete equality until women themselves help to make laws and elect lawmakers.” —Susan B. Anthony
That is the Devil talking ladies. Eve didn't like her restrictions either, so she bought into the Devil's lie of being “as gods” (Genesis 3:5). Feminists are placing themselves equal with God when they go against the Scriptures.
Feminists seek equality with authority, just as Lucifer, who said in Isaiah 14:14, “I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH.” Feminists want equality of authority like Lucifer. It is evil. The Bible teaches that a husband is to “rule over” his wife (Genesis 3:16), and women are to “be in silence” publicly in the presence of men as evidence of their obedience to their husband (1st Timothy 2:12).
This is the “meek and quiet spirit” that 1st Peter 3:4 teaches for Christian women to have.
A meddling, gossiping, loudmouth, blame-shifting, accusing, lewd, divorcing, boisterous woman is clear evidence of a rebellious feminist black heart against God and God-ordained masculine authority. Like it or not, God says, It's My way or the highway... the HIGHWAY TO HELL! (Matthew 7:13-14). You either come to God the FATHER through God the SON for salvation, or else you'll burn in the torments and fires of Hell for all eternity (John 14:6). Feminists hate Biblical Christianity because they refuse to come to a masculine God to be saved.
Feminists are rebels against God. Feminism is a road to Hell (Proverb 5:5; 7:27; 9:18). Just as homosexuals are sinfully trying to merge God's unconditional love with gay rights, so have feminists merged human rights with feminist rights. No one has a right to be immoral. No one has a right to disobey God. A woman's place is Biblically IN THE HOME. 1st Timothy 5:14-15, “I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. For some are already turned aside after Satan.”
If you think that the King James Bible is not for you, then you are not right with God. I cannot express in words just how evil feminism is because it seeks equality of authority between man and woman in the home, in Church leadership, and in every other area of power; whereas God commands a wife to be in SUBJECTION to her own husband (1st Peter 3:1), and for women to keep silence in the churches (1st Corinthians 14:34), and for women not to usurp authority over men in any capacity (1st Timothy 2:12). For women to usurp authority is worldliness, heathendom, and rebellion against the Word of God. That's what a divorce is, a wife usurping authority over her husband, and using her marriage license as a weapon against her husband in court to go after everything he owns. It is evil beyond description in the sight of God.
The NIV 2011 is evil, catering to the homosexual agenda (which seeks to make men effeminate). By watering down and diminishing the masculinity of the Word of God in the NIV 2011, the Committee on Biblical Translation (CBT) has actually produced an effeminate and feminist Bible of the Devil. The NIV 2011 is straight out of the pits of Hell. The honest truth is that Americans have become so wicked, engrossed into feminism, that it is being used as a vehicle by which to further the homosexual agenda in our churches. With the NIV 2011 and such brainwashing propaganda as the vile 2009 movie, PRAYERS FOR BOBBY targeting our churches, it won't be long before most of America's churches are supportive of immoral gay rights.
As I've said often, and so say I again, no one has a right to commit immorality. Liberty is the freedom to BE wrong, not to DO wrong. No one is gay by birth. God doesn't make mistakes. Homosexuality is a CHOICE to sin, just as murderous abortion is a CHOICE to sin. Planned Parenthood is correct to call abortion a “choice,” but it is the wrong choice!
2nd Timothy 4:3, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears.”
Each progressive generation is becoming increasingly devoid of truth, courage and righteousness. America is a giant sewer of spiritual rot and maggots. Feminism is spiritual wickedness in high places, training women to pluck apart their own families. Proverb 14:1, “Every wise woman buildeth her house: but the foolish plucketh it down with her hands.” If you are a wise woman, then you will continue to use the time-proven, tested, and inspired King James Bible!
Women today are becoming lesbians, whether literally or by becoming a feminist (which is a mental lesbian). Women who want to usurp authority and be equal with men are lesbians in their minds. Feminists are mental homosexuals.
God is NOT into the gender-inclusive feminist/homosexual agenda of our time. It is wickedness in the sight of God. Read Proverb 14:2, “He that walketh in his uprightness feareth the LORD: but he that is perverse in his ways despiseth him.” Feminists and homosexuals absolutely despise the masculine King James Bible, viewing it as the bigot's Bible. No, it is God's holy Word, every Word of it! Romans 1:25 warned us that the wicked would change God's Word into a lie, “Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.”
By removing the word “men” in 2195 places, and by removing the word “man” in 2549 places, the NIV 2011 translators have misrepresented God's Word. The true Word of God is not gender-inclusive and does not fit man's sinful agendas. As Americans become more wicked and perverse, so does the demand for a Bible that is equality-conscious, gender-inclusive, homosexual-friendly, and a bunch of horse-dung.
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[HR][/HR]
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Usurping to take control unilaterally, usually by force. That is wrong for either gender.
The way we usually use 'usurp' one who has authority doesn't need to usurp it.

If God gave authority to Deborah, what changed so that a phallus has become a prerequisite to leadership?
Why are feminists so obsessed with that aspect of being male, that part of the anatomy, as evidenced by questions like this?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,093
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No. Judges 4 -5 is about Deborah, and we know this because she is mentioned first. It may not mean so much today, but it certainly was important then. Barak is a player in HER story. It starts with Deborah and ends with Barak and Deborah TOGETHER praising God's work through Jael. It is an incredibly female-centric story. Now who's rewriting the Bible with a gender bias?
Just an interesting point: Barak is mentioned in Hebrews 11, but not Deborah. I'm not knocking Deborah. It could have been because of Barak's military exploits ('subdued kingdoms.)

There is one female judge in the whole Old Testament, one evil queen who was actually de facto head of state (Athalia), and queen Esther, probably not head of state, but who brought about a great deliverance. Primarily, leadership was male, and Isaiah laments when women ruled the people and children oppressed them.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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WOW! Some of yall have called her a heretic, a false prophet, made fun of her makeup, insinuated she is possessed with demons, and 2 of yall admitted you did not listen to the video.
Were the ones who didn't watch the video the ones who made the accusations? I said I haven't watched it, but I didn't make any accusations about her.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Monica is a false teacher. I'm going to write a post demonstrating how the early church struggled with such female false teachers that were infiltrating the church with false doctrines lifted from early Gnosticism, pagan goddess mystery cults, etc... and why the pastorals are structured to negate this problem. I have the scholarly documentation right here.

In the meanwhile, enjoy this video an evangelical apologist made refuting one line of her heresy:

[video=youtube_share;3LQ1mqOCZ54]http://youtu.be/3LQ1mqOCZ54[/video]

Were the ones who didn't watch the video the ones who made the accusations? I said I haven't watched it, but I didn't make any accusations about her.
 
A

AmberGardner

Guest
Hebrews 4:5 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet he did not sin.
She never ever said that Jesus Christ wasn't a man. God in the FLESH. Born of Mary who gave him flesh. If you're going to listen to rumors you should make sure they're true.

Luke 1:35 The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
No matter what anyone says, this verse shows that 2 came together, and the result was a baby. (How unlesbian is that, huh? lol)

He will be called the SON OF GOD. Why? Because "The Holy Spirit (God) will will come on you, and the power of the Most High (God) will overshadow you."
 
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AmberGardner

Guest
My apologies, I was including you in that. I see you did not. (Presidente)
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Monica is a false teacher. I'm going to write a post demonstrating how the early church struggled with such female false teachers that were infiltrating the church with false doctrines lifted from early Gnosticism, pagan goddess mystery cults, etc... and why the pastorals are structured to negate this problem. I have the scholarly documentation right here.

In the meanwhile, enjoy this video an evangelical apologist made refuting one line of her heresy:

[video=youtube_share;3LQ1mqOCZ54]http://youtu.be/3LQ1mqOCZ54[/video]
What the guy quoted from Monica is indeed bizaar teaching.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
You're in denial about what this feminist is teaching. Rewatch the video (reposted below) and write down what she says. Here, I'll get you started. She states:

"And today we are going to look at what scripture has to say about our heavenly mother. Now most of us think that the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and she got pregnant but what it says OK is that the Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the most high will overshadow you. So again, we have the Holy Spirit which is the female part of God and the most high which is God the father and we see that they've come together and as a result of that a child is born and he is called the son of God."

She then goes on to say:

"Now that the Word of the Lord has come to you at this point, now that you know, the two spirits came together to make Jesus Christ..."

Etc... etc... etc...

Watch the whole video all the way through. This feminist is ALL screwed up and it's for exactly the reasons I've already specified in my previous posts in this thread.

What we find in Matthew and Luke is Mary conceiving without any form of intercourse through the agency of the Holy Spirit's power as when the Spirit of God hovered over the waters in Genesis creating life.

Specifically the verse is clear that the power, δυναμις (e.g. the miracle-working power) overshadows and biologically conceives a spiritually pre-existent Son (e.g. See Doctrine of the Trinity) without sex. That Christ is the eternal Son of God is clear from both Old and New Testaments (e.g. See Christology).

As Clarke's Bible commentary states:

"There is a plain allusion to the Spirit of God brooding over the face of the waters, to render them prolific, Genesis 1:2. The rudiments of the human nature of Christ was a real creation in the womb of the virgin, by the energy of the Spirit of God.

We may plainly perceive here, that the angel does not give the appellation of Son of God to the Divine nature of Christ; but to that holy person or thing, το ἁγιον, which was to be born of the virgin by the energy of the Holy Spirit."

The Geneva Study Bible put it like this:

"Now the birth of Jesus Christ was thus: His mother, Mary, that is, having been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit [singular]."

God doesn't have sex with Himself nor need to have sex with Himself to create a fetus and then insert a pre-existent person of the Godhead, to create Adam, or Eve, or to create biological life of any kind.

What nonsense this woman is purveying.

[video=youtube_share;3LQ1mqOCZ54]http://youtu.be/3LQ1mqOCZ54[/video]


No matter what anyone says, this verse shows that 2 came together, and the result was a baby.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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What I don't get when people try to expound on the Bible, is why some of them want to go out on a limb and come up with some 'out there' conclusion to sound cool when there is so many treasures that are right there in the passage.