DRINKING AND THE SCRIPTURES

[Kerry]

Come with me down to the rehab center. See how it has destroyed lives and marriages. Can anything good come from it?

 

[Angela53510]

And in Australia!

THE FACTS
• Drink driving remains a major contributor to fatalities and injuries on Australian roads, even though an illegal Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC) limit has been in place for over 25 years.
• During the 2007-2008 financial year, the Queensland Police Service conducted over 3 million breath tests and detected over 32,000 drink driving offences – representing an offence rate of approximately 1%.2
• A high proportion of repeat drink drivers have clinical alcohol dependence problems.3
• Casualty crash risk doubles when driving with an alcohol level just in excess of 0.05 BAC, and the risk of involvement in a fatal crash increases even more sharply.1
• There is evidence linking certain illegal drugs to elevated crash risk: though alcohol still makes a bigger contribution to the number of road deaths and injuries.1
How does alcohol affect me?
Alcohol is one of the most widely used drugs. It is a potent depressant which slows down the body by acting on the central nervous system, affecting both physical and
mental functioning. Excessive drinking can cause cognitive impairment, which can affect judgement, memory and reaction time.4 The time it takes to remove alcohol from the body can also impinge on work and driving performance. An individual can drink a large quantity of alcohol in the evening and still have alcohol present in his or her body the next day.
Drinking alcohol can affect drivers and the driving task by: • Slowing down the reaction time – this
can be crucial in an emergency
situation. • Dulling the thinking process making it
difficult to multi-task – an essential skill
necessary for safe driving. • Reducing attention span – not noticing
other drivers and/or vehicles. • Causing blurred vision and reduced
hearing – reducing your ability to drive safely and identify driving hazards.

http://www.carrsq.qut.edu.au/publications/corporate/drink_driving_fs.pdf

 

[MrsRoseTreasure]

Thanks for all of the...information.

I think it's important to stick to the topic of the conversation and the OP, however. Everyone on this thread agrees that alcohol in excess is bad. So is anything that replaces Messiah in one's life. All of the information you just shared is great for folks to know in general, but really doesn't address the subject matter other than to point out what happens when people do things to excess.

Do you have any contribution to the overall topic, which is whether moderate use of alcoholic beverages is sinful?

Let's not post some prejudicial facts about the good of alcohol, without really looking at the damage it does. This doesn't even take into account the grief, the lives and families destroyed by alcohol. The only minimum limit is no alcohol of any sort.

 

[Angela53510]

And in Great Britain!

[h=1]Drink-drive deaths show 26% rise[/h]

The number of drink-drive deaths had shown a general trend of declining since 1979
The number of deaths in drink-drive accidents on Britain's roads soared by 26% in 2012, provisional figures show.
A total of 290 people were killed last year, compared with 230 in 2011, the Department for Transport (DfT) said.
It also said 6,680 accidents in 2012 were linked to alcohol consumption.
Since records began in 1979, when there were 1,640 drink-drive deaths, the number has shown a general trend of declining. The 2011 total was the lowest recorded.
In 1989, there were 810 deaths and in 1999, there were 460.
'Cause for concern'The DfT pointed out that despite the apparent sharp rise in 2012, the number was still about 25% lower than in 2009 (380 deaths) and almost 40% lower than the 2005 to 2009 average.
Continue reading the main story[h=2]Drink-drive deaths[/h]

• 1979: 1,640
• 1989: 810
• 1999: 460
• 2006: 560
• 2007: 410
• 2008: 400
• 2009: 380
• 2010: 240
• 2011: 230
• 2012: 290

Last year, 1,210 people involved in drink-drive accidents suffered serious injuries and 8,500 people were slightly injured.
Among those killed in drink-drive accidents, most (68%) were drivers, motorcyclists and cyclists over the legal alcohol limit.
The rest were other road users involved in the accident, but not necessarily over the legal limit themselves.
Kevin Clinton, head of road safety for the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (Rospa), called for a lower drink-drive limit and effective enforcement of existing laws.
"Often it is an innocent person who suffers, not just the driver who was over the drink-drive limit," he said.
David Bizley, of the RAC motoring organisation, said the figures were a "cause for concern".
"Clearly more needs to be done to ensure that the anti drink-driving message pioneered by the government's THINK! campaign really sticks with motorists up and down the country."
BBC News - Drink-drive deaths show 26% rise

 

[Angela53510]

PS. I may have an agenda here. I was hit by a drunk driver in 1985 on a Sunday on a drive home from church. I still have considerable pain, plus the accident left me incapacitated and triggered first asthma and then severe Rheumatoid Arthritis. My sister got MS after she was hit by a drunk driver! She is not able to practice law, as I had to give up teaching, so another economic loss not included in the above statistics.

Christians should not be a part of encouraging this carnage. My life was ruined by a drunk drive, but at least I am still alive, in pain 29 years later. My heart goes out to those who have lost a love one because consumption of alcohol is promoted as a lifestyle, and not a Christian one.

 

[Daley]

So, let me clear. What you are telling me is that that whatever Paul said after the resurrection of Messiah is more important than the commandments of Yeshua the Messiah out of his own mouth?

I think Paul was a magnificent man and full of wisdom and knowledge and truth. However, I often think his words are twisted to destruction all the time.

Paul was not the Messiah, the King of all Kings. I will listen to the words out of Messiah's mouth and take the words of Paul as the good advice it was intended. If you choose to follow a man and then Messiah, I will not judge that, but I know one who will.

Shalom

Yes, drunkenness starts with the first drink, and gluttony starts with the first bite, so we shouldn't eat? By the way, as for your idea that Paul's word is inferior to that of Jesus, lets remember who Paul got his information from. " But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ." (Gal 1:11-12) If you don't true Paul to tell you what Jesus told him, you can't trust Matthew or the other gospel writers to record what he told them either.

 

[Kerry]

What do you, need it for. To help you sleep or to calm the stress of life. Whats the need. If the cross can't suffice. nothing else will. Might as well fire it up and pass it around. Whats the difference.

 

[dcontroversal]

I was agreeing with ya bud, just adding to what you said

Awesome brother...!

 

[Shava]

So, let me clear. What you are telling me is that that whatever Paul said after the resurrection of Messiah is more important than the commandments of Yeshua the Messiah out of his own mouth?

I think Paul was a magnificent man and full of wisdom and knowledge and truth. However, I often think his words are twisted to destruction all the time.

Paul was not the Messiah, the King of all Kings. I will listen to the words out of Messiah's mouth and take the words of Paul as the good advice it was intended. If you choose to follow a man and then Messiah, I will not judge that, but I know one who will.

Shalom

Hey MrsRoseTreasure, hope all is well this evening. I believe from what's being said that since Jesus didn't drink and we are to follow in his footsteps, being Christ like, we to are not suppose to drink either. All of these reasons for using alcohol then are null and void due to the fact that the medication that we have now being far superior, that Jesus would expect us to use what he has given man talent to produce. You cannot say for certain what Jesus made was alcoholic, but the odds are that he made it non alcoholic because it's not something he condones, and for him to make fermented wine would be contrary to his nature of being sinless, pure, never putting his creation in harms way.

 

[dcontroversal]

Thanks for all of the...information.

I think it's important to stick to the topic of the conversation and the OP, however. Everyone on this thread agrees that alcohol in excess is bad. So is anything that replaces Messiah in one's life. All of the information you just shared is great for folks to know in general, but really doesn't address the subject matter other than to point out what happens when people do things to excess.

Do you have any contribution to the overall topic, which is whether moderate use of alcoholic beverages is sinful?

Awesome reply and Amen....!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Red: Excuse me, but you & yer buddy have already did that for 16 pages..... & now U blame me for it. That's called projection. Didn't work.

Green: W h y d i d n 't y o u ? 16 pages & no commentary whatsoever. You guys had the opportunity & the advantage, & didn't use it. Might make somebody wonder why.........

well it is obvious you have no desire to discuss anything anymore.

take you rmocking attacks elsewhere. And thanks for showing what a true pharisee you are. they tried the same tactics.

 

[dcontroversal]

Funny you should say this. Since none of us which are trying to show the true word drink.

Yet more proof that people only hear what they want to hear. And not listen to what is actually being said, It is called hard hardheartedness.

Amen and so true......not to mention the rejection of the inspired word and claim of it being evil by those who reject it!

 

[Stephen63]

Let's not forget how many girls have been raped by a guy who slipped a mickey in their beer at a party.

 

[Daley]

Youth and impaired driving, in Canada.

The statistics for motor vehicle crashes and alcohol-related crashes among young drivers are alarming.

• Young people have the highest rates of traffic death and injury per capita among all age groups and the highest death rate per kilometer driven among all drivers under 75 years of age. More 19-year-olds die or are seriously injured than any other age group.
• Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death among 16 to 25 year olds, and alcohol and/or drugs are a factor in 55% of those crashes.
• 16-25 year olds constituted 13.7% of the population in 2009, but made up almost 31.1 % of the alcohol-related traffic deaths.

Studies conclude that young drivers are over-represented in road crashes for two primary reasons: inexperience and immaturity. Although young people are the least likely to drive impaired, the ones who do are at very high risk of collision.

MADD Canada -Statistics

The magnitude of alcohol/drug-related Crash Problem in Canada

Fatalities

In 2010, it was estimated that 2,541 individuals were killed in motor vehicle crashes in Canada. MADD Canada estimates that at a minimum 1,082 of these fatalities were impairment-related. In MADD Canada's opinion, the 1,082 figure is a conservative estimate, due to the underreporting that results from the inability to conduct alcohol tests on surviving impaired drivers and from the need to rely on police reports. Moreover, the figure underestimates the percentage of crash deaths that involve drugs. Thus, the recent sharp increases in driving after drug use have not been factored into the 1,082 figure.
As well, the 1,082 figure does not include individuals killed in impaired crashes on the waterways. It was estimated that there was an average of 135 boating deaths per year from 2006 to 2008 and it appears that more than 50% of these boating deaths involved alcohol and/or drugs. Nor does the 1,082 figure include fatalities arising from aircraft, trains and industrial vehicles such as forklifts.
Given the limits on the 1,082 figure, MADD Canada estimates there are somewhere between 1,250 and 1,500 impairment-related crash deaths in Canada each year (3.4– 4.1 deaths per day).
Injuries

In 2010, it was estimated that about 299,838 individuals were injured in motor vehicle crashes. MADD Canada estimates that approximately 63,821 of these individuals were injured in impairment-related crashes (roughly 175 per day). Note that this figure is limited to motor vehicle crashes only.
Property Damage

In 2010, it was estimated that approximately 1,651,650 motor vehicles were involved in property damage-only crashes in Canada. MADD Canada estimates that approximately 210,932 of these vehicles were damaged in impairment-related crashes (roughly 578 per day).
Estimated Cost of Impaired Driving Crashes

Using a social cost model, impairment-related driving deaths, injuries and property damage-only crashes in Canada can be estimated to have cost $20.62 billion in 2010. This model is recent, is based on extensive analysis, and was prepared for the federal Ministry of Transportation. This figure is also limited to motor vehicle crashes.

MADD Canada - Impaired Driving

One thing these statistics lack is the figures for the overall percentage of people who use alcohol and do not suffer these consequences. When it is realized that the vast majority of people in the world who take a drink of beer don't crash their cars, or go do something crazy, it becomes clear that what we have here is just cases of abusing the alcohol. But we shouldn't ban something just because a minority abuse it, else we should ban the Bible, because there is plenty more false religion out there misinterpreting the Bible and misusing it for their own ends. Gluttony is a sin. Because their are gluttons doesn't mean we shouldn't eat food, does it? Similar comments could be made for alcohol.

These statistics try to take the bad fortune of a minority, and use it as an excuse for depriving the majority. I have already given a link to pretty good information on the benefits of using alcohol, and people should not be denied those benefits because others abuse. Knives were used in plenty of killings, should that make us punished all the cooks and ban knives from the kitchen?

 

[dcontroversal]

So lets Go to Jewish tradition.

Jews usually watered down their wine (usually three parts water to one part wine) to water down the mixture. At a Jewish wedding feast, running out of food or wine was a bad thing, the person throwing the party could actually get fined for this (yes legalistic I know. but that is the way it was)

Thus when Jesus turned the water to wine, They excaimed it was not the watered down version, it was much better.

Now can someone PLEASE show me how watering down GRAPE juice would mean anything? If anything it would PISS PEOPLE OFF, for being CHEAP!

I suppose that watering down the wine is just the tip of the iceberg as many today water down the word by their opinions instead of being mature about the inspired word of God as found in the OP.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I wrote a perfectly good, if LONG explanation of drinking in the Bible, looking at the two words especially in Hebrew which are used for the alcohol beverage and the "new wine".

I have to wonder why I bother? Some people didn't even glance at it. I put plenty of Scriptures up, on page 18, post #358, and some addendums about what drinking does to people who drive, and innocent victims.

My synopsis is that if you actually look at each of the two words in Hebrew, drinking is a terrible thing, which causes nothing but problems, and Christians should not be doing it.

And don't come back and say I didn't post the verses, they are all there in post #358.

we did read it.

why did you not read the op? why did you not acknowledge people were getting drunk at the communion supper (lords table) yet paul did not chasten them for drinking alcoholic wine, but because they were hording the wine and getting drunk. while not sharing. Why did you not acknowledge the passage which stated clearly that drinking was not the sin, But "tarrying long" at it was?

If people are only going to focus on half the stuff, and ignore or twist the rest. What kind of reputation would they have on the subject?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let's not post some prejudicial facts about the good of alcohol, without really looking at the damage it does. This doesn't even take into account the grief, the lives and families destroyed by alcohol. The only minimum limit is no alcohol of any sort.

Sorry sis. But because many abuse it does not mean it should be avoided altogether.

Car accidents kill millions, Yet should we all stop driving cars?

Lets look at what the word says, Not what people who abuse and make an idol of of something does not mean that thing is bad in and of itself.

 

[dcontroversal]

I've heard people say the same thing about fornication.

Fornication and drinking a glass of wine<-------NOT EVEN CLOSE TO SAME GENERAL CATEGORIES!

 

[Shava]

Yes, drunkenness starts with the first drink, and gluttony starts with the first bite, so we shouldn't eat? By the way, as for your idea that Paul's word is inferior to that of Jesus, lets remember who Paul got his information from. " But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ." (Gal 1:11-12) If you don't true Paul to tell you what Jesus told him, you can't trust Matthew or the other gospel writers to record what he told them either.

Well said, some people forget that all of the writers were divinely inspired to write what God wanted, not what they wanted. I wonder how many people would be willing to put there yea or nay to Jesus drinking alcohol for things other than medicinal purposes.

 

[Daley]

It can't be sinful if Jesus did it. In Luke 22, the wine Jesus drank on the Passover in the month of Nisan must have been fermented, because this was several months after the grape harvest in Ab when grapes were crushed and filtered to get the juice. Fermentation begins after the first 8 hours, so after a few months sure it had alcohol. Unless someone can show us proof that Jesus miraculously made this one, and that it wasn't fermented it.