DRINKING AND THE SCRIPTURES

[Shava]

Messiah turned water into wine at the request of his mother. John 2:1-11

If you are asserting that "Jesus" didn't drink, so therefore you don't drink, you're wrong. He did drink, and he made it possible for others to drink. If you follow the logic through, he condoned their drinking.

If you're asserting that Messiah didn't drink, you are wrong. Messiah tells us to follow the Passover (Pesach) and the drink wine and break the bread in remembrance of his sacrifice. Luke 17:14-23 It's a COMMAND to drink the wine in remembrance of him. It's a directive.

If alcohol is a stumbling block for you, obviously Messiah would not throw a stumbling block in your path. Let's assume that recovering alcoholics are off the table for this. Outside of that, if your heart truly desires to obey Messiah and live according to the word, then you must step outside of the viewpoint taught from the pulpits and really read what's in the word for yourself.

Understand, I'm not talking about puking, falling down drunkenness. I read it that the OP is not talking about "drunkenness" either. I am talking about LITERALLY obeying the commandments of Messiah in which he says, "Do this in remembrance of me."

My first Bible I ever got when I was six-years-old has the words of Messiah written in red. I used to go through and just read the red parts so that I was able to see just the words of Messiah. It's a different set of books when you read it that way. I see his words as directives and commands. I see him as the bright shining King of the Revelation and Daniel, and to me, everything he said was for me. One day his throne will be brought down, and the whole world will worship at his Passover table, and when we do, he will drink wine with us, and break the bread with us. Amen.

Eph. 5:18 “And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;” (“Drunk” in this verse is the Greek word METHUSKO which “signifies to make drunk, of grow drunk (an inceptive verb which marks the process of the state of being drunk” (Vine). The the New Testament not only forbids drunkenness, but also beginning the process of becoming drunk. It therefore forbids drinking, even in “moderation”, because the first glass is the beginning of the process. Eph. 5:18 “And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;” (“Drunk” in this verse is the Greek word METHUSKO which “signifies to make drunk, of grow drunk (an inceptive verb which marks the process of the state of being drunk” (Vine). The the New Testament not only forbids drunkenness, but also beginning the process of becoming drunk. It therefore forbids drinking, even in “moderation”, because the first glass is the beginning of the process.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, you know what God thinks? Did He tell you? What you're telling me is what YOU think. I am merely searching for educated christians who are reputable, and in agreement. I don't know you or DC, so guess what......... you're not credible to me.

In other words, your looking for people who agree with you. Why don't you just admit it? the same could be said of you. Do you want to look at the word. or just make attacks?

I don't expect to be credible in people's eyes....... so I post those that are. If you don't want to listen to commentaries & theologians, that's your problem. I don't believe for a moment, neither should others, that chat members know more than commentaries & theologians.

Thats the problem. I can post Many commentaries AND theologians which would show the other view. So which do we listen to?

We know what you will do. If they agree with you they are credible, if not, they are misinformed.

 

[Jay1]

The greek word for wine in the bible refers to alcoholic wine and grape juice. If we can understand the context of scripture when it talks about wine we would know that Jesus never made or drank alcohol. Some of you keep trying to make an argument that as long as you don't get drunk it is okay, (I use to be in that camp), but how can a person know how much of any alcoholic drink to drink and not get drunk. Read the OT and you will see all of the trouble that God's people got themselves into because of alcohol wine. Whatever happened to eating and drinking to the glory of God and our bodies being the temple of God? God even refers to the false church, false teachings and the false church persecution of the saints as being drunk with wine (Revelation 14:8, 17:2, 6). So why would any christian want to take part in anything that God equates with false teaching and destruction.

Tests shows that after three bottles of beer, there is an average of 13 percent net memory loss. After taking small amounts of alcohol, trained typists errors increased 40 percent. Only one ounce of alcohol increases the time required to make a decision by nearly 10 percent; slows muscular reaction by 17 percent; increases errors due to lack of attention by 35 percent. And the health benefits of wine are also found in grape juice because it is the grape that has the benefits not the alcohol.

Another man made doctrine that opposes God's word being taught by some of God's people. Every christian needs to read Revelation 18:3-5 and determine whether they are following the teachings of Babylon - confusion. And if you are, you need to "Come out of her, my people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues."

 

[Brother_Don]

one thing this thread has done for me, is let me know who not to listen to. not sure what spirits a person that is drinking is speaking with. But i believe that those that choose not to drink will more likely be filled with the Holy Spirit, and not some spirit out of a bottle, can, glass, or what ever they drink the spirit out of.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

one thing this thread has done for me, is let me know who not to listen to. not sure what spirits a person that is drinking is speaking with. But i believe that those that choose not to drink will more likely be filled with the Holy Spirit, and not some spirit out of a bottle, can, glass, or what ever they drink the spirit out of.

Funny you should say this. Since none of us which are trying to show the true word drink.

Yet more proof that people only hear what they want to hear. And not listen to what is actually being said, It is called hard hardheartedness.

 

[watcher2013]

Eph. 5:18 “And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;” (“Drunk” in this verse is the Greek word METHUSKO which “signifies to make drunk, of grow drunk (an inceptive verb which marks the process of the state of being drunk” (Vine). The the New Testament not only forbids drunkenness, but also beginning the process of becoming drunk. It therefore forbids drinking, even in “moderation”, because the first glass is the beginning of the process. Eph. 5:18 “And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;” (“Drunk” in this verse is the Greek word METHUSKO which “signifies to make drunk, of grow drunk (an inceptive verb which marks the process of the state of being drunk” (Vine). The the New Testament not only forbids drunkenness, but also beginning the process of becoming drunk. It therefore forbids drinking, even in “moderation”, because the first glass is the beginning of the process.

Maybe, that was the reason why the Corinthian were drunk...
1Co 11:20 When you gather in the same place, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper.
1Co 11:21 For as you eat, each of you rushes to eat his own supper, and one person goes hungry while another gets drunk.
1Co 11:22 You have homes in which to eat and drink, don't you? Or do you despise God's church and humiliate those who have nothing? What should I say to you? Should I praise you? I will not praise you for this!

Do you think Paul advise was wrong and yours much better...
Stop the Lord Supper then???/

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The greek word for wine in the bible refers to alcoholic wine and grape juice. If we can understand the context of scripture when it talks about wine we would know that Jesus never made or drank alcohol. Some of you keep trying to make an argument that as long as you don't get drunk it is okay, (I use to be in that camp), but how can a person know how much of any alcoholic drink to drink and not get drunk. Read the OT and you will see all of the trouble that God's people got themselves into because of alcohol wine. Whatever happened to eating and drinking to the glory of God and our bodies being the temple of God? God even refers to the false church, false teachings and the false church persecution of the saints as being drunk with wine (Revelation 14:8, 17:2, 6). So why would any christian want to take part in anything that God equates with false teaching and destruction.

Tests shows that after three bottles of beer, there is an average of 13 percent net memory loss. After taking small amounts of alcohol, trained typists errors increased 40 percent. Only one ounce of alcohol increases the time required to make a decision by nearly 10 percent; slows muscular reaction by 17 percent; increases errors due to lack of attention by 35 percent. And the health benefits of wine are also found in grape juice because it is the grape that has the benefits not the alcohol.

Another man made doctrine that opposes God's word being taught by some of God's people. Every christian needs to read Revelation 18:3-5 and determine whether they are following the teachings of Babylon - confusion. And if you are, you need to "Come out of her, my people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues."

So lets Go to Jewish tradition.

Jews usually watered down their wine (usually three parts water to one part wine) to water down the mixture. At a Jewish wedding feast, running out of food or wine was a bad thing, the person throwing the party could actually get fined for this (yes legalistic I know. but that is the way it was)

Thus when Jesus turned the water to wine, They excaimed it was not the watered down version, it was much better.

Now can someone PLEASE show me how watering down GRAPE juice would mean anything? If anything it would PISS PEOPLE OFF, for being CHEAP!

 

[Jay1]

It should make christians think about the connection between spirits and alcohol, seeing how another name for alcohol is spirits, just saying.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Maybe, that was the reason why the Corinthian were drunk...
1Co 11:20 When you gather in the same place, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper.
1Co 11:21 For as you eat, each of you rushes to eat his own supper, and one person goes hungry while another gets drunk.
1Co 11:22 You have homes in which to eat and drink, don't you? Or do you despise God's church and humiliate those who have nothing? What should I say to you? Should I praise you? I will not praise you for this!

Do you think Paul advise was wrong and yours much better...
Stop the Lord Supper then???/

lol. Second time this was posted. Getting drunk at the communion table. How can they do this with Grape Juice?? My My

 

[Jay1]

You talk as if Jesus was not the Son of God and couldn't make the best grape juice man had ever had...oh He did.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You talk as if Jesus was not the Son of God and couldn't make the best grape juice man had ever had...oh He did.

Jesus could do whatever he wanted.

But he would not mock a group of people by replacing true wine with just grape juice.

And if he did, We surely would have known about it!

 

[Stephen63]

In other words, your looking for people who agree with you. Why don't you just admit it? the same could be said of you. Do you want to look at the word. or just make attacks?
[/SIZE]

Thats the problem. I can post Many commentaries AND theologians which would show the other view. So which do we listen to?

We know what you will do. If they agree with you they are credible, if not, they are misinformed.

Red: Excuse me, but you & yer buddy have already did that for 16 pages..... & now U blame me for it. That's called projection. Didn't work.

Green: W h y d i d n 't y o u ? 16 pages & no commentary whatsoever. You guys had the opportunity & the advantage, & didn't use it. Might make somebody wonder why.........

 

[MrsRoseTreasure]

So, let me clear. What you are telling me is that that whatever Paul said after the resurrection of Messiah is more important than the commandments of Yeshua the Messiah out of his own mouth?

I think Paul was a magnificent man and full of wisdom and knowledge and truth. However, I often think his words are twisted to destruction all the time.

Paul was not the Messiah, the King of all Kings. I will listen to the words out of Messiah's mouth and take the words of Paul as the good advice it was intended. If you choose to follow a man and then Messiah, I will not judge that, but I know one who will.

Shalom

Eph. 5:18 “And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;” (“Drunk” in this verse is the Greek word METHUSKO which “signifies to make drunk, of grow drunk (an inceptive verb which marks the process of the state of being drunk” (Vine). The the New Testament not only forbids drunkenness, but also beginning the process of becoming drunk. It therefore forbids drinking, even in “moderation”, because the first glass is the beginning of the process. Eph. 5:18 “And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;” (“Drunk” in this verse is the Greek word METHUSKO which “signifies to make drunk, of grow drunk (an inceptive verb which marks the process of the state of being drunk” (Vine). The the New Testament not only forbids drunkenness, but also beginning the process of becoming drunk. It therefore forbids drinking, even in “moderation”, because the first glass is the beginning of the process.

 

[Daley]

Well, ask any alcoholic of which I use to be until the cross of Christ set me free. I realize and understand that not every body that drinks is an alcoholic, But every alcoholic took their first drink and curses the day that the did.

Secondly, Jesus turning the water into wine and the master of the feast said " you have saved the best for last". Any bartender ( as I have known many) will tell you that when a person comes in and orders a drink. They make a good stiff drink, but after they have been there for a while, the bartender can start cutting back almost to the point to where there is just a very small amount of liquor in the drink and the dude can' tell the difference and the bar makes even more money.

Thirdly wine in the bible describes any drink, paste, or jelly that is made from grapes as wine. In fact the famous Greek philosophers describe fermented wine as being mixed with water. Firstly because the didn't have chlorine and a small amount of alcohol would kill the bacteria in the water. Secondly, wine was expensive so it was often watered down. The last description given by the Greeks was that it was 1 part wine and 3 parts water and would take 23 glasses to equal 1 martini.

Strong drink was considered full strength wine or beer or a type of liquor that was made from dates.

Not until prohibition here in the U.S. was grape juice separated from the term wine.


Where am I, fourthly or fifthly or sixthly any way. Your children are watching you and who knows that first drink may spur an alcoholic. If you play with a snake your gonna get bit one way or another. Best to just leave it alone and get drunk in the Spirit.

There is no high like the Most High. Amen

Anything can be abused. More people in my country have health problems related to their salt and sugar intake than alcohol. That doesn't mean they should best avoid salt or sugar altogether. The same is true of alcohol. Sure, for a recovering alcoholic, he will tend to be a little biased against alcohol because of what it did to him, but it wasn't the alcohol, it was himself. When a man stabbed another man to death he doesn't get angry at knives for the rest of his life. So lets not blame the alcohol anymore than diabetics should blame salt or sugar.

Here is some good medicinal info:

"Moderate drinkers tend to enjoy better health than do either abstainers or heavy drinkers.

• A nation-wide survey in the U.S. revealed that daily moderate drinkers experienced significantly less acute hospitalization.31
• A nine year study of indicators of good health found moderate alcohol consumption to be associated with the most favorable health scores.32
• A study that examined nearly 10,000 men and women at age 23 and again at age 33 found that the moderate drinkers experience lower levels of poor general health, long-term illness, and psychological distress when compared to abstainers and heavy drinkers.33
• A study of nearly 20,000 Spaniards found that moderate consumption of any alcohol -- beer, wine, or spirits -- was linked to better overall health, compared to abstinence from alcohol.34
• A nation-wide Canadian study found that moderate drinkers who consumed alcohol daily had 15% less disability than the general population.35
• A Dutch study found that moderate drinkers under stress were less likely to be absent from work than were either abstainers or heavy drinkers. The investigators concluded that "abstinence is at least as unhealthy as excessive drinking."36
• A study of 3,803 individuals age 18 to 101 found that lifelong teetotalers as well as former drinkers are consistently less healthy than light to moderate drinkers (those who consume up to 60 drinks per month). The health superiority of light and moderate drinkers extends to both physical and mental health.37" https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=iPcAWj5trhgrVwDMHKX0Kw&bvm=bv.62578216,d.eW0

Using alcohol properly is better than not using it at all.

 

[Angela53510]

I wrote a perfectly good, if LONG explanation of drinking in the Bible, looking at the two words especially in Hebrew which are used for the alcohol beverage and the "new wine".

I have to wonder why I bother? Some people didn't even glance at it. I put plenty of Scriptures up, on page 18, post #358, and some addendums about what drinking does to people who drive, and innocent victims.

My synopsis is that if you actually look at each of the two words in Hebrew, drinking is a terrible thing, which causes nothing but problems, and Christians should not be doing it.

And don't come back and say I didn't post the verses, they are all there in post #358.

 

[Angela53510]

Youth and impaired driving, in Canada.

The statistics for motor vehicle crashes and alcohol-related crashes among young drivers are alarming.

• Young people have the highest rates of traffic death and injury per capita among all age groups and the highest death rate per kilometer driven among all drivers under 75 years of age. More 19-year-olds die or are seriously injured than any other age group.
• Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death among 16 to 25 year olds, and alcohol and/or drugs are a factor in 55% of those crashes.
• 16-25 year olds constituted 13.7% of the population in 2009, but made up almost 31.1 % of the alcohol-related traffic deaths.

Studies conclude that young drivers are over-represented in road crashes for two primary reasons: inexperience and immaturity. Although young people are the least likely to drive impaired, the ones who do are at very high risk of collision.

MADD Canada -Statistics

The magnitude of alcohol/drug-related Crash Problem in Canada

[h=3]Fatalities[/h]In 2010, it was estimated that 2,541 individuals were killed in motor vehicle crashes in Canada. MADD Canada estimates that at a minimum 1,082 of these fatalities were impairment-related. In MADD Canada's opinion, the 1,082 figure is a conservative estimate, due to the underreporting that results from the inability to conduct alcohol tests on surviving impaired drivers and from the need to rely on police reports. Moreover, the figure underestimates the percentage of crash deaths that involve drugs. Thus, the recent sharp increases in driving after drug use have not been factored into the 1,082 figure.
As well, the 1,082 figure does not include individuals killed in impaired crashes on the waterways. It was estimated that there was an average of 135 boating deaths per year from 2006 to 2008 and it appears that more than 50% of these boating deaths involved alcohol and/or drugs. Nor does the 1,082 figure include fatalities arising from aircraft, trains and industrial vehicles such as forklifts.
Given the limits on the 1,082 figure, MADD Canada estimates there are somewhere between 1,250 and 1,500 impairment-related crash deaths in Canada each year (3.4– 4.1 deaths per day).
[h=3]Injuries[/h]In 2010, it was estimated that about 299,838 individuals were injured in motor vehicle crashes. MADD Canada estimates that approximately 63,821 of these individuals were injured in impairment-related crashes (roughly 175 per day). Note that this figure is limited to motor vehicle crashes only.
[h=3]Property Damage[/h]In 2010, it was estimated that approximately 1,651,650 motor vehicles were involved in property damage-only crashes in Canada. MADD Canada estimates that approximately 210,932 of these vehicles were damaged in impairment-related crashes (roughly 578 per day).
[h=3]Estimated Cost of Impaired Driving Crashes[/h]Using a social cost model, impairment-related driving deaths, injuries and property damage-only crashes in Canada can be estimated to have cost $20.62 billion in 2010. This model is recent, is based on extensive analysis, and was prepared for the federal Ministry of Transportation. This figure is also limited to motor vehicle crashes.

MADD Canada - Impaired Driving

 

[Angela53510]

Impaired Driving: Get the Facts USA

[h=1]Impaired Driving: Get the Facts[/h][h=4]On this Page[/h]

• How big is the problem?
• Who is most at risk?
• How can deaths and injuries from impaired driving be prevented?
• What safety steps can individuals take?
• References

Every day, almost 30 people in the United States die in motor vehicle crashes that involve an alcohol-impaired driver. This amounts to one death every 48 minutes.1 The annual cost of alcohol-related crashes totals more than $51 billion.2Thankfully, there are effective measures that can help prevent injuries and deaths from alcohol-impaired driving.​

[h=2]How big is the problem?[/h]

• In 2010, 10,228 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (31%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.1
• Of the 1,210 traffic deaths among children ages 0 to 14 years in 2010, 211 (17%) involved an alcohol-impaired driver.1
• Of the 211 child passengers ages 14 and younger who died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes in 2010, over half (131) were riding in the vehicle with the alcohol-impaired driver.1
• In 2010, over 1.4 million drivers were arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol or narcotics.3That's one percent of the 112 million self-reported episodes of alcohol-impaired driving among U.S. adults each year.4

CDC - Impaired Driving Facts - Motor Vehicle Safety - Injury Center

 

[Animus]

Using alcohol properly is better than not using it at all.

I've heard people say the same thing about fornication.

 

[Angela53510]

And more about the USA

 

[Angela53510]

Let's not post some prejudicial facts about the good of alcohol, without really looking at the damage it does. This doesn't even take into account the grief, the lives and families destroyed by alcohol. The only minimum limit is no alcohol of any sort.