Who was Lucifer?

[Elizabeth619]

I am pleased to begin again, I may be course and abrasive when I fell attacked, but it is from 20 years of hearing unsupportable traditions given as though scripture. Forgive me for my bluntness but I communicate with so many different posts and emails per day, that I have little time to sugar coat thing (Sugar coating, something that never seem to work anyway). May the Lord bless and Keep you.

All is forgotten. We are good

i dont sugar coat much and I'm certainly not one who is politically correct. so we may get along fine.
I haven't studied this who thing on lucifer but I am interested in your views in it. It does seem that lucifer is not satan and i
mention he could be Herod but not sure. Worth learning though

 

[ji]

Who realy was lucifer and why is he only mentioned once in the bible? Why do people refer lucifer to satin? I'm just hearing a lot of controversy over who lucifer realy was..

Lucifer was the most powerful angel created by God who enjoyed a very High Position near God's Throne.Satan means 'adversary'.If i am correct 'satan' came from Hebrew 'ha satan' which means the adversary.
And you are wrong,the term lucifer or luciferian doctrines are still used in satanic culture,its word wide with satanic churches which promotes self pride,abominations and wicked rituals following it.This is the root cause of all the evil on earth,which when Christ returns will cut if from roots sending it back to hell with satan(the old dragon) who was once i think the most respected of all angels in Heaven,who got very arrogant and thought of getting higher to God's throne and sit on it and become God.satan was Lucifer then,before he was struck down.And God struck him down along with 1/3 rd of the Heavenly Hosts that joined in his(satan's) rebellion(against God).That was an angelic war with God's obedient Angels pushing them(satan and his hordes) down from God's presence in greater Heavenly realms.(beyond Second Heaven i guess) These are the fallen angels,with satan(fallen lucifer)being their head.Read book of Isaiah.Do not read other crappy books talking about it which can mislead because as Jesus said "satan is a liar and he is the father of all lies".
God Bless.Read KJV 1611 version if english is the language you are comfortable with.

If something is confusing,meditate and Pray to God.He will give all the answers you need in time.Do not go to people and get mislead in future.

 

[blue_ladybug]

If lucifer was a fallen king, then how did satin come about?

Jruiz, Lucifer is NOT a fallen king. He is a fallen ANGEL. When God cast him out of heaven, Lucifer's name became Satan..He is better known as the devil. Satan is the great liar and destroyer. He rebelled against God in heaven so God expelled him out and down to hell. His mission here on earth is to lie, and deceive and destroy us and our faith and belief in God. That is how Satan "came about."

 

[Woodartdon]

there are so many factors to consider that it is almost impossible to encompass so mush without being a long read, but I will share bluntly and answer any questions you have from there. First one verse that tells us more about the corruption of the old testament than any other is Jeremiah 8:8. As Israel had just been taken into captivity, we know from Babylonian history that conquered nation were allowed to take their god's with them as a means of pacification in relocation. We know from Jeremiah 8:8 that the Scribes had changed the originals to the point that Jeremiah says God said; "How can man now hope to have wisdom, when the scribes have written lies!" So to me little in the old testament is worth arguing about. The name Lucifer is a translators liberty but Satan and Devil are descriptions of who Satan is, more that a sir name. The spirit that accuses man before God was from it beginning a murderer and a lair and that it only gets it's power from God. Man having been given God's "POWER" and God's "AUTHORITY gives God's power to Satan daily. So much worry about the past that mean nothing and so little attention given today's miss-steps.

All is forgotten. We are good

i dont sugar coat much and I'm certainly not one who is politically correct. so we may get along fine.
I haven't studied this who thing on lucifer but I am interested in your views in it. It does seem that lucifer is not satan and i
mention he could be Herod but not sure. Worth learning though

 

[Woodartdon]

You preach traditions really good, but I do not see scripture that proves your stance.

Jruiz, Lucifer is NOT a fallen king. He is a fallen ANGEL. When God cast him out of heaven, Lucifer's name became Satan..He is better known as the devil. Satan is the great liar and destroyer. He rebelled against God in heaven so God expelled him out and down to hell. His mission here on earth is to lie, and deceive and destroy us and our faith and belief in God. That is how Satan "came about."

 

[Woodartdon]

Traditional gibberish unless you can prove what you say from the Bible without adding to the words to do so. Very little of what you say here is in the Bible at all. You know millstone and all that!

Lucifer was the most powerful angel created by God who enjoyed a very High Position near God's Throne.Satan means 'adversary'.If i am correct 'satan' came from Hebrew 'ha satan' which means the adversary.
And you are wrong,the term lucifer or luciferian doctrines are still used in satanic culture,its word wide with satanic churches which promotes self pride,abominations and wicked rituals following it.This is the root cause of all the evil on earth,which when Christ returns will cut if from roots sending it back to hell with satan(the old dragon) who was once i think the most respected of all angels in Heaven,who got very arrogant and thought of getting higher to God's throne and sit on it and become God.satan was Lucifer then,before he was struck down.And God struck him down along with 1/3 rd of the Heavenly Hosts that joined in his(satan's) rebellion(against God).That was an angelic war with God's obedient Angels pushing them(satan and his hordes) down from God's presence in greater Heavenly realms.(beyond Second Heaven i guess) These are the fallen angels,with satan(fallen lucifer)being their head.Read book of Isaiah.Do not read other crappy books talking about it which can mislead because as Jesus said "satan is a liar and he is the father of all lies".
God Bless.Read KJV 1611 version if english is the language you are comfortable with.

If something is confusing,meditate and Pray to God.He will give all the answers you need in time.Do not go to people and get mislead in future.

 

[JesusLives]

Could be this one?

View attachment 73880
Or maybe him?

You two (TinTin) have given me my laugh for the day....>).....

 

[blue_ladybug]

Woodartdon, Isaiah 28:13 speaks of Lucifer as he was in heaven, before he fell and became Satan. It says: "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx and the jasper. The sapphire, the emerald and the carbuncle; and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared for thee in the day that thou wast created."

God is describing here how Lucifer looked while he was still an angel. He was dressed in bright shiny jewels, therefore the name "light bringer." Jewels glisten brightly when in the sunlight. As did Lucifer until he was cast out of heaven.

Isaiah 14:12-15 details Lucifer's fall from heaven, where he became the satanic creature he is today. " How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high; yet thou shalt be brought down to the sides of the pit."

This details WHY Lucifer got cast out of heaven. He became prideful, arrogant and jealous. So God cast him down to earth to rot in hell for all eternity. Satan became his name when he was cast down.

Myself and other posters keep giving you scriptures to prove our points. If you're not satisfied, then open your bible and give US scriptural references. Prove to US who Lucifer/Satan is. I dont preach, nor is detailing who Lucifer/Satan is not a tradition. Lucifer and Satan is a known FACT, not a myth or tradition. Myself and other posters here are simply trying to answer the OP here. If you are unsatisfied with our answers, then give us an answer of your own as to who Lucifer and Satan are.

 

[Tintin]

Lucifer was the most powerful angel created by God who enjoyed a very High Position near God's Throne.Satan means 'adversary'.If i am correct 'satan' came from Hebrew 'ha satan' which means the adversary.
And you are wrong,the term lucifer or luciferian doctrines are still used in satanic culture,its word wide with satanic churches which promotes self pride,abominations and wicked rituals following it.This is the root cause of all the evil on earth,which when Christ returns will cut if from roots sending it back to hell with satan(the old dragon) who was once i think the most respected of all angels in Heaven,who got very arrogant and thought of getting higher to God's throne and sit on it and become God.satan was Lucifer then,before he was struck down.And God struck him down along with 1/3 rd of the Heavenly Hosts that joined in his(satan's) rebellion(against God).That was an angelic war with God's obedient Angels pushing them(satan and his hordes) down from God's presence in greater Heavenly realms.(beyond Second Heaven i guess) These are the fallen angels,with satan(fallen lucifer)being their head.Read book of Isaiah.Do not read other crappy books talking about it which can mislead because as Jesus said "satan is a liar and he is the father of all lies".
God Bless.Read KJV 1611 version if english is the language you are comfortable with.

If something is confusing,meditate and Pray to God.He will give all the answers you need in time.Do not go to people and get mislead in future.

No. That's the last translation you want to read, if you want to understand what you're reading. Why do you and your type constantly point people to seriously out-dated and archaic translations of the Bible? The common man and woman should be able to understand God's Word. You're just encouraging roadblocks to the Gospel.

 

[ji]

Traditional gibberish unless you can prove what you say from the Bible without adding to the words to do so. Very little of what you say here is in the Bible at all. You know millstone and all that!

what do you want?what bible do you use?are you here to argue or confront truth?i am not a perfect bible scholar.

Tell what do you know about satan and which bible do you use to say so?

 

[ji]

No. That's the last translation you want to read, if you want to understand what you're reading. Why do you and your type constantly point people to seriously out-dated and archaic translations of the Bible? The common man and woman should be able to understand God's Word. You're just encouraging roadblocks to the Gospel.

Brother,
what road block have i applied?i don't want anyone's rep power.If there is anything confusing it must be the fact that i say don't condemn others but have the zeal to overcome prob despite failures.That's the only thing that can be confusing.But its not confusing if you have to deal with prob with no one around to help,and realize that God hasn't let go off you.i aint a super christian.Are you honest when you correct others?you are superman?
i remember sometime back i asked you in one thread regarding some topic on KJV1611.
you never replied.Also i might have not seen or replied to many people who have asked or inquired about the things i say in many topics/thread they posted.i live in world,got to work.i spent time here to help others where i have overcome,not in areas am still weak.i don't condemn or say things without thinking and am always ready to correct.When i came to CC,all i wanted was get some good conversation here to get myself up.But i was wrong and i found many people weaker than me in need of help.And that includes many who are old.
Here in this topic,what did i say outside from the bible and jewish traditions regarding satan/lucifer?Please help.i will be watching this post.Educate me,am all ears.Help if you can...




Note:-
i am not perfect,i am not satan either.
When i came to Jesus,He made it very clear that road is going to be tough but He will not leave me.
i don't know everything,and am not omnipotent.From now on i will be looking on threads and watching,if these kind of issues arise which point me as the black sheep.
am a worm who was given second chance to live(by God) despite my wish to go from this damned world.
Please point out my errors one by one so that i can correct the easy ones i can,and make steps t correct the hard ones in future..
There is no modern or old language style,its always changing..

 

[Woodartdon]

It is obvious that you have a Bible translation and what it says is all you stand on. But while you are being so knowledgeable, let me ask you a key question: What do you think about Jeremiah 8:8? Also if you could support your statements with more evidence, it is needed. Thank you.

Woodartdon, Isaiah 28:13 speaks of Lucifer as he was in heaven, before he fell and became Satan. It says: "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx and the jasper. The sapphire, the emerald and the carbuncle; and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared for thee in the day that thou wast created."

God is describing here how Lucifer looked while he was still an angel. He was dressed in bright shiny jewels, therefore the name "light bringer." Jewels glisten brightly when in the sunlight. As did Lucifer until he was cast out of heaven.

Isaiah 14:12-15 details Lucifer's fall from heaven, where he became the satanic creature he is today. " How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high; yet thou shalt be brought down to the sides of the pit."

This details WHY Lucifer got cast out of heaven. He became prideful, arrogant and jealous. So God cast him down to earth to rot in hell for all eternity. Satan became his name when he was cast down.

Myself and other posters keep giving you scriptures to prove our points. If you're not satisfied, then open your bible and give US scriptural references. Prove to US who Lucifer/Satan is. I dont preach, nor is detailing who Lucifer/Satan is not a tradition. Lucifer and Satan is a known FACT, not a myth or tradition. Myself and other posters here are simply trying to answer the OP here. If you are unsatisfied with our answers, then give us an answer of your own as to who Lucifer and Satan are.

 

[Woodartdon]

You ask what I want?! Did you not read my post? Then you boast yourself as the one with truth, How piously arrogant you are sir! I pray you find an open mind leading to a friendship with Yhvh.

what do you want?what bible do you use?are you here to argue or confront truth?i am not a perfect bible scholar.

Tell what do you know about satan and which bible do you use to say so?

 

[ji]

You ask what I want?! Did you not read my post? Then you boast yourself as the one with truth, How piously arrogant you are sir! I pray you find an open mind leading to a friendship with Yhvh.

Clearly you are here playing.What is wrong with KJV1611?
Who is lucifer according to you?where did satan come from?
Give details,scroll up to the comment i gave with details and you can check it with Holy Scripture.Don't cause confusion without presenting any detail.Cool down.

 

[Kefa54]

Lucifer, Satan and the Devil Click on that.

 

[Woodartdon]

Clearly you are being defensive but to answer your question just one more time: The king James is not in any way a translation of the original scripts. Any encyclopedia will tell you that King James edict was as follows: "The translators are to follow the original scrips except where it differs from the pope's bible." King James words not mine! So regardless your preferred translation, only a willingness to be blind to facts exists unless truth is sought in the original scripts! As far as your demand for me to give the details: How hypocritical of you to offer absolutely no details in most all of your post and after that being pointed out to you, you demand the same only you want it first! You should be ashamed to publish reflecting such an self serving earthly spirit.

Clearly you are here playing.What is wrong with KJV1611?
Who is lucifer according to you?where did satan come from?
Give details,scroll up to the comment i gave with details and you can check it with Holy Scripture.Don't cause confusion without presenting any detail.Cool down.

 

[Woodartdon]

I found almost no support for most of what is written on the site you directed me to. Though some of what is said could be supported what can't should be eliminated as it leads to traditional presumptions.

Lucifer, Satan and the Devil Click on that.

 

[ji]

Clearly you are being defensive but to answer your question just one more time: The king James is not in any way a translation of the original scripts. Any encyclopedia will tell you that King James edict was as follows: "The translators are to follow the original scrips except where it differs from the pope's bible." King James words not mine! So regardless your preferred translation, only a willingness to be blind to facts exists unless truth is sought in the original scripts! As far as your demand for me to give the details: How hypocritical of you to offer absolutely no details in most all of your post and after that being pointed out to you, you demand the same only you want it first! You should be ashamed to publish reflecting such an self serving earthly spirit.

" How hypocritical of you to offer absolutely no details in most all of your post and after that being pointed out to you, you demand the same only you want it first! You should be ashamed to publish reflecting such an self serving earthly spirit."- your words.

Point out the errors in the verses of KJV1611 with respect to original manuscripts.What is the knowledge you have about satan-lucifer and where did it come from?Who told you that?which manuscript or old document gave you the idea?

"The name Lucifer is a translators liberty but Satan and Devil are descriptions of who Satan is, more that a sir name. The spirit that accuses man before God was from it beginning a murderer and a lair and that it only gets it's power from God. Man having been given God's "POWER" and God's "AUTHORITY gives God's power to Satan daily. So much worry about the past that mean nothing and so little attention given today's miss-steps." - your words.

i agree with you mostly.
That's why,in order to avoid confusion and open the clear way to Salvation and give clear knowledge about Spiritual Realms that Jesus came in Flesh.He witnessed satan's fall.
"And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." Luke 10:18 kjv
If it was a dark form(that satan had),he wouldn't have fell with properties of light,think!

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." 2 Corinthians 11:14KJV
Its the same deceiver that gave muhammad,their quran..yes talking about islam here..

And continue,we can correct each other..

 

[ji]

In this first section, we have a prophecy to a "Prince" of Tyre and by the description it's clearly a man...


Ezekiel 28:2

2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:​

But then the prophecy continues on to Ezekiel 28:12, where another prophecy is given to a "King" of Tyre. But by comparing Ezekiel 28:2-11 to the following passage, this "king" is clearly not a man...


Ezekiel 28:12-13

12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.​

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.​

...So this "king" was old enough to be present in Eden, and was perfect in beauty...


Ezekiel 28:14

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.​

This "king" was also a class of (what we call) angel called a "cherub", who's primary function was "to cover"...but to cover what? Well if we pause Ezekiel's passage for a moment and reference Exodus 25:17-22:


Exodus 25:17-22

17 And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.

18 And thou shalt make two cherubim of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubim on the two ends thereof.

20 And the cherubim shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be.

21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.

22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.​

There is no other place (I can find) in scripture where cherubs are associated with "covering" except the throne (mercy seat). Other places cherubs either guard or bear the Lord as a chariot...so if this "king" was "a cherub who covers" then he was of a rank so high that he was one of only two beings that stood beside and covered the very throne of God; a throne that's in the most holiest place of heaven. So this "king" possibly stood by the Most High God of all creation.

[Now if we extrapolate more information from the fact that Christ, The Son, is at God's right hand then it’s probable this "king" was the one figuratively at God's left hand...possibly (if we are to rely on the tabernacle furnishings of the mercy seat as an image of heavenly truth). And if his nature is "to accuse" (i.e. judgment), to me - at least - the left hand would be fitting because as Christ's nature is "to have mercy", this would fit the figurative "arms" of God (judgment and mercy)...but this is just a side study of mine and not completely relevant to the identity of this being we call "Lucifer".]

Continuing with Ezekiel 28...


Ezekiel 28:15

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.​

This "king" was perfect until iniquity was found in him, and he was to be "cast out". There is only one main rival in the gospels (Luke 10:18) and Revelation 12 who's associated with being "cast out" of heaven, and that was "The Dragon", "Hasatan". Continuing with Ezekiel 28...


Ezekiel 28:17-19

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.​

Now while there are passages that refer to the "angels" as "morning stars" (which shine), in Isaiah 14:12 there is a particular "shining one" ("helel", translated "Lucifer") being prophesied against who has "fallen from heaven". So while the word "lucifer" doesn't appear to be a proper noun, it was a designation for this heavenly being who fell.

So in the Ezekiel prophecy this "king" - who was a “bright” covering cherub - defiled himself and was to be cast down from heaven...and then after that, is to be “brought to ashes (i.e. burned)” for all to witness. This is exactly what the following Revelation prophecy say happens to satan.


Revelation 12:9-10; 20:10

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent [a call back to Eden], called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

The Dragon, That “old serpent” (a call back to Eden), The devil, satan is cast out...and then later he is hurled in the lake of fire. So this passage links to Ezekiel's passage; satan is the same as "the old serpent from Eden" and the same as "the King of Tyre" and "the cherub who covered", so he was an angel formerly of such a high rank that he had a presence in the most holy place. He was/is an angel of such beauty and brilliance that he allowed himself to become vain; prideful and he fell.


2 Corinthians 11:14

And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.​

Right answer

 

[blue_ladybug]

It is obvious that you have a Bible translation and what it says is all you stand on. But while you are being so knowledgeable, let me ask you a key question: What do you think about Jeremiah 8:8? Also if you could support your statements with more evidence, it is needed. Thank you.

I cant figure out if you're being serious, or if you're only asking for more scripture, which HAS been overwhelmingly presented to you, by the way, to continue arguing with us about who Lucifer and Satan are. Why dont YOU tell US who they are, for once? Or is it because you dont know. They are both referred to in the bible by name, in ANY version you look at. Jeremiah 8:8 has NOTHING to do with the original question, which for the millionth time is, WHO was Lucifer/Satan?!!!! The other posters and myself have tried to answer that question not only for Jruiz, who posted the OP, but you as well, and you keep saying "more scripture please." Fine then, dig into your own bible and provide US with proof of who Lucifer and Satan are. They are one and the same, I assure you, and the bible tells you plainly who Lucifer was before he got cast out of heaven, and what his earthly name became once he arrived to hell. How much more "proof" do you need?!!