Dangers of Manism

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Rachel20

Senior Member
May 7, 2013
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#1
Dangers of Manism


I use the term Manism as an umbrella term for all the men's rights movements, misogynists etc that have taken up huge amount of space on the internet. The so-called Manosphere.
There are several ways in which manism has hurt Christian women and families.

Manism aims to prove that men are somewhat superior to women and seeks to oppress women by throwing claims like how it was better in the past, when women had no votes and no education.
They resent a woman who works, and try to put down all women who do as those who do not care for their families.

Some of them, come across as educated and claim fake titles as a means of explaining away feminism to women.


It's actually a term called mansplaining -
"
Mansplaining is a portmanteau of the words "man" and "explaining" that describes the act of a person speaking to a woman with the assumption that she knows less than explainer does about the topic being discussed on the basis of her gender.[1] In 2010 it was named by The New York Times as one of its "Words of the Year."[2] Mansplaining is different from other forms of condescension because mansplaining is rooted in the assumption that, in general, a man is likely to be more knowledgeable than a woman.[3] "
Source - wikipedia.

Examples of mansplaining -

Even though he knew she had an advanced degree in neuroscience, he felt the need to mansplain "there are molecules in the brain called neurotransmitters"

The recession was caused by the government because it spent too much money and people should look after themselves and not expect society to look after its members or its community... ad nauseam.
...Therefore its all womens fault."


All this is clearly against what the Bible has said.


Galations 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[a] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


To harbour hatred and such resentment against members of the body of Christ, based on gender is terrible!
Some men even assume that women are like slaves and property to them!

However the Bible has said this -


The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife (1 Cor 7:4).

They conveniently disregard the verses about two becoming one flesh and one unit, but use the verses on submission to ''lord'' it over women.


They don't see women as co-equal heirs to the inheritance of Christ.

Such men who go around ''bashing'' women and women's rights have hurt the sentiments of many women. Their misogynistic agendas instead of showing light to others and pointing them to the love of Christ, has in fact turned away many young women.
Having gender wars is definitely not what we as Christians ought to be engaging in.
Christ himself, loved and fellowshiped with many women. It is so special, that when He arose he first appeared to a woman!
He forgave the woman who committed adultery and showed compassion towards her... (when the man involved appears to be missing.)


The place of a woman in the family is so important , the command is for husbands to love their wives like Christ loved the church!
It means that a husband ought to give his life for his wife, the way Christ did! Husbands , who aim to be leaders of their households, must be willing to serve, following the example of Christ.

Christ washed the feet of his disciples. This is a thought to ponder. Respect and honour the women in your lives - care for them, love them, comfort them and be a friend.
Just because a woman can work hard and is able to achieve the same things as a man, shoud be enough reason, but more so because Christ has commanded us to love one another.

Many men do this, those who honour women and who respect them, who in the truest sense of the word would be ''feminists'' of the higher order.

They are a shining light , a blessing, godly men who encourage and who deserve the highest respect.

God bless you. Thanks for reading. :)
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
#2
I don't like them either, I think they're a little misrepresented in that post though. Definitely chock full of very bitter misogyny but they are more into whining and complaining than anything else. I've seen some pretty sad stuff written by them but I'd like a source to any group in that general movement saying women shouldn't have an education or be able to work. That's a new one on me and I'm usually pretty informed about what's going on in the general manosphere.
 

Rachel20

Senior Member
May 7, 2013
1,639
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#3
Well, since you're well informed... have you been to India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia or Africa?
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
#4
Well, since you're well informed... have you been to India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia or Africa?
The manosphere is almost exclusively an English speaking collective made up of mainly Canadians, American, British, and Australians. It's consists of groups like MRA's, MGTOW's, and the like. There really isn't an equivalent of that in most of the places you mentioned(Except for maybe Africa, it's an entire continent so who knows)

In Saudi Arabia I have heard that women need "permission from a male guardian" for practically everything. Entirely different culture. The groups that oppress women in those countries and the manosphere aren't related.
 
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biscuit

Guest
#5
Well, since you're well informed... have you been to India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia or Africa?
Shouldn't you file your complaint with your local government instead of blaming men. President John F Kennedy ordered a commission to study the progress of women. That commission was headed by Eleanor Roosevelt. The Civil Rights Act gave women equal representation with men. These two programs were initiated before the WLM in the 1960's. And believe it or not, there are many women who feel comfortable with a male president. There are women who hate Hillary Clinton for what she stands for.
 
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Rachel20

Senior Member
May 7, 2013
1,639
106
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#6
Shouldn't you file your complaint with your local government instead of blaming men. President John F Kennedy ordered a commission to study the progress of women. That commission was headed by Eleanor Roosevelt. The Civil Rights Act gave women equal representation with men. These two programs were initiated before the WLM in the 1960's. And believe it or not, there are many women who feel comfortable with a male president. There are women who hate Hillary Clinton for what she stands for.
File a complaint?

Blame men?

I am sorry I don't know what you're getting at but this thread is about the dangers of man-ism, merely the spreading of misogynistic hate by some men who feel threatened by progress of women in society. No one's blaming men.

In fact if you read the OP, it states that gender wars are absolutely ungodly.

Men and women who hate people based on gender, race etc. are clearly going against what God has made and look down on Christ's sacrifice.

Also, for your kind information America is not the entire world. So with regards to American society and politics- some of us just don't have the time to sit and decode it.
 

Rachel20

Senior Member
May 7, 2013
1,639
106
63
#7
The manosphere is almost exclusively an English speaking collective made up of mainly Canadians, American, British, and Australians. It's consists of groups like MRA's, MGTOW's, and the like. There really isn't an equivalent of that in most of the places you mentioned(Except for maybe Africa, it's an entire continent so who knows)

In Saudi Arabia I have heard that women need "permission from a male guardian" for practically everything. Entirely different culture. The groups that oppress women in those countries and the manosphere aren't related.
Thanks for explaining that, but this thread wasn't just about the "manosphere" but the attitude of many men in general.

Hence the term man-ism.
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#8
If I am correct the OP country flag is of India, where less than 3% worship Christ. That's where the core of the problem is. The same can be said of those countries she mentioned.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,164
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#9
Dangers of Manism

I use the term Manism as an umbrella term for all the men's rights movements, misogynists etc that have taken up huge amount of space on the internet. The so-called Manosphere.
Manism. You made that word up, didn't you. Why don't you talk about the dangers of the manosphere? If you mean 'male chauvinism' why not stick to existing terminology?

I'd agree that much of the 'manosphere' is toxic. There may be a small percentage of sites that have some good in them that seek to promote some biblical values or some basic common sense equality in issues related to divorce and child custody. No fault divorce has caused a lot of damage to families, children, men, and women. Some men on the manosophere focus on how this has hurt men. A lot of it is made up of men discussing how to pick up women to fornicate.

And there is a lot of bitterness. A lot of the bitterness on the manosophere is the reaction to the damage caused by Feminism and no-fault divorce.

Manism aims to prove that men are somewhat superior to women and seeks to oppress women by throwing claims like how it was better in the past, when women had no votes and no education.
Can you find one example on the manosphere where anyone has ever said this?

They resent a woman who works, and try to put down all women who do as those who do not care for their families.
Some, not all, male patriarchy folks have a negative attitude toward the idea of women who work outside of the home. It would be rare to find someone who truly believed women shouldn't work.


Some of them, come across as educated and claim fake titles as a means of explaining away feminism to women.

It's actually a term called mansplaining -
"
Mansplaining is a portmanteau of the words "man" and "explaining" that describes the act of a person speaking to a woman with the assumption that she knows less than explainer does about the topic being discussed on the basis of her gender.[1] In 2010 it was named by The New York Times as one of its "Words of the Year."[2] Mansplaining is different from other forms of condescension because mansplaining is rooted in the assumption that, in general, a man is likely to be more knowledgeable than a woman.[3] "
Source - wikipedia.
What does this have to do with 'explaining away feminism' or the rest of your post?

All this is clearly against what the Bible has said.

Galations 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[a] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


The context is about being heirs according to the promises. Concerning Jews and Greek, Paul told readers to walk in what they were called, those in circumcision not to seek to be uncircumcised, and those in uncircumcision not to seek to be circumcised. He went into the temple in Acts 22 in compliance with the request of James and the elders of the Jerusalem church to demonstrate that he was not teaching the Jews living among the Gentiles to forsake the customs and not circumcise their children, while the Gentiles were to abstain from things strangled, and from blood, from meat offered to idols, and from fornication.

Paul wrote for slaves to obey their masters and for masters to treat them justly. He wrote for wives to submit to their husbands, reverence their husbands, that the husband is the head of the wife, and that the husband is to love is wife as Christ loved the church. Peter wrote that a man should treat his wife with honor as the weaker vessel that his prayers be not hindered.

Paul's statement here in Galatians is about being heirs according to the promise, and he does not mean that there are not different roles for these different groups to walk out in this life. To say that would be to contradict his other writings.

To harbour hatred and such resentment against members of the body of Christ, based on gender is terrible!
That is true. It applies to hating women as well as hating men.

Some men even assume that women are like slaves and property to them!
Maybe so. But it seems more common that when men are discussing what the Bible plainly says of how husbands and wives are to relate to one another, feminists overreact by saying, "Women are not men's saves." Or in discussing Ephesians, when one points out that Paul tells believers to submit to one another, and gets more specific about what he means by telling wives to submit to husbands, children to obey their parents, and wives to submit to their husbands, that feminists who don't follow the argument say, "So you think wives are like slaves or children, then?" I usually see the wife=slave argument from feminists who have difficulty following the logic of the discussion or don't pay enough attention to do so. Maybe they know better and just say such things for the rhetorical effect.

However the Bible has said this -

The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife (1 Cor 7:4).
Nice verses. The more extreme feminists should realize it's not rape when a woman has sex with her husband to satisfy his needs, even if she didn't come up with the idea.

They conveniently disregard the verses about two becoming one flesh and one unit, but use the verses on submission to ''lord'' it over women.
It seems like some of the feminists consider a proper balanced view of wives submitting to their husbands as men 'lording' over women. It isn't lording over women for a man to quote verses about this to his wife. I suppose men who do lord over women quote the verses to, but those who don't may quote them without lording over their wives.

The verses about wives submitting to their husbands (which shows up four times in the New Testament, so it must be somewhat important for marriage) are a valid topic of conversation. They are valid verses, verses that should be accepted and followed, truths that must be believed and lived out. So are the verses about two becoming one flesh. Let's accept it all and follow it all.

They don't see women as co-equal heirs to the inheritance of Christ.
I believe Christian women, women who are saints, are co-heirs with men who are saints. I don't know if any two people are 'co-equal' in any aspect. Only God knows that. I suspect that there will be certain women whose inheritance and role in the kingdom will be far greater in the resurrection than some men. Some women are faithful in this life, while some men are less faithful and vice versa.


Such men who go around ''bashing'' women and women's rights have hurt the sentiments of many women.
A lot of the philosophies about 'women's rights' and other people's rights are more based on western political philosophy than scripture.

Having gender wars is definitely not what we as Christians ought to be engaging in.
You wouldn't be intending to start one with this thread, would you?

Christ himself, loved and fellowshiped with many women. It is so special, that when He arose he first appeared to a woman!
He appeared to Mary Magdalene. Truly a great honor for her.

The place of a woman in the family is so important , the command is for husbands to love their wives like Christ loved the church!
It means that a husband ought to give his life for his wife, the way Christ did! Husbands , who aim to be leaders of their households, must be willing to serve, following the example of Christ.
This is very true. Honestly, though, I've never seen men on a discussion group like this try to wiggle out of the fact that men are commanded to love their wives as Christ loves the church. Men may admit what a heavy task that would seem to be. But I've never seen any man try to argue it away and say it doesn't apply, try to redefine 'love' not to mean love.

When the wives submitting to their husband part comes up, there are women who accept that verse and embrace it. But some women, particularly if we are talking about women in the west, who participate in such discussions will try to downplay that verse or argue that it doesn't really mean what it appears to say.


Christ washed the feet of his disciples. This is a thought to ponder. Respect and honour the women in your lives - care for them, love them, comfort them and be a friend.
All good things to do.

Many men do this, those who honour women and who respect them, who in the truest sense of the word would be ''feminists'' of the higher order.
But that's not how the term is used by most in society.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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Getty Images/Thinkstock - People waiting for job interview


AnberGardner:

Professional women should become integrated in the workplace, right?

Blessings.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#13
No matter what awesome modern word you want to call it, the fact remains, women are oppressed around the globe.

Satan is hard at work.
You linked to a protest against pedophilia in relation to an Iraqi law. That would be oppression of little girls, not women. It doesn't make sense to me, why they would even want to legalize marriage for women who are not physically adults. I don't think 18 is the magic number necessarily. In my wife's country, adulthood is at age 17.

I don't have a problem with legally requiring the father's permission for a daughter to marry if he's in the picture. That would seem to be in line with the Old Testament and maybe even New Testament references to marriage.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#14
Many men do this, those who honour women and who respect them, who in the truest sense of the word would be ''feminists'' of the higher order.
Why do you present 'feminist' as a good thing, but 'manism' as a bad thing.

One can be pro-woman without being a feminist.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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#15

Getty Images/Thinkstock - People waiting for job interview


AnberGardner:

Professional women should become integrated in the workplace, right?

Blessings.
Presidente: I agree with Biblical distinctions, but do you really have a problem with women participating equally in the workplace?
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#16
I think by and large, the advent of the feminist movements here in the west partly were a response to the sins of males in the broader culture. At the same time, I think we must be wary to embrace these movements, as even the earliest ones spoke against God quite frequently.

“The bible and the church have been the greatest stumbling block in the way of women's emancipation.”
Elizabeth Caddy Stanton


I'm not a feminist nor will I claim to be one. There is a possibility I could end up running the family farm. If this be the case, I would want my wife to be an excellent XO, me being the CO of course. This means that she would need to learn household duties, as would I, but also duties outside the home. I would teach her to drive a truck, a tractor, etc. I as a leader of the home, need a woman who is equipped to do the same thing I do in my absence. This does not mean she must fulfill my role while I am present. So for example, if I am away from the house the children are her responsibility and for her to discipline and disciple, but as soon as I enter the door or am on the premises, then it is my duty, my responsibility, and I will answer to God for failing to raise the children properly.


EDIT:
I think it is imperative to follow the Titus 2 Model (old teach young), and that men must be exhorted to serve and lead their family by taking responsibility and initiative for the raising of the children and the care of the wife.
 
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Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#17
Is the Bible 'manist'?
The Bible is not manist, except for certain cultural, not universal values. In fact, it is a document which frees women, when correctly translated and interpreted.

For instance, in Gen. 2:18, the word ezer- kenedgo appears.

"And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him." Gen. 2:18 KJV

When an English word like "helper" or "help meet" is used in Gen 2:18, the translational bias of the "men" who translated it comes through and destroys God's plan and meaning for male/female relationships.

in Hebrew, the word is ezer-kenedgo. Kenegdo indicates the woman is the man's match. Literally as "in front of him"! suggests that the new creation of woman is neither a superior nor an inferior, but an equal! She will be the man's strongest ally in pursuing God's purposes.

The word ezer appears 21 times In the Old Testament, twice for the woman in Genesis 2, and three times for nations Israel appealed to for aid (allies!), and 16 times for God as Israel's helper. This upgrades the woman from a mere "helper" to a STRONG helper! In fact, the word ezer is used consistently in a military context!

Putting the facts together, looking at the other uses of the word, the ezer is not a helper, but a warrior. God calls everyone of his children, male and female to put on the armour of God, and stand against the enemy! (Eph. 6:10-17)

God's will was always for the woman to be the man's equal, partner and fellow warrior against evil, sin and the devil. While Adam and Eve failed in the a Garden of Eden to obey God, Christ as restored us, and we need to be living under the New Covenant, and recapture God's vision for women! And men!
 
K

kayem77

Guest
#18
I think by and large, the advent of the feminist movements here in the west partly were a response to the sins of males in the broader culture.
I believe this is true. And I believe this is what happened with the 'Manosphere' also. Opression brings about resentment and hatred, wether it comes from men or woman, so this gender war is no surprise.
 

Rachel20

Senior Member
May 7, 2013
1,639
106
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#19
Presidente,

When you ask me to bring up examples from the manosphere, about hatred towards women with statements like no votes or no education, I will remind you of cases of online internet bullying against women like Kathy Sierra and Anita Sarkeesian. These statements were buzzing around the internet.

They've got rape threats too.
It does happen, and there are scores of sites on the internet and blogs, and you'll just have to wade in the comments. There are too many such instances and I do not have the time to bring each one to your notice. There may be many more women subjected to online harrassment.

The manism term is for this -to bring up the hatred and resentment that many men feel against women in all forms of life. The manosphere is one aspect of it.
Mansplaining too is really hurtful to women. It is condescension to women. It wounds.

It must not be that way and vice versa. Women shouldn't be doing this either. More so as Christians.

We ought to love one another. We ought to respect each other as human beings, and not for the way we look, or our positions in society. God made us all.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,164
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#20
Presidente: I agree with Biblical distinctions, but do you really have a problem with women participating equally in the workplace?
In general, no. But I wouldn't call it 'oppression' for a society to have sharper gender distinctions in work roles than the United States has. But I do think the US has gone way too far with doing away with gender distinctions. I think it is a good idea to keep women out of combat and definitely do not want to see women drafted. I'm a bit concerned the country could some day draft women based on the current philosophy as it applies to gender. I think employers should have more freedom in regard to who they hire, too, without interference from the government, mainly because of some of the 'gay rights' stuff going on. Public sentiment is a powerful enough force for those sorts of issues, IMO.
 
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