The Sabbath is Here!

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KohenMatt said:
I don't consider the Sabbath as "The Lord's Day". Those are 2 different days. The Sabbath was established by God in the beginning as a 7th day. The Lord's day wasn't established (if established at all, but that's another topic) by God until the NT. I encourage all believers to fellowship and worship any and everyday of the week, but the 7th day Sabbath is a day set apart by God .
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Unless one is referring to the day of the Lord's wrath I do think it's long established and is always the Sabbath. I believe it's the Roman Catholics who claim the Lord's day is Sunday in Revelation 1 and the protestants at that point in time followed suit and have not re-examined their interpretation.
 
john832 said:
See #117 above
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"If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." (Hebrews 7.11-12)


"For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God." (Hebrews 7.18-19)

I'm not Reformed. Verses such as these make me dispensational.
 
faroukfarouk said:
"If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." (Hebrews 7.11-12)


"For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God." (Hebrews 7.18-19)

I'm not Reformed. Verses such as these make me dispensational.
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These verses are referring to a change in the Priesthood. All one has to do is read the entire chapter.
 
john832 said:
These verses are referring to a change in the Priesthood. All one has to do is read the entire chapter.
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I'm not under the law. I'm under the 'better hope', and this is how I draw near to God. Titus speaks of 'everlasting consolation and good hope through grace'.
 
Grandpa said:
I would say you definitely have a misunderstanding.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Not under the law? when did that happen???
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I would say you might want to duck Deuteronomy 30:11-14.
If one understands the meaning of under the weather one would probably understand the meaning of under the law. Are you under the law in where you live? Only when you have offended the law, got caught, found guilty and have to serve the time.
Of course USA, the whole North America for that matter, will soon become lawless and the criminals will soon be under grace.
 
faroukfarouk said:
I'm not under the law. I'm under the 'better hope', and this is how I draw near to God. Titus speaks of 'everlasting consolation and good hope through grace'.
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"Under the Law" for Salvation? You're right.

Instructed to follow the Law? Yes, we are.

Matthew 5: 17-19

“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Very simple concept. Jesus told His disciples to follow the Law and teach others to do so. Any other opinion that the Bible teaches otherwise is wrong.

 
KohenMatt said:
"Under the Law" for Salvation? You're right.

Instructed to follow the Law? Yes, we are.

Matthew 5: 17-19

“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Very simple concept. Jesus told His disciples to follow the Law and teach others to do so. Any other opinion that the Bible teaches otherwise is wrong.
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Hebrews 7.19
 
faroukfarouk said:
I'm not under the law. I'm under the 'better hope', and this is how I draw near to God. Titus speaks of 'everlasting consolation and good hope through grace'.
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One is not under the law because someone has taken the punishment not because the law is no more.
 
KohenMatt said:
The only situation where someone is required to keep the who law is if they are trusting in that for their salvation. Salvation is us being seen as perfect and cleansed in God's sight so that we can enjoy fellowship with him. If you don't have Jesus, you need to be blameless on your own to be perfect in God's eyes. That means you have to follow the law perfectly and do it all. If your salvation is by grace through faith, you can obey the law in the parts that are applicable without having to do follow the whole thing.

Matt
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Galatians 5:1-3
[SUP]1[/SUP]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

You're not concerned with being entangled again with the yoke of bondage? You don't know that you are a debtor to do the whole law?

The law is not to be trifled with. You can't just cherry pick. It has a direct purpose. Not one jot or one tittle has been taken from the law.

Just out of curiousity, what laws do you think aren't applicable and which do you think are applicable? It baffles me how people think some of the law is done and some of it still applies. Its like trying to hedge your bet. The bible says that is a no-no. You are either all-in or you fold... In it to win it...

I really like people who hold Gods Law in high esteem. It shows how much respect they have for God. I really like all these Jewish Roots people and the Lawyers and Pharisees. They are so close to understanding who Jesus is and what He came for. But then at the end they keep choosing to hold on to those heavy burdens. I wonder if its because of pride. I can handle this, I can do this. Everyone else is disobedient and weak...
 
Grandpa said:
Galatians 5:1-3
[SUP]1[/SUP]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

You're not concerned with being entangled again with the yoke of bondage? You don't know that you are a debtor to do the whole law?

....
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Peter's vision in Acts 15 also established clearly that those not under the law were not to be regarded as unclean.

The Lord Jesus perfectly fulfilled the law, but, now, being in Christ by grace through faith does not mean going back under the law.
 
john832 said:
So, free to murder or commit adultery? Of free from the death penalty that disobedience to the Law brings.

Tell me Gramps, if someone breaks into your home tonight, has his way with your wife, steals all your stuff and beats you to a bloody pulp, will you say "that's just fine, we are not under the Law"?
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There is only one way to not be under the Law.

That is by coming to the Lord Jesus Christ and being born again of the Spirit.

I wouldn't ever say "we" are not under law. I would say Christians who have come to Christ and have been born again are not under law.

Obviously someone that commits atrocities against others has not been born again. Wouldn't you say?
 
Grandpa said:
Galatians 5:1-3
[SUP]1[/SUP]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

You're not concerned with being entangled again with the yoke of bondage? You don't know that you are a debtor to do the whole law?

The law is not to be trifled with. You can't just cherry pick. It has a direct purpose. Not one jot or one tittle has been taken from the law.

Just out of curiousity, what laws do you think aren't applicable and which do you think are applicable? It baffles me how people think some of the law is done and some of it still applies. Its like trying to hedge your bet. The bible says that is a no-no. You are either all-in or you fold... In it to win it...

I really like people who hold Gods Law in high esteem. It shows how much respect they have for God. I really like all these Jewish Roots people and the Lawyers and Pharisees. They are so close to understanding who Jesus is and what He came for. But then at the end they keep choosing to hold on to those heavy burdens. I wonder if its because of pride. I can handle this, I can do this. Everyone else is disobedient and weak...
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You're talking about folks who follow the law for Salvation. Again, I'm not saying that. My salvation lies in nothing but grace. That said, Jesus still says,

“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

It doesn't really matter what you think Paul says. If Jesus says to follow the Law, then Paul agrees with Him. If you think Paul is contradicting Jesus' words, then you need to rethink a lot of things.
 
KohenMatt said:
You're talking about folks who follow the law for Salvation. Again, I'm not saying that. My salvation lies in nothing but grace. That said, Jesus still says,

“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

It doesn't really matter what you think Paul says. If Jesus says to follow the Law, then Paul agrees with Him. If you think Paul is contradicting Jesus' words, then you need to rethink a lot of things.
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...but being under the law in the Jewish sense is not the same as resting in the righteousness of God imputed to the believer by faith.

Circumcision: a Jewish, legal requirement which, however, is no requirement of mine, under grace.

Sabbath: a Jewish, legal requirement which, however, is no requirement of mine, under grace.

We could go on and on...
 
KohenMatt said:
You're talking about folks who follow the law for Salvation. Again, I'm not saying that. My salvation lies in nothing but grace. That said, Jesus still says,

“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

It doesn't really matter what you think Paul says. If Jesus says to follow the Law, then Paul agrees with Him. If you think Paul is contradicting Jesus' words, then you need to rethink a lot of things.
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No. Galatians 5 isn't about people who follow the law for salvation.

Galatians 5 was written to people who believed in Christ and yet thought that they could go back to the shadow of Judaism to be "truly" obedient.
 
faroukfarouk said:
Peter's vision in Acts 15 also established clearly that those not under the law were not to be regarded as unclean.

The Lord Jesus perfectly fulfilled the law, but, now, being in Christ by grace through faith does not mean going back under the law.
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Do not call un-clean what I have made clean.

Acts 10
 
Grandpa said:
No. Galatians 5 isn't about people who follow the law for salvation.

Galatians 5 was written to people who believed in Christ and yet thought that they could go back to the shadow of Judaism to be "truly" obedient.
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So who's correct?
Jesus telling His disciples to follow the Law?
Or Paul, who is supposedly saying not to?
 
faroukfarouk said:
There is a distinction to being under the law, and to recognizing that the Lord Jesus is the perfect fulfillment of the law.
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Exactly.

Jesus is the perfect fulfillment of the law, and the perfect sacrifice.

And that's why we walk in obedience to His commands, because He first loved us.
 
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