True Born Again Christians Have Eternal Security

[svedbygrace]

Departure of the Faith !

Deut 33:3

Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.

None in antichrist false religion dishonors and attack the Power of God more than false teachers and brethren who believe and teach a saved person, one of God's Saints can be Lost into perdition. They are of those Paul warns us of that have a mere form of Godliness, but deny the Power thereof 2 Tim 3:5


5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

For it is God's Power, Ability, and Strength that is engaged in behalf of Believers that keeps them God's People, Jesus said so Himself Jn 10:27-29

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Jesus here is teaching nothing different than what was taught concerning the Saints of Old in the OT as Per Deut 33:3

Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.

Thats saying the same as Jesus is saying of the Sheep Jn 10:29

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

The Wise man Solomon once wrote Ecclesiastes 9:1

For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them.

The Righteous and the Wise are those whom have been made Righteous and wise by the obedience of Jesus Christ and through the scripture. Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

2 Tim 3:15

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

They are in the Hand of God ! 91

 

[svedbygrace]

Departure of the Faith !2


For it is God's Power, Ability, and Strength that is engaged in behalf of Believers that keeps them God's People, Jesus said so Himself Jn 10:27-29

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Here again we have those who Christ calls His Sheep, for He owns and possesses them. They hear His voice, obeys His commands and follows Him, and He says plainly, that in this state [of following Him] a stranger they will no longer follow Jn 10:4-5

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

That promise ensures they will not apostatize as those here 1 Tim 4:1

That word follow in Vs 4 is the greek word akoloutheō:


1) to follow one who precedes, join him as his attendant, accompany him

2) to join one as a disciple, become or be his disciple

a) side with his party

So the Sheep of Christ who hears His voice and follows Him, they will never join up with false teachers again, or become followers of their doctrines, which is the complete opposite of those in1 Tim 4:1 who give heed to seducing spirits and depart from the faith ! Obviously thy were not Christ's Sheep or Christ is found to be lying here in Jn 10:4-5 !

But Christ also proclaims their [ The Sheep] security, they shall never never perish, Christ their merciful Shepherd will never forsake them, and then they are secure because of the GREATNESS of their Father Jn 10:29

29 My Father[And theirs Jn 20:17], which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Now if for any reason at all they come out from under the Security and Greatness of the Fathers Hand, then His Power and Ability to secure them has been compromised and His greatness is reduced to dishonor !92

 

[BradC]

Departure of the Faith !2


For it is God's Power, Ability, and Strength that is engaged in behalf of Believers that keeps them God's People, Jesus said so Himself Jn 10:27-29

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Here again we have those who Christ calls His Sheep, for He owns and possesses them. They hear His voice, obeys His commands and follows Him, and He says plainly, that in this state [of following Him] a stranger they will no longer follow Jn 10:4-5

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

That promise ensures they will not apostatize as those here 1 Tim 4:1

That word follow in Vs 4 is the greek word akoloutheō:


1) to follow one who precedes, join him as his attendant, accompany him

2) to join one as a disciple, become or be his disciple

a) side with his party

So the Sheep of Christ who hears His voice and follows Him, they will never join up with false teachers again, or become followers of their doctrines, which is the complete opposite of those in1 Tim 4:1 who give heed to seducing spirits and depart from the faith ! Obviously thy were not Christ's Sheep or Christ is found to be lying here in Jn 10:4-5 !

But Christ also proclaims their [ The Sheep] security, they shall never never perish, Christ their merciful Shepherd will never forsake them, and then they are secure because of the GREATNESS of their Father Jn 10:29

29 My Father[And theirs Jn 20:17], which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Now if for any reason at all they come out from under the Security and Greatness of the Fathers Hand, then
His Power and Ability to secure them has been compromised and His greatness is reduced to dishonor !92

You have never understood the immutability of God's nature and grace that places us in Christ when we first believe and trust Christ as a sinner. It was God Almighty that placed us in Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit. He justified us, cleansed us, made us a new creature, gave us a new birth, hid us in Christ with Himself, sealed us unto the day of redemption, made us holy and complete in Him, gave us His righteousness, removed wrath and condemnation from us and made it so that nothing can separate us from the love of God that has saved us through His Son. It is His power that keeps us in Christ and He has promised to never leave or forsake us or allow any man to pluck us out of His hand or the hand of the Son. Once we are placed it Christ there is not a power in heaven, in earth or under the earth that can remove or separate us from that position, not the will of man nor even by the will of God himself.

 

[svedbygrace]

brad

You have never understood the immutability of God's nature and grace that places us in Christ when we first believe and trust Christ as a sinner.

You quoted a post of mine and then evaded the points made. Please review with me the points I made and how I explained them ! Thanks !

 

[biscuit]

I believe the key evidence: is the individual truly saved and not mocking God? Please remember, God knows our hearts and will not be mocked with words or action. A new creature in Christ is exactly that: a new creature that has left behind his or her selfish, sinned ways. I will give you a scenario: you can fill the Rose Bowl with 108,000 of the worst sinners: witches, warlocks, murders, pedophiles, and etc., and they all take a vow to be reborn in Jesus' name but go back to their evil ways. Do they have eternal life with Jesus. Absolutely not!! because they were truly never saved ... just mocked God. I believe many Christians are not saved for the same reason. I just can't see the Holy Ghost filling the temples of Satan's 108,000 disciples. We have so many so-called Christians who have abandoned Him, rejected Him and blasphemed Him, and then wonder why Jesus won't answer their calls. Are all of them saved? some of them are and they just need to repent and re-establish their relationship with Jesus, while others need to repent and be reborn again. Be saved with eternal life is a "fine line" and not automatic as many Christian think. A typical example of a Christian who is saved are the ones who will not go back to their sinful ways and through repentance will ask Jesus to help them to break those other difficult sins. Repentance is a big endeavor for reborn Christians who will find Jesus there when they call Him for help. I believe this is why Jesus will answer calls to his "faithful followers" over those who do not follow the true definition of a reborn Christian. Every time I read about the rapture I get a feeling the number will be small, very small because the scripture indicate along the line of millions. However, the largest reborn revival in the history of mankind will take place during tribulation, probably a thousand time larger than the members of Church that was raptured.

 

[SeaBass]

I see that from your post you do not understand that Christians in this dispensation (the Church Age) are sealed with the Holy Spirit (See Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30) and therefore are Eternally Secure. Every true Christian in this dispensation known as the church age, has eternal security. So, no a Christian cannot lose his or her salvation or be "Un-Born Again." Once a person gets saved, he becomes a part of the Body of Christ and he is now bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh (See Ephesians 5:30).

Seals can be broken. About 25-30 years later the church at Ephesus had fallen, left it's first love and threatened that theyrepent orhave thier candlestick (church) remived, it would no longer be recognized by God as His church, Rev 2:1-7

And those verses which you gave in your thread on Hebrews 6 do not apply doctrinally to a Born Again Christian in the Church Age. Hebrews 6:4-6 applies doctrinally to a saved Jew (Tribulation Saint) in the time of Jacob's trouble. You see Aniohevtorah, Hebrews is not written to a Christian in the Church Age, but it is written to the Jews. That's why you need to rightly divide the word of truth (See 2 Timothy 2:15). If you are to understand Sound Bible Doctrine, then you must study the Bible dispensationally. There are several divisions and dispensations in the Scriptures and when you do not rightly divide the word, you make a big mess of the Bible. Hebrews (the title alone) should be a hint to you that this book is written to and addresses the Hebrews. Not Gentile Christians.

The theme of the Hebrew epistle is the Hebrew writer warns those Hebrew Christians about becoming lost by leaving Christ and His NT gospel and returning back to Judaism.

Heedngs and warnings:

Heb 2:1-3
Heb 3:12-15
Heb 4:1,11
Heb 5:12-14 they had not been growing as Christians should which leads to the admonition in Heb 6:4-6 about how a Christian can so fall away that it can become impossible for him to come to repentance.

This was addressed to Christains that were Hebrew but it is just as true to any Christian (verses 4,5 is a desription of ALL Christians) that can depart from God in unbelief, Heb 4:11. No verse says Gentile Christians were immune from this falling away in unbelief. Paul warned Gentile Christians in Rom 11:20,21 "Well; because of unbelief they (fleshly Israel) were broken off, and thou (Gentile Chrisitians) standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee." God cut off fleshly israel from being His chosen and He could cut-off these new Gentile Christians also if they got high-minded and did not fear God.

 

[BradC]

brad



You quoted a post of mine and then evaded the points made. Please review with me the points I made and how I explained them ! Thanks !

There is nothing to review.

 

[paulsfam4]

[h=3]Matthew 12:31-32 so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.[/h]

 

[paulsfam4]

I believe that if you are truly saved you would never walk away from god. but if you are saved and continue to sin God will direct us and for me that means you fear what God would do

 

[CRC]

“Once Saved, Always Saved”?
Notice the inspired warning of the disciple Jude. He wrote: “Beloved ones, though I was making every effort to write you about the salvation we hold in common, I found it necessary to write you to exhort you to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones.” (Jude 3) Why did Jude write this? Because he knew that individual Christians could still lose the ‘salvation they hold in common.’ He went on to say: “I desire to remind you . . . that Jehovah, although he saved a people [the Israelites] out of the land of Egypt, afterwards destroyed those not showing faith.”—Jude 5.
Jude’s warning would be pointless if Christians did not face a danger similar to that of those Israelites. Jude was not questioning the value of Jesus’ sacrifice. That sacrifice has saved us from Adamic sin, and Jesus will protect those who exercise faith in him. No one can snatch them out of his hand. But we can lose that protection. How? By doing what was done by many Israelites who were saved from Egypt. We can deliberately choose to disobey God.—Deuteronomy 30:19, 20.

 

[biscuit]

“Once Saved, Always Saved”?
Notice the inspired warning of the disciple Jude. He wrote: “Beloved ones, though I was making every effort to write you about the salvation we hold in common, I found it necessary to write you to exhort you to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones.” (Jude 3) Why did Jude write this? Because he knew that individual Christians could still lose the ‘salvation they hold in common.’ He went on to say: “I desire to remind you . . . that Jehovah, although he saved a people [the Israelites] out of the land of Egypt, afterwards destroyed those not showing faith.”—Jude 5.
Jude’s warning would be pointless if Christians did not face a danger similar to that of those Israelites. Jude was not questioning the value of Jesus’ sacrifice. That sacrifice has saved us from Adamic sin, and Jesus will protect those who exercise faith in him. No one can snatch them out of his hand. But we can lose that protection. How? By doing what was done by many Israelites who were saved from Egypt. We can deliberately choose to disobey God.—Deuteronomy 30:19, 20.

Excellent Post !!

 

[homwardbound]

I believe the key evidence: is the individual truly saved and not mocking God? Please remember, God knows our hearts and will not be mocked with words or action. A new creature in Christ is exactly that: a new creature that has left behind his or her selfish, sinned ways. I will give you a scenario: you can fill the Rose Bowl with 108,000 of the worst sinners: witches, warlocks, murders, pedophiles, and etc., and they all take a vow to be reborn in Jesus' name but go back to their evil ways. Do they have eternal life with Jesus. Absolutely not!! because they were truly never saved ... just mocked God. I believe many Christians are not saved for the same reason. I just can't see the Holy Ghost filling the temples of Satan's 108,000 disciples. We have so many so-called Christians who have abandoned Him, rejected Him and blasphemed Him, and then wonder why Jesus won't answer their calls. Are all of them saved? some of them are and they just need to repent and re-establish their relationship with Jesus, while others need to repent and be reborn again. Be saved with eternal life is a "fine line" and not automatic as many Christian think. A typical example of a Christian who is saved are the ones who will not go back to their sinful ways and through repentance will ask Jesus to help them to break those other difficult sins. Repentance is a big endeavor for reborn Christians who will find Jesus there when they call Him for help. I believe this is why Jesus will answer calls to his "faithful followers" over those who do not follow the true definition of a reborn Christian. Every time I read about the rapture I get a feeling the number will be small, very small because the scripture indicate along the line of millions. However, the largest reborn revival in the history of mankind will take place during tribulation, probably a thousand time larger than the members of Church that was raptured.

Bottom line:
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

 

[homwardbound]

Seals can be broken. About 25-30 years later the church at Ephesus had fallen, left it's first love and threatened that theyrepent orhave thier candlestick (church) remived, it would no longer be recognized by God as His church, Rev 2:1-7





The theme of the Hebrew epistle is the Hebrew writer warns those Hebrew Christians about becoming lost by leaving Christ and His NT gospel and returning back to Judaism.

Heedngs and warnings:

Heb 2:1-3
Heb 3:12-15
Heb 4:1,11
Heb 5:12-14 they had not been growing as Christians should which leads to the admonition in Heb 6:4-6 about how a Christian can so fall away that it can become impossible for him to come to repentance.

This was addressed to Christains that were Hebrew but it is just as true to any Christian (verses 4,5 is a desription of ALL Christians) that can depart from God in unbelief, Heb 4:11. No verse says Gentile Christians were immune from this falling away in unbelief. Paul warned Gentile Christians in Rom 11:20,21 "Well; because of unbelief they (fleshly Israel) were broken off, and thou (Gentile Chrisitians) standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee." God cut off fleshly israel from being His chosen and He could cut-off these new Gentile Christians also if they got high-minded and did not fear God.

All flesh seals can and are broken over and over, but God's seal can never be broken, and this seal, the Holy Spirit of truth from God is not ever broken, God is not the liar, man is

 

[homwardbound]

I believe that if you are truly saved you would never walk away from god. but if you are saved and continue to sin God will direct us and for me that means you fear what God would do

If one is going to fear then fear God who can destroy body and Soul, and only God the creator can do this.
then as one gets to know Father as Father shows this truth of Father's love through Son, we see ultimate friendship. And walk by trust as Christ did in the power of God through the Holy Spirit that led him, is still here today to lead us if we are willing to be led. Then we walk as Christ walked

 

[homwardbound]

“Once Saved, Always Saved”?
Notice the inspired warning of the disciple Jude. He wrote: “Beloved ones, though I was making every effort to write you about the salvation we hold in common, I found it necessary to write you to exhort you to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones.” (Jude 3) Why did Jude write this? Because he knew that individual Christians could still lose the ‘salvation they hold in common.’ He went on to say: “I desire to remind you . . . that Jehovah, although he saved a people [the Israelites] out of the land of Egypt, afterwards destroyed those not showing faith.”—Jude 5.
Jude’s warning would be pointless if Christians did not face a danger similar to that of those Israelites. Jude was not questioning the value of Jesus’ sacrifice. That sacrifice has saved us from Adamic sin, and Jesus will protect those who exercise faith in him. No one can snatch them out of his hand. But we can lose that protection. How? By doing what was done by many Israelites who were saved from Egypt. We can deliberately choose to disobey God.—Deuteronomy 30:19, 20.

Yes we can, we are set free in Christ's finished work before Father, we are made righteous in Father's sight through Son's final sacrifice for sin, and last shedding of blood, it is finished
So now all things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial. This freedom given to us to trust God or not through Son's finished work at the cross, includes resurrection, for the new life Father gives us through the death.

Why would anyone that wants to be free pass this up, a free gift, and seek their own righteousness, when God the Father is the only one righteous?

 

[SeaBass]

All flesh seals can and are broken over and over, but God's seal can never be broken, and this seal, the Holy Spirit of truth from God is not ever broken, God is not the liar, man is

I disagree.

Again, the church at Ephesus was "sealed" but what happen to it by the time Rev 2 was written?

God has never promised "unconditional" salvation to anyone.

 

[notuptome]

I disagree.

Again, the church at Ephesus was "sealed" but what happen to it by the time Rev 2 was written?

God has never promised "unconditional" salvation to anyone.

Well that would make Jesus out to be a liar. Jesus promise everlasting life. To be everlasting it cannot have an end. The only condition was to receive Jesus as Savior. Believe in Him. These things are written that you may know that you have eternal life.

Churches are not saved but individuals are saved. Salvation is always personal not corporate.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[svedbygrace]

There is nothing to review.

That makes you look foolish for quoting it !

 

[BradC]

That makes you look foolish for quoting it !

I sincerely do not know what you are referring to because I found nothing to review. Maybe you could point it out, that would be helpful.

 

[SeaBass]

Well that would make Jesus out to be a liar. Jesus promise everlasting life. To be everlasting it cannot have an end. The only condition was to receive Jesus as Savior. Believe in Him. These things are written that you may know that you have eternal life.

Churches are not saved but individuals are saved. Salvation is always personal not corporate.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Jesus never made a UNCONDITIONAL promise of everlasting life.

Everlasting life is everlasting whether I possess the promise of it or not.

1 Jn 5:13 "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

The verb believe is present tense denoting a sustained ongoing belief. So one can conditionally have eternal life as long as he believes. One can also know if he quits believing he no longer has eternal life.

Eph 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body".

Christ is the Saviour of the body, which is the church. So the church is what is saved, so if an individual has a desire to be saved, then he must be in the church/the body. No individual can be saved separate, apart from that corporate body, the church.