Repentance Vs Eternal Security

[SeaBass]

Yes I believe so because my heart was wanting to work with God to overcome it. God is patient and long suffering with us yeah?

Lk 13:3,5 Jesus said repent or perish.

How many unrepented, unforgiven sins can one take into heaven with him?

 

[SeaBass]

To be clear Sea Bass...are you saying you believe you can loose your salvation? Not being mouthy just asking.

If a Christian does not repent of his sins, then those sins will cause him to be lost.

 

[SeaBass]

Hmm maybe a better title for this thread be how Repentance to the LORD gives us security rather then Repentance vs Security. I always kinda viewed this as a process with one leading to the other.

So without the repentance to the Lord there is no security?

 

[SeaBass]

Do you have scripture to support this? If there is no law, there is no accountability for sin, everyone would still be stuck in their sin and not know it (Romans 5:13).

Rom 4:15 "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression"

Rom 5:13 "(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

1 Jn 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law"

Since Christians do sin, 1 Jn 1:6-10, they must be under law.

 

[Grandpa]

Were you saved by God or by your works?

If you were saved by God then God would have to unsave you.

If you were saved by your works then your works could unsave you.

I was saved by God, thankfully. And He doesn't repent of His Gifts. Did you forget that salvation is a gift???

God doesn't take back His Gifts. Did you know that?

 

[Alligator]

I am not calvanist. And once saved always saved did not origionate with calvin, It origionated in scripture.

No, it originated by a twisting of the scriptures

 

[SeaBass]

Were you saved by God or by your works?

If you were saved by God then God would have to unsave you.

If you were saved by your works then your works could unsave you.

I was saved by God, thankfully. And He doesn't repent of His Gifts. Did you forget that salvation is a gift???

God doesn't take back His Gifts. Did you know that?

God saves, but who does He save? Those that do nothing about their sins or those that obediently repent of their sins? Lk 13:3,5; Acts 2:28. In Rom 2 Paul says the impenitent will be lost, not saved.

For one already a Christian, John said if he walks in the light then Christ's blood cleanse him from all sin.

Walking is a work that must take place for all sin to be cleansed. John said IF, a conditional word, a Christian therefore can choose to quit walking in the light and his sins will no longer be cleansed by the blood of Christ.

 

[Alligator]

Were you saved by God or by your works?

If you were saved by God then God would have to unsave you.

If you were saved by your works then your works could unsave you.

I was saved by God, thankfully. And He doesn't repent of His Gifts. Did you forget that salvation is a gift???

God doesn't take back His Gifts. Did you know that?

But we can unsave ourselves. But we can reject His gift.

 

[faroukfarouk]

But we can unsave ourselves. But we can reject His gift.

No; someone who is lost, was never saved in the first place. Paul to the Philippians says, in chapter 1, 'He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ'.

 

[Alligator]

No; someone who is lost, was never saved in the first place. Paul to the Philippians says, in chapter 1, 'He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ'.

i realize that is the standard reply.Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
O
That's a pretty strong verse, how can you fall from somewhere you never been?

 

[Alligator]

God saves, but who does He save? Those that do nothing about their sins or those that obediently repent of their sins? Lk 13:3,5; Acts 2:28. In Rom 2 Paul says the impenitent will be lost, not saved.

For one already a Christian, John said if he walks in the light then Christ's blood cleanse him from all sin.

Walking is a work that must take place for all sin to be cleansed. John said IF, a conditional word, a Christian therefore can choose to quit walking in the light and his sins will no longer be cleansed by the blood of Christ.

All. I can say to that is a big amen.

 

[BradC]

Repent metanoeō :

Thayer's Lexicon:

--To change one's mind,

--Used esp. of those who, conscious of their sins and with manifest tokens of sorrow, are intent on obtaining God's pardon

--To change one's mind for the better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

--Conduct worthy of a heart change and abhorring sin

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G3340&t=KJV


Matthew 3:8 "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:"

Acts 26:20 "But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance."

Luke 13:3,5 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish".



Can a Christian commit a sin such as theft, keep the stolen property yet maintain his salvation? Or must he do "works meet for repentance" by making reparation by returning the stolen property to its rightful owner or else be lost?

If a Christian is under law.. No he could not. For a sacrifice would have to be given to make propitiation and pay the price of redemption for that sin. Thus he would lose salvation until that sacrifice is given.

If a Christian is under grace. No. He never earned it to begin with, He can never do anything to keep it. If we could do something to earn salvation. Then we would no longer need grace.

As for repenting. It means a change of heart. One can not repent. Then unrepent, Then repent again They either repented and agree with God that sin is sin and has caused them to be dead (the penalty of sin) or they have not.

This repent over and over and over every time you sin is not from God. and not even possible for you can not even know every sin you ever commited to continue to repent.

In addition to the one who stole who is now under grace, he comes under the conviction of the Spirit and should restore back what he has stolen (and then some). If he does not he will grieve the Spirit and will not be able to grow in grace until that is taken care of. He does this by faith in response to the conviction he received from the Spirit.

 

[faroukfarouk]

i realize that is the standard reply.Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
O
That's a pretty strong verse, how can you fall from somewhere you never been?

Paul is identifying faulty reasoning, if one reads the whole passage. He is not saying to the Galatian Christians: You, you guys! you are fallen from grace.

It boils down to what is a Christian? Who does the saving?

If it really depends on us, or only partly on the grace of God, then there is absolutely no hope for any of us.

Paul also speaks of 'the obedience of faith', and when we follow the Lord in obedience, this is not to gain credit for our own merits, this is God working in us by His grace.

Romans 8.38-39 is clear about the believer's security.

Those who live and die in sin, whatever their bloviating about religion, were never saved in the first place.

 

[Vernon]

Once you are a child of God, how can you not be a child of God?
If you are 'born again' how can you be unborn?

Look at our existence on this earth, we were born into this world and nothing we do can change our birth or who our biological parents are, in the same way once you are born from above nothing you do can change that reality.

Those who are born from above are contrite and humble, they pray to God continually, they ask God daily to forgive them their trespasses as they forgive those who trespass against them. They love God and love one another. They submit themselves to the Lordship of Jesus Christ and follow his example of sacrificial love, desiring that none would perish but that all would come to repentance.
In all this we say to God we are unworthy servants, for we only do what is expected of us to do.

Our relationship to God is that of a Father and his sons and daughters, not that of slaves submitting to their Master. We are one flesh with Jesus Christ, we are spiritually married to Jesus (and the two shall become one flesh), and what God has brought together let no man separate.

If you view God as a Master who has made Laws to follow and those slaves who disobey his laws are in danger of hell, then you do not follow or know the God revealed in Jesus Christ, but are following an evil god who hates his slaves and desires they all perish (the devil).

Those who are born from above do not obey his commandments out of fear of being destroyed, but we obey his word because we love God and do not want to disappoint him, we want to please him because we love him and God loves us. He does not want to destroy anyone, least of all his own children. He allowed his only begotten Son to suffer and die for the sins of the world that he might save the world. He did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but to save us because he loves us.

Those who are destroyed are not destroyed because they sinned (disobeyed his commandments), but rather they are destroyed because they refused to love God, but loved the darkness of this world and desired to remain separated from Him, refusing to come to his light. Jesus died for all the sins of the world. All that God asks of humanity is for them to love Him and to love one another. All sins are forgiven in Jesus Christ.

It is not a matter of repentance vs eternal security, those who repent and believe the gospel are born from above and have eternal security. Those who refuse to repent and believe the gospel will be destroyed and receive what they desire 'eternal separation from God'.

Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy.

 

[Alligator]

Paul is identifying faulty reasoning, if one reads the whole passage. He is not saying to the Galatian Christians: You, you guys! you are fallen from grace.

It boils down to what is a Christian? Who does the saving?

If it really depends on us, or only partly on the grace of God, then there is absolutely no hope for any of us.

Paul also speaks of 'the obedience of faith', and when we follow the Lord in obedience, this is not to gain credit for our own merits, this is God working in us by His grace.

Romans 8.38-39 is clear about the believer's security.

Those who live and die in sin, whatever their bloviating about religion, were never saved in the first

I don't know how that scripture could be any clearer. If you continue to hold to the old law, you will be cut off, one version says severed from grace.Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation,. which shall devour the adversaries.

2 Peter 2:20-22 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Paul is identifying faulty reasoning, if one reads the whole passage. He is not saying to the Galatian Christians: You, you guys! you are fallen from grace.

It boils down to what is a Christian? Who does the saving?

If it really depends on us, or only partly on the grace of God, then there is absolutely no hope for any of us.

Paul also speaks of 'the obedience of faith', and when we follow the Lord in obedience, this is not to gain credit for our own merits, this is God working in us by His grace.

Romans 8.38-39 is clear about the believer's security.

Those who live and die in sin, whatever their bloviating about religion, were never saved in the first

I don't know how that scripture could be any clearer. If you continue to hold to the old law, you will be cut off, one version says severed from grace.Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation,. which shall devour the adversaries.

2 Peter 2:20-22 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

How can those people have been truly saved in the first place? they were enlightened, but not redeemed.

Paul is most clear about eternal security in Romans 8.38-39

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Do you really think that scripture means what it says? It would make life a lot easier if we could make it find a way to say the law telling us about sin is abolished, maybe we could manage to get it to say sin is abolished. Maybe someone will believe it says grace abolished sin? That sounds good. It just takes adding a word here and there to scripture.

I will stick with you, Alligator. Habitual sin causes one to be lost like it says.

Hi RedTent:

So what you are saying is once we are born again - we sin - God removes the gift of holy Spirit, the new birth from us? Then when we confess that sin - he puts it back in - oops then we sin again - he removes it - we confess - he puts it back in . . . ? Once we are "born" of something how can that "incorruptible seed" be destroyed or removed? God gives us the gift of holy Spirit and then takes it back? As I said before - No matter how bad my children are - they are still my children - NOTHING CAN CHANGE THAT - How much bigger is God!

Now is that using grace to excuse sin - God forbid! The thing is while we are in this earthly body, the flesh, we will fail. We know that "in the flesh is no good thing" however, being born again of God's Spirit we endeavor to walk by the Spirit but it is a battle between the flesh and the Spirit and we will live in the flesh until Christ's return. So yes, we run the race with the intention of finishing the race . . . we will more than likely fall down but we just pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off (forgiveness) and start all over again. Thank God that each day is a new beginning!

 

[faroukfarouk]

Hi RedTent:

So what you are saying is once we are born again - we sin - God removes the the gift of holy Spirit, the new birth from us? Then when we confess that sin - he puts it back in - oops then we sin again - he removes it - we confess - he puts it back in . . . ? Once we are "born" of something how can that "incorruptible seed" be destroyed or removed? God gives us the gift of holy Spirit and then takes it back? As I said before - No matter how bad my children are - they are still my children - NOTHING CAN CHANGE THAT - How much bigger is God!

Now is that using grace to excuse sin - God forbid! The thing is while we are in this earthly body, the flesh, we will fail. We know that "in the flesh is no good thing" however, being born again of God's Spirit we endeavor to walk by the Spirit but it is a battle between the flesh and the Spirit and we will live in the flesh until Christ's return. So yes, we run the race with the intention of finishing the race . . . we will more than likely fall down but we just pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off (forgiveness) and start all over again. Thank God that each day is a new beginning!

Hi Ms. peacefulbeliever:

I love what Paul says in Philippians 1: "He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".

It's all about our faithful, promise keeping Savior keeping His gracious promises, and not whether my efforts are supposedly credited with enough personal merit to 'stay saved'.

Blessings.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jn 1:17 "law" refers to the law of Moses and "grace" refers to the NT law of Christ.

God never offered His grace unconditionally. People sin for they are under law which they transgress.

lol.. So I guess no one was saved before Christ came.

The law of Christ is the law of moses. (not the ten) We are saved no by works of righteousness which we have (will or are) done. But by the washing and renewal of the HS.

But hey, if yuo want to true to earn a grace gift (thus canceling out the gift) Feel free

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Christians are not perfectly sinless, they do sin on occasions. The issue is can Christians remain impenitent of their sins yet still be saved in those sins?

You do not even know all the sins you commit. so how can you be penitent of those sins?