Ok to be lesbian?

[Kawaii]

It also didn't mention pedophilia, bestiality, rape, masochism or sadism. Sexual perversions are vast, and I'm not even sure Paul would have been familiar with every different kind, but he makes it clear that they are all wrong. If you are doing a sum there is only one right answer, it would be nonsense to list every single wrong answer. Paul talks about lesbianism in the verse you reject, so we can't say that he doesn't consider it sexual immorality. Even though you reject that verse, you know that what he considers to be sexually immoral is clear, so when he refers to sexual immorality here, it is just that sort of thing he is referring to. The Bible doesn't mention masturbation, or porn either, but most Christians acknowledge that it is a sin because it is lustful, and clearly not what God would want. God is looking for people of a certain character, not people that are examining the law, looking for ways to try and cheat it. You can try and pick apart his words all day, but don't be surprised if at the end of the day he says, "I never knew you".

However, it did specify, specifically, against men doing it in the quote.

"neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality"

"nor men who practice homosexuality". Why say this, but not say "nor women" anywhere? Why go out of the way to specifically address homosexuality by men, and specify men? Why is "nor men who practice homosexuality" even included at all, when it falls into the other categories? Why specify specifically for men? This just makes me more convinced that being lesbian is not a sin.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

I didn't want to do this, but I will mention it after all. To be honest, I don't believe Paul was a false apostle, but I can't say for certain he's not either.

What is the word of God

This is the link from earlier. Read the whole thing, once or maybe twice. Paul made enough mistakes to create logical discrepancies and contradictions in the Bible. That said, and considering the fact that Paul is the only apostle I am aware had ever done so, I believe it is possible that he made a mistake in the quote as well.

I wouldn't go as far as to say Paul was false, but he made enough assumptions and mistakes to put himself in a position of accusation by people who believe he is. That said, the quote from romans you all mentioned is less credible with this. However, I believe that alone shouldn't be used to clear that debate, so I refrained from mentioning it. Unfortunately, you kept using the thing Paul said to prove your point. This became a necessity. I apologize.

What are you implying Kawaii?

Are you claiming that the Scriptures which Paul wrote are not inspired?

By you undermining the authority of Paul's apostleship, you are also undermining the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ.

After all, it was the Lord Jesus who chose Paul and called him to be an apostle: (Acts 9:3-6 and Rom. 1:1).


And what Paul received was by the Lord Jesus Christ (Gal. 1:12).

Therefore; what Paul wrote in Romans 1 is Just as authoritative as what Moses wrote in Leviticus 18:22.



2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.



2 Peter 1:20-21 KJV
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[Kawaii]

It is important that you mentioned that you thought about the possibility of Paul being wrong though. THIS is where your doubt comes from.

If you have any doubt regarding the author of a book of the Bible, it is not a large leap then to discredit something he says that you may not like.

homosexuality, in all its forms, is becoming extremely popular today. This is why there are many people who are trying to legitimize it and even trying to make Paul's words come into doubt. I have heard similar arguments for gay men.

Just because something may FEEL or SEEM right, does not mean that it is. Remember, Scripture says that if it were not for Christ returning that even the elect could be deceived. It is things like homosexuality and lesbianism that the church is getting confused about and it is very dangerous to allow room for thinking that parts of the Bible are in error.

May the truth of Christ settle on your heart.

I'm not doubting the Bible. I simply believe what Paul said was Paul's testimony and was what Pail said, and was misinterpreted.

 

[Radius]

Op if God told you Himself to stop being a lesbian would you?

 

[Kawaii]

What are you implying Kawaii?

Are you claiming that the Scriptures which Paul wrote are not inspired?

By you undermining the authority of Paul's apostleship, you are also undermining the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ.

After all, it was the Lord Jesus who chose Paul and called him to be an apostle: (Acts 9:3-6 and Rom. 1:1).


And what Paul received was by the Lord Jesus Christ (Gal. 1:12).

Therefore; what Paul wrote in Romans 1 is Just as authoritative as what Moses wrote in Leviticus 18:22.



2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.



2 Peter 1:20-21 KJV
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Pay no mind to the apostle Jesus chose, that sold Jesus for thirty pieces of silver...

Jesus knew that would happen, but they aren't exactly Jesus or God regardless.

And i'm not discrediting Paul. I am simply saying he is liable to mistakes. It would be different if he outright said "Being lesbian is a sin" as an authoritative statement. He didn't.

 

[Animus]

However, it did specify, specifically, against men doing it in the quote.

"neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality"

"nor men who practice homosexuality". Why say this, but not say "nor women" anywhere? Why go out of the way to specifically address homosexuality by men, and specify men? Why is "nor men who practice homosexuality" even included at all, when it falls into the other categories? Why specify specifically for men? This just makes me more convinced that being lesbian is not a sin.

Paul was writing a letter to a specific church, he chose to highlight specific perversions that were relevant to the recipients but also included the general sexually immorality because it includes everything. Lust for anyone that is not your spouse is a sin. Therefore every sexual act lesbians commit with each other is a sin. You can't get around this.

 

[Radius]

really the OP makes no sense whatsoever. If the Bible says a man cannot sleep with another man that means homosexuality. Homosexuality is one member having sex with another member of the same sex. man with man or woman with woman its the same homosexuality. Period.

I question somebody's intelligence if they don't understand this

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

There is a lot of misunderstanding about what verses in the Bible mean, yes?

So it's possible we are misunderstanding what Paul said also. I know he does not declare it as a sin. I know it is the only time it was ever mentioned. I know it is not worded in the same way as the rule against men doing it in the list of sexual immoralities made by GOD who would not fail to include lesbianism in the list if that was intended. I know Paul did not say "Being lesbian is a sin.".

Well here we go again eh? lol I don't know if I'll ever convince you, but I'll keep trying (im even postponing my workout so I dont get impatient this time... my fiance is sleeping atm but she has to go to work soon :/). Im going to recap on a couple of things we have agreed and disagreed on.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - says homosexuality is bad as well as sodomy.

Romans 1:21-27 - Paul condemming women having sex with women

Leviticus 18:22 & Levitics 20:13 - You have commented on this a lot. I will just say briefly I doubt God would think it's okay for men to be homosexuals, but not women. It's like saying God doesnt mind men to commit beastiality, but not women -_- but I'll get back to this one.

Genesis 2:24 - I dont think anyone brought this up. You are supposed to have sex after marriage, and become one flesh. From this understanding, nowhere in the Bible unless you can cite it (which I highly doubt but I havent read the Bible 100% so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) did homosexuals becomes 1 flesh.


Now Im going to just use some logic, and hopefully you will understand now. Do you think God would be sexist? Do you honestly think God would make homosexuals who have sex as men to be sent to hell, but women who are homosexuals go to heaven? Does that seem fair?

Or say for example, another point of logic. For an orgasim to occur between a male and a female without ANY knowledge of such thing, they would just have to, so to speak, complete the jig saw puzzle. But two women together do not become "one flesh" like a completed jig saw puzzle (im trying to keep this as un-descriptive as possible for a reason). Doesn't it seem obvious for such a thing? Also, can men on men or women on women create children? Wasn't God's first instruction to Adam and Eve to populate the earth? How can lesbians populate the earth let alone homosexuals in general.

Last piece of logic im going to throw out here. Can you find anywhere in the Bible where lesbianism is positive? Like any Bible quote that says it is okay? I've seen you discredit the definition of sodomy, discredit Bible quotes, but have you yet to quote a part in the Bible where lesbianism is Good? Did God ever say to commit lesbian acts?

 

[kennethcadwell]

The thing we must remember is that in Paul's writings he says when it is from God, and also tells when it is his recommendation or wish and not from God. So when he says something and does not mention that it is not his opinion, or recommendation. Then we can be assured it is from God.

 

[Kawaii]

really the OP makes no sense whatsoever. If the Bible says a man cannot sleep with another man that means homosexuality. Homosexuality is one member having sex with another member of the same sex. man with man or woman with woman its the same homosexuality. Period.

I question somebody's intelligence if they don't understand this

Actually, the only term for Homosexuality that works is the Latin "Homo" meaning man, and "sexual" meaning exactly what it says on the tin. The other version is an astrange fusion between the Greek prefix "Homo" meaning same, and the Latin suffix. In other words, a mesh of Greek and Latin combined.

 

[Kawaii]

The thing we must remember is that in Paul's writings he says when it is from God, and also tells when it is his recommendation or wish and not from God. So when he says something and does not mention that it is not his opinion, or recommendation. Then we can be assured it is from God.

Wrong.

That suggests that anything Paul ever said that he didn't specify as himself talking was GOD speaking. It works the other way around, and you can tell the difference. Paul was speaking as Paul relaying what he was seeing. That's that.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Actually, the only term for Homosexuality that works is the Latin "Homo" meaning man, and "sexual" meaning exactly what it says on the tin. The other version is an astrange fusion between the Greek prefix "Homo" meaning same, and the Latin suffix. In other words, a mesh of Greek and Latin combined.

You using the Latin word wrong. The origin of homo comes from Greek meaning the same. The word homo in Latin means man (as in human, not gender; mankind)

 

[Kawaii]

Leviticus 18:22 & Levitics 20:13 - You have commented on this a lot. I will just say briefly I doubt God would think it's okay for men to be homosexuals, but not women. It's like saying God doesnt mind men to commit beastiality, but not women -_- but I'll get back to this one.

Funny thing, that. When GOD mentioned bestiality in the list of sexual immoralities, GOD did specify for both sexes.

23 “‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

But did not do the same for what came immediately before it.

22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

Funny thing, that. When GOD mentioned bestiality in the list of sexual immoralities, GOD did specify for both sexes.

23 “‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

But did not do the same for what came immediately before it.

22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

-sigh- like I said, do you have any Bible verses where being a lesbian was a good thing? Or did you read any other of the logical statements I said...

 

[Kawaii]

Genesis 2:24 - I dont think anyone brought this up. You are supposed to have sex after marriage, and become one flesh. From this understanding, nowhere in the Bible unless you can cite it (which I highly doubt but I havent read the Bible 100% so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) did homosexuals becomes 1 flesh.

Note that sex is defined as penetrative.

 

[Kawaii]

Or did you read any other of the logical statements I said...

Working on it.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Note that sex is defined as penetrative.

Note that word immorality is not always penetrative. Have you heard of sensuality? That's a sin too.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

Working on it.

Alright I'll be waiting. A good debate is always healthy lol.

 

[Kawaii]

Now Im going to just use some logic, and hopefully you will understand now. Do you think God would be sexist? Do you honestly think God would make homosexuals who have sex as men to be sent to hell, but women who are homosexuals go to heaven? Does that seem fair?

The Bible is notorious for being sexist. A lot of this works in the favor of men and against women. I imagine, if anything similar were to occur, it would most certainly occur in a list of sexual sins of all things.

 

[Kawaii]

Or say for example, another point of logic. For an orgasim to occur between a male and a female without ANY knowledge of such thing, they would just have to, so to speak, complete the jig saw puzzle. But two women together do not become "one flesh" like a completed jig saw puzzle (im trying to keep this as un-descriptive as possible for a reason). Doesn't it seem obvious for such a thing? Also, can men on men or women on women create children? Wasn't God's first instruction to Adam and Eve to populate the earth? How can lesbians populate the earth let alone homosexuals in general.

but that by itself does not make it a sin.