Repentance Vs Eternal Security

[eternally-gratefull]

This is the last time im going to post in this thread if nobody actually takes the time to watch this.

If you REALLY want some information on this doctrine instead of just arguing back and forth and getting nowhere, just watch this:

[video=youtube;PVJV6zsEJvY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVJV6zsEJvY[/video]

It wont take more then 20 minutes. Im sure you have 20 minutes to spare instead of just debating back and forth with little progress =_=. Besides, I used to think "once saved always saved" was true until I watched that video.

well good. You listen to a man. I will listen to the word of God. Good luck trying to EARN your way to heaven. As for me. I have recieved God's Grace gift. I refuse to mock his gift by trying to earn it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If eternal security were true, it would render biblical repentance useless.

Actually quite the opposite.
Unless one truly repents they are not saved, if they are not saved, they do not have eternal life (security)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What has that have to do with anything? What you said makes no sense. Im posting a video of a pastor explaining with the Bible how once saved always saved is wrong and not biblical. What has that have to do with your Bible quote?

Maybe his bible quote trumps what some man who you seem to follow says and makes your video obsolete?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What gets MISSED in all of this is one thing,the warnings ALL go back thing and that is walking or falling away from the faith. Continued unrepentant sin DAMAGES and weakens our faith. If one loses their faith,then HOW in the world can that person STILL be declared righteous? No one can be declared righteous without faith. Jesus warnings all lead in the end to UNBELIEF.

Because.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

God promised eternal life based on his son's work. You expect God to Go back on his promise even if we fail??

 

[SarahM777]

Because.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

God promised eternal life based on his son's work. You expect God to Go back on his promise even if we fail??

UMM that is a misuse of that passage. EG God does NOT promise that He will save anyone without FAITH. No one will be saved WITHOUT faith. Show ANY passages that plainly say UNBELIEF will save you. What will save you if you were to fall into unbelief? That is what is at the heart of ALL of the warnings.

There is NOTHING in that passage that is even hinting at God being faithful to ones unbelief. It is about God being faithful to Himself.

 

[CRC]

Hopefully it s not something like ice cream or food that has been eaten. Or worse yet blood guilt incurred from the death of someone innocent. Then returning what was stolen of taken could be problematic. In that case the principle of "due compensation along with repentance would come to the fore.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

UMM that is a misuse of that passage. EG God does NOT promise that He will save anyone without FAITH. No one will be saved WITHOUT faith. Show ANY passages that plainly say UNBELIEF will save you. What will save you if you were to fall into unbelief? That is what is at the heart of ALL of the warnings.

There is NOTHING in that passage that is even hinting at God being faithful to ones unbelief. It is about God being faithful to Himself.

Show me where a person who had true faith. Had true experience. And had true knowledge of God will EVER stop having faith, Even if it is just a small amount (remember faith of a mustard seed can move mountains).

You will not be able to.

The ONLY people who would ever stop believing are those ho never had faith to begin with.

As you have been shown over and over. A dog returns to his own vomit.

 

[SarahM777]

Show me where a person who had true faith. Had true experience. And had true knowledge of God will EVER stop having faith, Even if it is just a small amount (remember faith of a mustard seed can move mountains).

You will not be able to.

The ONLY people who would ever stop believing are those ho never had faith to begin with.

As you have been shown over and over. A dog returns to his own vomit.

Judas was a BELIEVER at one point. If not then Jesus LIED to Judas. Judas was called a sheep early on,Judas was given the SAME Authority as the the rest of Apostles,to be an apostle one had to be BLAMELESS. Judas was told he would sit on a throne.

Scripture also says Judas BECAME a traitor,not that he was to BEGIN with.

The Early Disciple

The distortion to which some scholars yield, in desperate attempts to preserve cherished ideologies, is as amazing as it is disheartening. In trying to embalm the dogma of “once-saved, always-saved,” the disciples of Calvin have but two choices: they must contend that those described as lost were never saved, or allege that though the redeemed subject “fell,” the mishap did not involve the forfeiture of salvation. In the case of Judas, his destiny is clear. The only recourse is to deny he ever was saved.
Popular preacher, John F. MacArthur Jr., argues that “while the others [the eleven] were growing into apostles, Judas was quietly becoming a vile, calculating tool of Satan. Whatever his character seemed to be at the beginning, his faith was not real (John 13:10-11). He was unregenerate” (1989, 99; emphasis added).
An article by Baptist editor Robert L. Sumner appeared recently under the following caption: JUDAS AND JESUS. The Most Amazing Story Ever Told: How a Miracle-Working Apostle of Jesus Christ Fell Into Sin, Committed Suicide, and Wound Up in Hell — Doomed and Damned Forever! Sumner then wrote: “[W]e ought to make it very clear that Judas was never saved. He was never converted. He never put his own personal faith in the Savior for the forgiveness of sins” (2008, 1, 17; emphasis added). These assertions will not bear the weight of careful scrutiny.
(1) The identical phraseology is employed to describe the enrollment of Judas into Christ’s service as that used of the other eleven: “And he [Christ] called unto him histwelve disciples, and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of disease and all manner of sickness” (Matthew 10:1; emphasis added). Where is the evidence that eleven belonged to Christ, but one was Satan’s? All twelve were his (cf. Acts 1:17).
(2) Judas happily accepted the office. There is no evidence he was forced to be a pawn in the plan of redemption. What would have motivated a charlatan to accept a position that involved no material gain but only sacrifice and significant persecution? Jesus discouraged the insincere from following him (Luke 9:57-62).
(3) After more than three years of association, the disciples entertained no suspicion of Judas’ duplicity, but had confidence in him. He served as their treasurer; and as noted earlier, they apparently yielded to his influence. At the final supper, none suspected him of being the traitor; they each asked, “Is it I?” (Matthew 26:22).
(4) Jesus’ love for Judas was manifested to the very end, one indication of which was that he was given the premier seat at the last supper. The Lord obviously reclined next to Judas, in “his bosom” so to speak, just as John was situated with reference to Jesus (cf. John 13:23). For a study of this obvious seating configuration (see Edersheim 1947, 494).
(5) One of the most compelling arguments against the theory that Judas was never saved is grounded in an incident in Matthew 12. As noted in Matthew 10:1, 8, Judas possessed the same miraculous powers as the other eleven (as Sumner conceded [see above]). Jesus healed a man who was possessed by a demon (Matthew 12:22ff). In response, the Pharisees charged that he cast out demons by the power of Beelzebub. With brilliant logic, Christ pointed out that “every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation.” If Satan were casting out Satan, he would be divided against himself!
No rebuttal was offered because none was adequate to the task! If the Lord had enlisted a child of Satan as an apostle, would he have empowered the man with the ability to cast out demons? Would not such have been wholly inconsistent with his argument against the Pharisees?
(6) John 17 contains the prayer uttered by the Lord en route to Gethsemane. The prayer falls into three sections: (a) a petition for himself (vv. 1-8), (b) prayer for his disciples (vv. 9-19), © prayer for the future church (vv. 20-26). We focus momentarily on the petition for his immediate disciples.
While the prayer obviously was on behalf of the eleven remaining apostles, reference is made nonetheless to the original twelve. It therefore is not correct to contend that the language of the Lord has no relevance to Judas; it certainly did.
Note these crucial points, beginning with verse six: (a) Christ “manifested” (aorist tense, relating to a past situation, i.e., his ministry period) himself unto the men God gave him “out of the world” (v. 6). They belonged to God and were given to the Son. That included Judas. (b) Jesus conveyed the words of God unto these men and they “received them” (v. 8a). © They “believed” the Son was sent from the Father (v. 8b).
Of the twelve, the Lord subsequently said: “While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction” (v. 12, ESV). Focus on the term “except” in the last phrase. It translates the Greek ei me. Baptist scholar A. T. Robertson stated that “this phrase marks an exception,” and he cites this passage (1919, 1188). In his commentary, Word Pictures in the New Testament, he says Judas was a “sad and terrible exception” (1932, 278). This constitutes positive proof that “the men” of verses six through eight embraced the full complement of the twelve. Jesus “lost” Judas. The traitor’s lostness resulted from his wrong choices, and he “fell away” (Acts 1:17, 25).

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1480-judas-iscariot-from-apostle-to-apostate

Judas is the conundrum to OSAS.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Judas was a BELIEVER at one point. If not then Jesus LIED to Judas. Judas was called a sheep early on,Judas was given the SAME Authority as the the rest of Apostles,to be an apostle one had to be BLAMELESS. Judas was told he would sit on a throne.

Scripture also says Judas BECAME a traitor,not that he was to BEGIN with.

The Early Disciple

The distortion to which some scholars yield, in desperate attempts to preserve cherished ideologies, is as amazing as it is disheartening. In trying to embalm the dogma of “once-saved, always-saved,” the disciples of Calvin have but two choices: they must contend that those described as lost were never saved, or allege that though the redeemed subject “fell,” the mishap did not involve the forfeiture of salvation. In the case of Judas, his destiny is clear. The only recourse is to deny he ever was saved.
Popular preacher, John F. MacArthur Jr., argues that “while the others [the eleven] were growing into apostles, Judas was quietly becoming a vile, calculating tool of Satan. Whatever his character seemed to be at the beginning, his faith was not real (John 13:10-11). He was unregenerate” (1989, 99; emphasis added).
An article by Baptist editor Robert L. Sumner appeared recently under the following caption: JUDAS AND JESUS. The Most Amazing Story Ever Told: How a Miracle-Working Apostle of Jesus Christ Fell Into Sin, Committed Suicide, and Wound Up in Hell — Doomed and Damned Forever! Sumner then wrote: “[W]e ought to make it very clear that Judas was never saved. He was never converted. He never put his own personal faith in the Savior for the forgiveness of sins” (2008, 1, 17; emphasis added). These assertions will not bear the weight of careful scrutiny.
(1) The identical phraseology is employed to describe the enrollment of Judas into Christ’s service as that used of the other eleven: “And he [Christ] called unto him histwelve disciples, and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of disease and all manner of sickness” (Matthew 10:1; emphasis added). Where is the evidence that eleven belonged to Christ, but one was Satan’s? All twelve were his (cf. Acts 1:17).
(2) Judas happily accepted the office. There is no evidence he was forced to be a pawn in the plan of redemption. What would have motivated a charlatan to accept a position that involved no material gain but only sacrifice and significant persecution? Jesus discouraged the insincere from following him (Luke 9:57-62).
(3) After more than three years of association, the disciples entertained no suspicion of Judas’ duplicity, but had confidence in him. He served as their treasurer; and as noted earlier, they apparently yielded to his influence. At the final supper, none suspected him of being the traitor; they each asked, “Is it I?” (Matthew 26:22).
(4) Jesus’ love for Judas was manifested to the very end, one indication of which was that he was given the premier seat at the last supper. The Lord obviously reclined next to Judas, in “his bosom” so to speak, just as John was situated with reference to Jesus (cf. John 13:23). For a study of this obvious seating configuration (see Edersheim 1947, 494).
(5) One of the most compelling arguments against the theory that Judas was never saved is grounded in an incident in Matthew 12. As noted in Matthew 10:1, 8, Judas possessed the same miraculous powers as the other eleven (as Sumner conceded [see above]). Jesus healed a man who was possessed by a demon (Matthew 12:22ff). In response, the Pharisees charged that he cast out demons by the power of Beelzebub. With brilliant logic, Christ pointed out that “every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation.” If Satan were casting out Satan, he would be divided against himself!
No rebuttal was offered because none was adequate to the task! If the Lord had enlisted a child of Satan as an apostle, would he have empowered the man with the ability to cast out demons? Would not such have been wholly inconsistent with his argument against the Pharisees?
(6) John 17 contains the prayer uttered by the Lord en route to Gethsemane. The prayer falls into three sections: (a) a petition for himself (vv. 1-8), (b) prayer for his disciples (vv. 9-19), © prayer for the future church (vv. 20-26). We focus momentarily on the petition for his immediate disciples.
While the prayer obviously was on behalf of the eleven remaining apostles, reference is made nonetheless to the original twelve. It therefore is not correct to contend that the language of the Lord has no relevance to Judas; it certainly did.
Note these crucial points, beginning with verse six: (a) Christ “manifested” (aorist tense, relating to a past situation, i.e., his ministry period) himself unto the men God gave him “out of the world” (v. 6). They belonged to God and were given to the Son. That included Judas. (b) Jesus conveyed the words of God unto these men and they “received them” (v. 8a). © They “believed” the Son was sent from the Father (v. 8b).
Of the twelve, the Lord subsequently said: “While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction” (v. 12, ESV). Focus on the term “except” in the last phrase. It translates the Greek ei me. Baptist scholar A. T. Robertson stated that “this phrase marks an exception,” and he cites this passage (1919, 1188). In his commentary, Word Pictures in the New Testament, he says Judas was a “sad and terrible exception” (1932, 278). This constitutes positive proof that “the men” of verses six through eight embraced the full complement of the twelve. Jesus “lost” Judas. The traitor’s lostness resulted from his wrong choices, and he “fell away” (Acts 1:17, 25).

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1480-judas-iscariot-from-apostle-to-apostate

Judas is the conundrum to OSAS.

Judas never believed. He was always in sin. have you even read the bible about him? he was steeling from them from the begining, he was a thief.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Judas was a BELIEVER at one point. If not then Jesus LIED to Judas. Judas was called a sheep early on,Judas was given the SAME Authority as the the rest of Apostles,to be an apostle one had to be BLAMELESS. Judas was told he would sit on a throne.

Scripture also says Judas BECAME a traitor,not that he was to BEGIN with.

The Early Disciple

The distortion to which some scholars yield, in desperate attempts to preserve cherished ideologies, is as amazing as it is disheartening. In trying to embalm the dogma of “once-saved, always-saved,” the disciples of Calvin have but two choices: they must contend that those described as lost were never saved, or allege that though the redeemed subject “fell,” the mishap did not involve the forfeiture of salvation. In the case of Judas, his destiny is clear. The only recourse is to deny he ever was saved.
Popular preacher, John F. MacArthur Jr., argues that “while the others [the eleven] were growing into apostles, Judas was quietly becoming a vile, calculating tool of Satan. Whatever his character seemed to be at the beginning, his faith was not real (John 13:10-11). He was unregenerate” (1989, 99; emphasis added).
An article by Baptist editor Robert L. Sumner appeared recently under the following caption: JUDAS AND JESUS. The Most Amazing Story Ever Told: How a Miracle-Working Apostle of Jesus Christ Fell Into Sin, Committed Suicide, and Wound Up in Hell — Doomed and Damned Forever! Sumner then wrote: “[W]e ought to make it very clear that Judas was never saved. He was never converted. He never put his own personal faith in the Savior for the forgiveness of sins” (2008, 1, 17; emphasis added). These assertions will not bear the weight of careful scrutiny.
(1) The identical phraseology is employed to describe the enrollment of Judas into Christ’s service as that used of the other eleven: “And he [Christ] called unto him histwelve disciples, and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of disease and all manner of sickness” (Matthew 10:1; emphasis added). Where is the evidence that eleven belonged to Christ, but one was Satan’s? All twelve were his (cf. Acts 1:17).
(2) Judas happily accepted the office. There is no evidence he was forced to be a pawn in the plan of redemption. What would have motivated a charlatan to accept a position that involved no material gain but only sacrifice and significant persecution? Jesus discouraged the insincere from following him (Luke 9:57-62).
(3) After more than three years of association, the disciples entertained no suspicion of Judas’ duplicity, but had confidence in him. He served as their treasurer; and as noted earlier, they apparently yielded to his influence. At the final supper, none suspected him of being the traitor; they each asked, “Is it I?” (Matthew 26:22).
(4) Jesus’ love for Judas was manifested to the very end, one indication of which was that he was given the premier seat at the last supper. The Lord obviously reclined next to Judas, in “his bosom” so to speak, just as John was situated with reference to Jesus (cf. John 13:23). For a study of this obvious seating configuration (see Edersheim 1947, 494).
(5) One of the most compelling arguments against the theory that Judas was never saved is grounded in an incident in Matthew 12. As noted in Matthew 10:1, 8, Judas possessed the same miraculous powers as the other eleven (as Sumner conceded [see above]). Jesus healed a man who was possessed by a demon (Matthew 12:22ff). In response, the Pharisees charged that he cast out demons by the power of Beelzebub. With brilliant logic, Christ pointed out that “every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation.” If Satan were casting out Satan, he would be divided against himself!
No rebuttal was offered because none was adequate to the task! If the Lord had enlisted a child of Satan as an apostle, would he have empowered the man with the ability to cast out demons? Would not such have been wholly inconsistent with his argument against the Pharisees?
(6) John 17 contains the prayer uttered by the Lord en route to Gethsemane. The prayer falls into three sections: (a) a petition for himself (vv. 1-8), (b) prayer for his disciples (vv. 9-19), © prayer for the future church (vv. 20-26). We focus momentarily on the petition for his immediate disciples.
While the prayer obviously was on behalf of the eleven remaining apostles, reference is made nonetheless to the original twelve. It therefore is not correct to contend that the language of the Lord has no relevance to Judas; it certainly did.
Note these crucial points, beginning with verse six: (a) Christ “manifested” (aorist tense, relating to a past situation, i.e., his ministry period) himself unto the men God gave him “out of the world” (v. 6). They belonged to God and were given to the Son. That included Judas. (b) Jesus conveyed the words of God unto these men and they “received them” (v. 8a). © They “believed” the Son was sent from the Father (v. 8b).
Of the twelve, the Lord subsequently said: “While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction” (v. 12, ESV). Focus on the term “except” in the last phrase. It translates the Greek ei me. Baptist scholar A. T. Robertson stated that “this phrase marks an exception,” and he cites this passage (1919, 1188). In his commentary, Word Pictures in the New Testament, he says Judas was a “sad and terrible exception” (1932, 278). This constitutes positive proof that “the men” of verses six through eight embraced the full complement of the twelve. Jesus “lost” Judas. The traitor’s lostness resulted from his wrong choices, and he “fell away” (Acts 1:17, 25).

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1480-judas-iscariot-from-apostle-to-apostate

Judas is the conundrum to OSAS.

There is one important difference - Judas was not born again - he was not filled with holy Spirit. He was not part of the twelve on the day of Pentecost when the Spirit was first given. . . .so he was not "sealed with that holy Spirit of promise which is our inheritance UNTIL THE DAY OF REDEMPTION" . . . . . we are!

 

[faroukfarouk]

There is one important difference - Judas was not born again - he was not filled with holy Spirit. He was not part of the twelve on the day of Pentecost when the Spirit was first given. . . .so he was not "sealed with that holy Spirit of promise which is our inheritance UNTIL THE DAY OF REDEMPTION" . . . . . we are!

Ms. peacefulbeliever: Indeed, Judas seems to have been 'the son of perdition' (John 17.12).

Blessings.

 

[SarahM777]

Judas never believed. He was always in sin. have you even read the bible about him? he was steeling from them from the begining, he was a thief.

So then you are implying by this that Jesus LIED to Judas. When talking to the twelve as a group when Jesus DID not make a distinction between the one and the eleven,and told ALL TWELVE the same that they were His sheep etc etc,He lied to Judas by implying something that WAS NOT TRUE. He was telling Judas he was saved when that was NOT TRUE. It is true that Jesus did make that distinction LATER but NOT early on.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So then you are implying by this that Jesus LIED to Judas. When talking to the twelve as a group when Jesus DID not make a distinction between the one and the eleven,and told ALL TWELVE the same that they were His sheep etc etc,He lied to Judas by implying something that WAS NOT TRUE. He was telling Judas he was saved when that was NOT TRUE. It is true that Jesus did make that distinction LATER but NOT early on.

Who is saying he lied?

How many people are walking with you and your church, are considered part of your church, But never have found God?

Judas represents this.. He was a thief from the begining. He never repented. And never trusted in Christ. If he did, he never would have turned him in for a few coins.

His whole outlook was how much money can I steel from these Guys. Not, How can Christ save me.

 

[faroukfarouk]

So then you are implying by this that Jesus LIED to Judas. When talking to the twelve as a group when Jesus DID not make a distinction between the one and the eleven,and told ALL TWELVE the same that they were His sheep etc etc,He lied to Judas by implying something that WAS NOT TRUE. He was telling Judas he was saved when that was NOT TRUE. It is true that Jesus did make that distinction LATER but NOT early on.

The parable of the sower speaks of those who for a while believe, but it is not rooted in permanent, genuine faith. Like today, also, there are professing Christians who outwardly seem to go along with what true believers do and say, but there has never been a genuine change of heart wrought by the Spirit of God.

 

[notuptome]

Many equate the parable of the sower exclusively to salvation. While there is an application to that there is also an application to sanctification. The first sowing of the seed falls on hard ground and does not germinate and the birds carry it away. The second sowing falls on ground and germinates but due to lack of water and depth of root fails to progress to maturity. The third sowing also germinates and begins to grow but is overcome. These do not mature to produce fruit. Only the last sowing matures and produces fruit. Three of the sowings represent new birth with only one producing fruit. I suggest that many in the church today are represented in the second and third sowing with only a small percentage in the fourth sowing. The majority of the world is in the first sowing.

There has been debate over Judas for many many years by men who are better than I who cannot come to a conclusion that is above reproof. Only the Lord knows if Judas was saved or lost. I suspect the latter and see him in the first sowing of the seed but God is merciful so I leave it in Gods hands.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SarahM777]

The parable of the sower speaks of those who for a while believe, but it is not rooted in permanent, genuine faith. Like today, also, there are professing Christians who outwardly seem to go along with what true believers do and say, but there has never been a genuine change of heart wrought by the Spirit of God.

UMM you're reading into it that it's NOT genuine faith.

 

[The_highwayman]

There is a big difference between confessing and repentance.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Ms. peacefulbeliever: Indeed, Judas seems to have been 'the son of perdition' (John 17.12).

Blessings.

I don't believe that I said he wasn't . . . and who is the "son of perdition" in 2 Thess. 2:3? Or could the 'son of perdition' be anyone who succombs to the 'wiles of the devil' and acts upon it? I am not sure.

John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him . . .

Also - the following shows an act of contrition and repentance on Judas' part:

Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Matt. 27:3

 

[faroukfarouk]

I don't believe that I said he wasn't . . . and who is the "son of perdition" in 2 Thess. 2:3? Or could the 'son of perdition' be anyone who succombs to the 'wiles of the devil' and acts upon it? I am not sure.

John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him . . .

Also - the following shows an act of contrition and repentance on Judas' part:

Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Matt. 27:3

I was just commenting, anyway.

I do wonder how deap-seated his repentance was. It culminated in suicide; not an act of faith. Again, the parable of the sower can be a good guide to the existence of superficial religious experience. In Acts 1.25 it says that Judas 'went to his own place', which sounds ominous.

Blessings.

 

[SeaBass]

Salvation for the Christian is CONDITIONAL upon one thing - faith.

For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves: it (salvation) is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS lest any man boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are saved through faith in Jesus Christ and that salvation is a gift of God. Our good works come from God working within us to will and to do of his good pleasure and he will continue to complete that work until Christ's return. Until then we fight in a battle - our flesh wars against the Spirit.

A saving faith includes repentance, not void of repentaance.

Jn 3:16 Jesus tied believing to perishing
Lk 13:3,5 Jesus tied repentance to perishing


Jn 3:5------believeth>>>>>>>>>>>not persih/sasved
Lk 13:3----repent>>>>>>>>>>>>>not perish/saved

Since there is just one way to be sved, and the bible does not contradict itslef,the a saving belief includes repentance.

All the belief only in the world will never save an impenitent person.

James said the devils believe and tremble, but their belief only does not include repentance.


Beleif/faith s a wrok, Jn 6:27-29. So in Eph 2:8,9 when Paul sid "not of works" he not excluding the work of belief/faith but was excluding works of merit.

So from Eph 2:8 we see the Epeshians were sved through faith...faith saves.


Eph 2:8-----------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
LK 13:3-----------repentance>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves/not perish
Rom 10:9,10-----confession>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
1 Pet 3:21--------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves


Again, only one way to be saved - no alternatives and the bible does not contradict itself, so a saving faith includes repentance, confession and baptism....unless anyone is willing to argue an impenitent, denier of Christ who still in his unremitted/unforgiven sins can be saved?