What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

[eternally-gratefull]

Can't be done huh?

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Looks like your opinion is diametrically opposed to the scriptures. I gotta go with Luke on this one.

1. So they were perfect?
2. Why do you think every time you see the word (command) it always means the 10 commands or the do not do commands??

The commands of God go SO MUCH FURTHER than that.

I guarantee neither of those people went around continually thinking "thou shalt not, Thou shalt not"

But hey, if you think that makes you holy and righteous. Feel free.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And both always refereed to the scriptures that were in existence during their ministry. They got their point across by saying "as it is written." I understand what you are saying, but if a person cannot be subject to the law, what does that say about that person according to Paul? I'm not talking about performance, I'm talking about understanding.

So your telling me someone can come to Christ and not understand the law and what it means the moment they are saved?

wow..

thats funny, In romans paul says even the carnal world understands what is right and wrong. So that their is no excuse.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I never said that we are capable of keeping the law, no more than we are capable of neglecting the orders of the CEO of a company that we work for. If we want to continue working for the company we are subject to the CEO's instructions.

just-me, Before I posted I went back 3 or 4 pages and read the posts. They are sort of hard to follow, lol but it seems that you are saying that we are still under the law and must follow every commandment? Are you including the Levitical law?

Am I understanding correctly?

 

[just-me]

A carnal mind cannot understand how. That's the whole point. If I asked another about spiritual matters in the word of God, and just could not comprehend it, that would confirm to all that I have a canal mind. I would keep asking How? How? How?

 

[john832]

QUOTE=john832;1450962]Can't be done huh?

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Looks like your opinion is diametrically opposed to the scriptures. I gotta go with Luke on this one.[/QUOTE]

1. So they were perfect?
2. Why do you think every time you see the word (command) it always means the 10 commands or the do not do commands??

The commands of God go SO MUCH FURTHER than that.

I guarantee neither of those people went around continually thinking "thou shalt not, Thou shalt not"

But hey, if you think that makes you holy and righteous. Feel free.

Don't believe the scripture? Discount it because it does not agree with your ideas? Sorry, but I have had to change many of my ideas because they did not agree with what the scripture plainly says.

 

[Grandpa]

And both always refereed to the scriptures that were in existence during their ministry. They got their point across by saying "as it is written." I understand what you are saying, but if a person cannot be subject to the law, what does that say about that person according to Paul? I'm not talking about performance, I'm talking about understanding. The Bible says that there is no law against the fruit of the Spirit, and I agreed. By agreeing with that doesn't make them my words, they are God's words. The spiritual mind can tell a person how. That comes from within, not from another.

I know that Gods word said there is no law against the fruit of the Spirit.

I asked you what laws are not kept by the fruit of the Spirit?

Let's say I am relying 100% on the fruit of the Spirit to get me into Heaven. Will I get in, according to the Law? Will I be Righteous according to God?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

A carnal mind cannot understand how. That's the whole point. If I asked another about spiritual matters in the word of God, and just could not comprehend it, that would confirm to all that I have a canal mind. I would keep asking How? How? How?

Nope - below the scripture tells us what is the carnal mind: (from post #172)

Rom. 8:3-6 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, [HOW?] who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

To be carnally minded - are those that are after the flesh and do mind the things of the flesh and that is why they are not subject to the law of God - in other words they are not subject to the things of the Spirit because the Spirit of God doesn't dwell in them
To be spiritually minded - those that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit

 

[chubbena]

Can't be done huh?

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Looks like your opinion is diametrically opposed to the scriptures. I gotta go with Luke on this one.

And psalm 119: Blessed are those whose ways are blameless, who walk according to the law of the Lord. Blessed are those who keep his statutes and seek him with all their heart—they do no wrong but follow his ways. You have laid down precepts that are to be fully obeyed...
The impotence of man does not negate the omnipotence of Yahweh, His word and His promises.

Did David observe the law? Yes he did.
Did he fail to observe the law? Yes he did.
What did he say about the law?

One can learn the HOW from David who through the Holy Spirit wrote Psalm 119.

 

[Grandpa]

QUOTE=john832;1450962]Can't be done huh?

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Looks like your opinion is diametrically opposed to the scriptures. I gotta go with Luke on this one.

Romans 3:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.




Don't believe the scripture? Discount it because it does not agree with your ideas? Sorry, but I have had to change many of my ideas because they did not agree with what the scripture plainly says.[/QUOTE]

 

[john832]

And psalm 119: Blessed are those whose ways are blameless, who walk according to the law of the Lord. Blessed are those who keep his statutes and seek him with all their heart—they do no wrong but follow his ways. You have laid down precepts that are to be fully obeyed...
The impotence of man does not negate the omnipotence of Yahweh, His word and His promises.

Did David observe the law? Yes he did.
Did he fail to observe the law? Yes he did.
What did he say about the law?

One can learn the HOW from David who through the Holy Spirit wrote Psalm 119.

Even after all the mistakes David made, what did God say about him?

Act 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

Seems those who rail against the Law and say it can't be kept and that it is not righteousness, never get around to understanding this...

Psa 130:3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?
Psa 130:4 But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.

Of a truth, no man can keep the Law perfectly, but then there is grace when we stumble...

Lam 3:22 It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
Lam 3:23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

 

[just-me]

just-me, Before I posted I went back 3 or 4 pages and read the posts. They are sort of hard to follow, lol but it seems that you are saying that we are still under the law and must follow every commandment? Are you including the Levitical law?

Am I understanding correctly?

The key is striving understanding the spiritual concepts of all the Bible including the law, not to just reject it as past, or nothing but condemnation. Sorry you misunderstood. I think that I have been misunderstood because of the presumption that I'm doing that just because I mentioned that a carnal mind cannot be in subjection to the law.

Romans 8:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Subject 5293. hupotasso hoop-ot-as'-so from 5259 and 5021; to subordinate; reflexively, to obey:--be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.

read post #142 and you will understand hopefully. The canal mind cannot comprehend the spiritual aspects of the law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A carnal mind cannot understand how. That's the whole point. If I asked another about spiritual matters in the word of God, and just could not comprehend it, that would confirm to all that I have a canal mind. I would keep asking How? How? How?

then tell us

How How How.

You have yet to do this.

You keep saying what those people I grew up with saying.

God said do not do something, so you better not do it.

BUT HOW HOW HOW??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Don't believe the scripture? Discount it because it does not agree with your ideas? Sorry, but I have had to change many of my ideas because they did not agree with what the scripture plainly says.

lol. Believe you me, That scripture does not say what you think it does.

Interpret it how you wish. I will interpret it for what it actually says.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I know that Gods word said there is no law against the fruit of the Spirit.

I asked you what laws are not kept by the fruit of the Spirit?

Let's say I am relying 100% on the fruit of the Spirit to get me into Heaven. Will I get in, according to the Law? Will I be Righteous according to God?

to take it even further.

If I am already headed to heaven. And I rely 100 % on the fruit of the spirit. Will I have to worry about breaking the law?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Even after all the mistakes David made, what did God say about him?

Act 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

Um, You need to go back and read scripture. God said this about David LONG before he ever committed those sins.

He said it before he was even annointed. While he was still a kid shepherding his fathers flocks.

Seems those who rail against the Law and say it can't be kept and that it is not righteousness, never get around to understanding this...

Psa 130:3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?
Psa 130:4 But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.

Of a truth, no man can keep the Law perfectly, but then there is grace when we stumble...

Lam 3:22 It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
Lam 3:23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

lol. So tell us.

How does "thou shalt not covet" tell us how not to covet"

Are you going to answer. or be like the rest and keep going in circles?

 

[just-me]

I know that Gods word said there is no law against the fruit of the Spirit.

I asked you what laws are not kept by the fruit of the Spirit?

Let's say I am relying 100% on the fruit of the Spirit to get me into Heaven. Will I get in, according to the Law? Will I be Righteous according to God?

So do you agree that the Spirit is understood through the word of God? What do you compare the Spirit that is leading you with?

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

John 16:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 1:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

I compare spiritual with spiritual by the word of God, maybe some believe that is not necessary.

 

[john832]

Can't be done huh?

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Looks like your opinion is diametrically opposed to the scriptures. I gotta go with Luke on this one.

1. So they were perfect?

Doesn't say that does it? It says they walked in all the Commandments and ordinances blameless.

2. Why do you think every time you see the word (command) it always means the 10 commands or the do not do commands??

Hmmm, and just what does "ALL THE COMMANDMENTS" mean? All BUT the Ten Commandments?

The commands of God go SO MUCH FURTHER than that.

Yep, so why would you think they should not be obeyed?

I guarantee neither of those people went around continually thinking "thou shalt not, Thou shalt not"

No, they thought just like David did...

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Psa 119:1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.

Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

Psa 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
Psa 119:45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
Psa 119:46 I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.
Psa 119:47 And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.
Psa 119:48 My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.

Psa 119:92 Unless thy law had been my delights, I should then have perished in mine affliction.
Psa 119:93 I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.
Psa 119:94 I am thine, save me; for I have sought thy precepts.

Psa 119:97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
Psa 119:98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me.
Psa 119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.
Psa 119:100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.
Psa 119:101 I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word.
Psa 119:102 I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me.
Psa 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Psa 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

David will be king over all Israel when Christ returns. He must have been doing something right.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The key is striving understanding the spiritual concepts of all the Bible including the law, not to just reject it as past, or nothing but condemnation. Sorry you misunderstood. I think that I have been misunderstood because of the presumption that I'm doing that just because I mentioned that a carnal mind cannot be in subjection to the law.

Romans 8:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Subject 5293. hupotasso hoop-ot-as'-so from 5259 and 5021; to subordinate; reflexively, to obey:--be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.

read post #142 and you will understand hopefully. The canal mind cannot comprehend the spiritual aspects of the law.

if they could not. then they could never repent. and no one could be saved.

and Paul lied in romans 1.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; [SUP]29 [/SUP]being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[SUP][c][/SUP] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, [SUP]30 [/SUP]backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [SUP]31 [/SUP]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[SUP][d][/SUP] unmerciful;

[SUP]32 [/SUP]who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.



How can they KNOW these things, if as you say, they can not know them??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Doesn't say that does it? It says they walked in all the Commandments and ordinances blameless.



Hmmm, and just what does "ALL THE COMMANDMENTS" mean? All BUT the Ten Commandments?



Yep, so why would you think they should not be obeyed?

I

No, they thought just like David did...

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Psa 119:1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.

Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

Psa 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
Psa 119:45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
Psa 119:46 I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.
Psa 119:47 And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.
Psa 119:48 My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.

Psa 119:92 Unless thy law had been my delights, I should then have perished in mine affliction.
Psa 119:93 I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.
Psa 119:94 I am thine, save me; for I have sought thy precepts.

Psa 119:97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
Psa 119:98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me.
Psa 119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.
Psa 119:100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.
Psa 119:101 I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word.
Psa 119:102 I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me.
Psa 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Psa 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

David will be king over all Israel when Christ returns. He must have been doing something right.


But hey, if you think that makes you holy and righteous. Feel free. [/B][/COLOR]

Your the one who thinks your holy and righteous. Not me.

I know (as David did) I am not holy and righteous.

Again, you refuse to answer.

how does the ten commands tell them how to obey them?? and how to be righteous..

 

[john832]

Your the one who thinks your holy and righteous. Not me.

And please show me where I said that. What I said was that we should obey God. I have never said that I am holy and righteous.

I know (as David did) I am not holy and righteous.

Again, you refuse to answer.

Strange, i have given an answer to every question you have asked. Problem is it was not the answer you wanted.

how does the ten commands tell them how to obey them?? and how to be righteous..

You have a problem understanding this? When someone tells you not to kill, you can't understand?