What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Yes I said the HS baptism never saved anyone, it was not a mistake, it was done by Christ only, it was only done twice, once to the Jew (Pentecost) and once to the Gentile (no respecter of person house of Cornelius) fulfilling the prophecy of Joel, and as you can see, the house of Cornelius was water baptized in Acts 10:47-48,

Acts 10:47-48 (NKJV)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" [SUP]48 [/SUP] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

it was the water baptism that saved them washing away their sins:

Acts 22:16 (KJV)
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

All 8 conversions were water baptized, Eph 4:4-5 says there is one saving baptism, when did the Eunuch rejoice? at the time he believed (Acts 8:37) or after he was water baptized (Acts 8:39)

Acts 8:37-39 (NKJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." [SUP]38 [/SUP] So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. [SUP]39[/SUP]Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.
From my view, that was the new custom of that time and Peter realized they Cornelius's house received the Holy Spirit before water Baptism, after he thought about that, he realized they did not have to be water Baptized and he grew wiser and said this about water Baptism
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Without the resurrection we do not have salvation, the gift from Father to be lked by Father through the power of the Holy Ghost

And John said he must decrease (water Baptism) and Christ must increase (Holy Ghost) Baptism
Yes there is only one Baptism, left and so it is either Spirit or water. Water does not do the saving it shows a good conscience that we are by The death, burial, resurrection of Jesus Christ to send us new life in the Spirit of Father to lead us into all truth that sets us free.

If we do n ot have the Spirit we are none of his

Anyway, believe how you want, yet I see you got it mixed up. Are you a Church of Christ member?
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
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From my view, that was the new custom of that time and Peter realized they Cornelius's house received the Holy Spirit before water Baptism, after he thought about that, he realized they did not have to be water Baptized and he grew wiser and said this about water Baptism
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Without the resurrection we do not have salvation, the gift from Father to be lked by Father through the power of the Holy Ghost

And John said he must decrease (water Baptism) and Christ must increase (Holy Ghost) Baptism
Yes there is only one Baptism, left and so it is either Spirit or water. Water does not do the saving it shows a good conscience that we are by The death, burial, resurrection of Jesus Christ to send us new life in the Spirit of Father to lead us into all truth that sets us free.

If we do n ot have the Spirit we are none of his

Anyway, believe how you want, yet I see you got it mixed up. Are you a Church of Christ member?
Your taking part of what Peter said, and taking it out of context, lets look at it closer :

1 Peter 3:20-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. [SUP]21 [/SUP] There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Peter said "There is also an antitype" that means where in the days of Noah, like the water washed away the sins of the world, the antitype being baptism, now washes away our personal sins even expressing for clarification this is not a cleansing of the flesh, but the work of the Holy Spirit, spiritually putting us in contact with the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ, and not a washing or removal of the filth of the flesh, it is a washing away our sins making a good conscience toward God. (reconciliation to God).

 Acts 22:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
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Your taking part of what Peter said, and taking it out of context, lets look at it closer :

1 Peter 3:20-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. [SUP]21 [/SUP] There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Peter said "There is also an antitype" that means where in the days of Noah, like the water washed away the sins of the world, the antitype being baptism, now washes away our personal sins even expressing for clarification this is not a cleansing of the flesh, but the work of the Holy Spirit, spiritually putting us in contact with the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ, and not a washing or removal of the filth of the flesh, it is a washing away our sins making a good conscience toward God. (reconciliation to God).

 Acts 22:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'
understood and I thank you, agreed
Now what if one receives the Spirit of God as where the wind blows no one knows and is saved by Faith in the finished work of God and does not get water Baptized are they saved?

In other words if Cornelius Family refused the water Baptism that Peter said who could refuse, if they did would they have still been saved by God?
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
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understood and I thank you, agreed
Now what if one receives the Spirit of God as where the wind blows no one knows and is saved by Faith in the finished work of God and does not get water Baptized are they saved?

In other words if Cornelius Family refused the water Baptism that Peter said who could refuse, if they did would they have still been saved by God?
Short answers are "no" and "no", but it would not be right not to explain,

We have two examples (and two only) of baptism of the HS, once the Apostles (Jews) and once the house of Cornelius (Gentile), from Peters mouth at Pentecost he said this was to fulfill the prophecy of Joel Acts 2:16-21, and from Peters mouth to the house of Cornelius that God is not a respecter of person (Acts 10:34), as well this now fulfills the prophecy of Joel (both Jew and Gentile)...

However, every single conversion (all 8) in the bible (including the house of Cornelius) were water baptized, and all but the apostles and Cornelius have no recording of ever being baptized by the HS as were they, but all, including them were water baptized.

Peter as we just seen in 1 Peter 3:20-21 says water baptism does now also save us, and Eph 4:5 says there is only one saving baptism :

Ephesians 4:5 (NKJV)
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

Therefore it is impossible to not conclude that one saving baptism is water baptism that washes away the sins of man making him righteous in the sight of God.

Acts 22:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
Wow we just disagree for I am baptized by Father through Son, a Gift from Father to me not a work from me
Remember John said we only baptized with water and Christ with the Holy Spirit and with fire
That he (John) water baptism must decrease and Christ's must increase

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Water Baptism took place after the reception of God's Spirit, the very same Spirit that led Christ leads us

Do you deny this?

John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

One Faith, one Lord and one captism and you deny the Holy Ghost Baptism? You agree that there is only one and you picked water, flesh service to want to serve God, when no flesh can
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
Short answers are "no" and "no", but it would not be right not to explain,

We have two examples (and two only) of baptism of the HS, once the Apostles (Jews) and once the house of Cornelius (Gentile), from Peters mouth at Pentecost he said this was to fulfill the prophecy of Joel Acts 2:16-21, and from Peters mouth to the house of Cornelius that God is not a respecter of person (Acts 10:34), as well this now fulfills the prophecy of Joel (both Jew and Gentile)...

However, every single conversion (all 8) in the bible (including the house of Cornelius) were water baptized, and all but the apostles and Cornelius have no recording of ever being baptized by the HS as were they, but all, including them were water baptized.

Peter as we just seen in 1 Peter 3:20-21 says water baptism does now also save us, and Eph 4:5 says there is only one saving baptism :

Ephesians 4:5 (NKJV)
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

Therefore it is impossible to not conclude that one saving baptism is water baptism that washes away the sins of man making him righteous in the sight of God.

Acts 22:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'
Yes in the Spirit of Father, not the flesh of worldly service, masquerading as if well, when n o flesh is, outside of Christ's flesh that was and is the only flesh ever perfect
 
Mar 4, 2013
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We have seen recently some vicious attacks on this forum about the works of the law that focus on the carnal law. This is done because those that are attacking cannot see the law's spiritual significance for Christians today. I have determined that they have no alternative in their outlook, but to see the law as carnal, and labeling those who esteem God's words in that area as being carnal also.

They also say that love fulfills the law, and I agree, but they manifest nothing but hatred toward others that esteem the law as beneficial for Christians, and define it as the worst threat possible for God's children. So I will refer to the OP for all who read this for edification's sake, and expand with even more scripture from the OP. God bless all with understanding and His wonderful Holy Spirit given to remind us all of what is taught in His Holy Word.

John 14:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Romans 8:1-16 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

I'm sure there will be some that say this scripture is speaking of a new law that that has nothing to do with the original. There is a law of sin and death, and there is a law of liberty. These two involve the original. It was planned that way. First things first according to God's foreknowledge and perfection.
 
Mar 3, 2013
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A carnal mind cannot understand things of the Spirit of God and the adversary uses this ignorance to his own benefit against mankind. Nothing God instituted is abolished because God does not change – He said so Himself. He uses a progression of covenants to bring us back to the relationship He intended for us to have with Him. Those covenants are based one upon another starting back when Adam sinned and none have been abolished. The adversary uses our ignorance of these covenants and our responsibility within them, as his most effective weapon against us. The next most effective weapon he uses is our own human (carnal) nature, in the event one of us should decide it is worth the effort to learn what God really desires of us when we claim to be His children. In this case his weapon of choice in his arsenal of human nature is pride. Humility is required to truly learn – as in actually putting into practice what we learn – and that is in very short supply amongst most of us. (Evidence of this is seen by looking at threads here on cc about having humility and see how quickly they have died out for lack of interest.)
 
Mar 5, 2014
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Now I'm not trying to start an argument concerning the law. The point is to define the carnal mind to see if we have those attributes when reading scripture. Then if we see that within ourselves, to ask God through Christ Jesus, to clean up our act. We are to love Him with our mind, striving to understand the truth and relevance for today, about all that is written in the Bible since the beginning of time.

Romans 8:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
have you subjected yourself to the law's pronouncements against you? if so, you would be looking for God's solution. Christ crucified. that passage is referring to the fallen in adam, not the regenerate. but the games continue.
 
L

Least

Guest
We have seen recently some vicious attacks on this forum about the works of the law that focus on the carnal law. This is done because those that are attacking cannot see the law's spiritual significance for Christians today. I have determined that they have no alternative in their outlook, but to see the law as carnal, and labeling those who esteem God's words in that area as being carnal also.

They also say that love fulfills the law, and I agree, but they manifest nothing but hatred toward others that esteem the law as beneficial for Christians, and define it as the worst threat possible for God's children. So I will refer to the OP for all who read this for edification's sake, and expand with even more scripture from the OP. God bless all with understanding and His wonderful Holy Spirit given to remind us all of what is taught in His Holy Word.

John 14:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Romans 8:1-16 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

I'm sure there will be some that say this scripture is speaking of a new law that that has nothing to do with the original. There is a law of sin and death, and there is a law of liberty. These two involve the original. It was planned that way. First things first according to God's foreknowledge and perfection.
Goodness Just-us!

I have been studying about the earliest Church recorded in the beginning part of Acts. It's amazing the similarities between the Hebrew people being brought out of Egypt and the very first original church. I have tons of notes on this, and if you'd like I can forward them to you. I'll share a few similarities to show the how the verses that you shared answered the question I've been praying about. Glory to God!

I've read that passage so many times and never put this together!

When the Hebrew people were brought out of Egypt, God was in their midst. He brought them out as one people. His chosen people and every single person, (including the strangers) were required to uphold HIS commandments. The result of those who did not obey was harsh! If one person sinned, the entire camp was affected. When the people complained against God and Moses God sent fiery snakes among them.

Numbers 21:5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.
Numbers 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
Numbers 21:7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.
Numbers 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.


John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.


Jesus, the ultimate healer! The Great Physician!

(I'm really trying to keep this as short as I can.....)

Also in Numbers, remember Achan who took the spoils from the battle?

Joshua 7:24 And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them unto the valley of Achor.
Joshua 7:25 And Joshua said, Why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones.


It was a just judgment as that one sin affected the entire army in battle. They began to lose.

Joshua 7:4 So there went up thither of the people about three thousand men: and they fled before the men of Ai.
Joshua 7:5 And the men of Ai smote of them about thirty and six men: for they chased them from before the gate even unto Shebarim, and smote them in the going down: wherefore the hearts of the people melted, and became as water.
Joshua 7:6 And Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the LORD until the eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads.


But then, there’s a point where something changes, as seen in several chapters, Isaiah and Jeremiah are two good examples. Almost everyone had corrupted themselves, and God sent prophets to turn their hearts back to Him. Rather than destroy them . Jeremiah prophecies to them that they will once again be taken into captivity.

No judgment or justice was taking place. So God judged and sent them back into captivity by King Nebuchadnezzar.

Righteousness was all but gone...nobody gave it a thought or even considered the events from the wilderness that God had repeatedly reminded them to remember.

(There are more examples, but I'm going to jump to the earliest part of the church.)

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Acts 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Acts 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Acts 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

(skipping ahead to keep from making this more long than it is. Please read these complete chapters for yourselves.)

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Acts 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Acts 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


They were operating as one body by the Holy Spirit, and” had all things in common.” Very much like the Hebrew people when they were brought out of captivity.

We even see the result of one sin and the seriousness of it recorded in Ch. 5. Much the same as in the wilderness when one person sinned.

Acts 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Acts 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Acts 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Acts 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
Acts 5:6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
Acts 5:7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
Acts 5:8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
Acts 5:9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
Acts 5:10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
Acts 5:11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.


Romans 8:1-16 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Ananias, and Sapphira did not "mortify the deeds of the flesh." If they were walking in by the Spirit they would not have lied, and as we see in the passage, the result of this followed.

" [SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. "

[SUP]"13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
Just like in the wilderness, God was with them, even leading them by night with a pillar of fire, and by day with a pillar of cloud.

We see all the mighty wondering in the first part of Acts, and in the wilderness there were mighty wonders taking place.

Now remember, The earliest church started after Jesus ascended into heaven. The disciples has all been filled with the Holy Spirit, all were speaking in tounges and were heard by the many different people from different nations with different languages who were there for the feast. Through this, Peter was able to testify to the people, and Three thousand were added to the church!

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

God was among them, working through them!

And the standards of obedience were high!

Something changed along the way, I haven't found clarity on why, but I am praying about this.

The church nolonger gathered or lived together as one. Then the churches were formed, perhaps it was because of the Gentiles being brought in, who did not understand the ways of God, (a grace period perhaps?) I don't know...

To me, this is a glimpse of restoration, and people coming together as one body, as John Ch. 17, shows.

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

The earliest church had grace, because Christ had asended into heaven. And the presence of God was among them.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Ananias and Sapphira were walking by the flesh when they lied, and they both died.

Sorry this is so long...I tried to keep it short....:D
 
L

Least

Guest
I hope that all made sense...there's just so much!

Signing off for a while, I have to make dinner.
 
Mar 5, 2014
494
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Goodness Just-us!

I have been studying about the earliest Church recorded in the beginning part of Acts. It's amazing the similarities between the Hebrew people being brought out of Egypt and the very first original church. I have tons of notes on this, and if you'd like I can forward them to you. I'll share a few similarities to show the how the verses that you shared answered the question I've been praying about. Glory to God!

I've read that passage so many times and never put this together!

When the Hebrew people were brought out of Egypt, God was in their midst. He brought them out as one people. His chosen people and every single person, (including the strangers) were required to uphold HIS commandments. The result of those who did not obey was harsh! If one person sinned, the entire camp was affected. When the people complained against God and Moses God sent fiery snakes among them.

Numbers 21:5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.
Numbers 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
Numbers 21:7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.
Numbers 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.


John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.


Jesus, the ultimate healer! The Great Physician!

(I'm really trying to keep this as short as I can.....)

Also in Numbers, remember Achan who took the spoils from the battle?

Joshua 7:24 And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them unto the valley of Achor.
Joshua 7:25 And Joshua said, Why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones.


It was a just judgment as that one sin affected the entire army in battle. They began to lose.

Joshua 7:4 So there went up thither of the people about three thousand men: and they fled before the men of Ai.
Joshua 7:5 And the men of Ai smote of them about thirty and six men: for they chased them from before the gate even unto Shebarim, and smote them in the going down: wherefore the hearts of the people melted, and became as water.
Joshua 7:6 And Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the LORD until the eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads.


But then, there’s a point where something changes, as seen in several chapters, Isaiah and Jeremiah are two good examples. Almost everyone had corrupted themselves, and God sent prophets to turn their hearts back to Him. Rather than destroy them . Jeremiah prophecies to them that they will once again be taken into captivity.

No judgment or justice was taking place. So God judged and sent them back into captivity by King Nebuchadnezzar.

Righteousness was all but gone...nobody gave it a thought or even considered the events from the wilderness that God had repeatedly reminded them to remember.

(There are more examples, but I'm going to jump to the earliest part of the church.)

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Acts 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Acts 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Acts 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

(skipping ahead to keep from making this more long than it is. Please read these complete chapters for yourselves.)

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Acts 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Acts 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


They were operating as one body by the Holy Spirit, and” had all things in common.” Very much like the Hebrew people when they were brought out of captivity.

We even see the result of one sin and the seriousness of it recorded in Ch. 5. Much the same as in the wilderness when one person sinned.

Acts 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Acts 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Acts 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Acts 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
Acts 5:6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
Acts 5:7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
Acts 5:8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
Acts 5:9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
Acts 5:10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
Acts 5:11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.




Ananias, and Sapphira did not "mortify the deeds of the flesh." If they were walking in by the Spirit they would not have lied, and as we see in the passage, the result of this followed.



Just like in the wilderness, God was with them, even leading them by night with a pillar of fire, and by day with a pillar of cloud.

We see all the mighty wondering in the first part of Acts, and in the wilderness there were mighty wonders taking place.

Now remember, The earliest church started after Jesus ascended into heaven. The disciples has all been filled with the Holy Spirit, all were speaking in tounges and were heard by the many different people from different nations with different languages who were there for the feast. Through this, Peter was able to testify to the people, and Three thousand were added to the church!

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

God was among them, working through them!

And the standards of obedience were high!

Something changed along the way, I haven't found clarity on why, but I am praying about this.

The church nolonger gathered or lived together as one. Then the churches were formed, perhaps it was because of the Gentiles being brought in, who did not understand the ways of God, (a grace period perhaps?) I don't know...

To me, this is a glimpse of restoration, and people coming together as one body, as John Ch. 17, shows.

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

The earliest church had grace, because Christ had asended into heaven. And the presence of God was among them.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Ananias and Sapphira were walking by the flesh when they lied, and they both died.

Sorry this is so long...I tried to keep it short....:D
i wanted to give this a thumbs up. but cannot. you say you are still learning, this is good.:)

"It's amazing the similarities between the Hebrew people being brought out of Egypt and the very first original church."

that was the church. in the wilderness.

Acts 7
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

and unfortunately this next bit is the fruit of your current teachers (anti-gentile, which God is not pleased with, and anti-church, which God is not pleased with).

"Something changed along the way, I haven't found clarity on why, but I am praying about this.

The church no longer gathered or lived together as one. Then the churches were formed, perhaps it was because of the Gentiles being brought in, who did not understand the ways of God, (a grace period perhaps?) I don't know..."

keep studying about the persecution of the early church (christians). they were persecuted by jews as well as the romans. you don't know this? they gathered in houses and churches paul established. as one, no matter where on earth. you do know jerusalem was destroyed by God in ad70, don't you?
 
L

Least

Guest
i wanted to give this a thumbs up. but cannot. you say you are still learning, this is good.:)

"It's amazing the similarities between the Hebrew people being brought out of Egypt and the very first original church."

that was the church. in the wilderness.

Acts 7
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

and unfortunately this next bit is the fruit of your current teachers (anti-gentile, which God is not pleased with, and anti-church, which God is not pleased with).

"Something changed along the way, I haven't found clarity on why, but I am praying about this.

The church no longer gathered or lived together as one. Then the churches were formed, perhaps it was because of the Gentiles being brought in, who did not understand the ways of God, (a grace period perhaps?) I don't know..."

keep studying about the persecution of the early church (christians). they were persecuted by jews as well as the romans. you don't know this? they gathered in houses and churches paul established. as one, no matter where on earth. you do know jerusalem was destroyed by God in ad70, don't you?
Yes, I do know that the temple was destroyed in 70ad. The main point of the portion of my study that I shared was that not everyone was under grace.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Ananias, and Sapphira were part of the church, They were required, as the rest of the church to sell what they had and bring it to the apostles so that whatever need anyone had would be taken care of by the church. "But if any man has not the spirit of Christ, he is none of His." There were still laws present even after Christ ascended into heaven, and Ananias, and Sapphira were not subject to the law of God, and still under the law of sin and death. "neither indeed could they be." That is why "grace" didn't sustain them when they lied. They died much in the same manner as many of the people did in the wilderness for disobedience. They lied to the Holy Ghost.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

So it was a sin to lie, a transgression. It shows that the desires of their own hearts were greater than their desire to be pleasing to God. It showed that they were not abiding, and it showed that they were carnal minded. The desires of their own hearts overruled the instruction given to them.

So they were under the law of sin and death, that can only be taken away in Christ. Their actions showed that they were yet carnal.

I do appreciate your civil response. And love discussing scriptures without condescending attitudes...Discussions should be about edification, and not the destruction of a believer.

If God's word is upheld over opinions, edification is all that can happen.

Thank you for your response, I will look further into the persecution that the church endured from that point on. Still the strict standards of sin in the original church changed....and persecution wouldn't answer why that happened.

My question is more along the lines of why the standards changed. Today we don't see believers, or carnal professing believers "giving up the ghost" when they sin, as it says in acts concerning Ananias, and Sapphira, (Perhaps it's about God desire that no man perish, His mercy and His great patience.) Even in the OT, God showed great mercy to Nineveh when He sent Jonah to them. Jonah wanted to see all the people destroyed, but God said:

Jonah 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more then sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?


We know that the wages of sin is death, but only in, by and through Christ is there eternal life.

The carnal mind isn't subject to the law of God, so the gift of eternal life and grace is through and by Jesus, (those who walk in the spirit,) and the grace that comes because of HIM doesn't apply to the carnal mind. Not even to professing believers who walk carnally as was the case with Ananias, and Sapphira.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

As Just-me showed in several posts, the word gives us a picture of one who walks in the spirit, the "fruit of the spirit,"
And in Each case there are examples of the works of the flesh as well.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Goodness Just-us!

I have been studying about the earliest Church recorded in the beginning part of Acts. It's amazing the similarities between the Hebrew people being brought out of Egypt and the very first original church. I have tons of notes on this, and if you'd like I can forward them to you. I'll share a few similarities to show the how the verses that you shared answered the question I've been praying about. Glory to God!
From your post 770. I really liked what you conveyed. As I was reading all that you wrote, I was thinking about the feast of tabernacles and all things that were done during this festive time. If only the church today had the same attitude that those people had then, particularly during Hezekiah's reign, and also during the time of Haggai, Ezra, and Nehemiah, how much better the church would be in understanding than it is today. I plan on starting another thread within a month or two about this feast relating to the church, and the ministry of Jesus Christ. GBU SIS
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
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We have seen recently some vicious attacks on this forum about the works of the law that focus on the carnal law. This is done because those that are attacking cannot see the law's spiritual significance for Christians today. I have determined that they have no alternative in their outlook, but to see the law as carnal, and labeling those who esteem God's words in that area as being carnal also.

They also say that love fulfills the law, and I agree, but they manifest nothing but hatred toward others that esteem the law as beneficial for Christians, and define it as the worst threat possible for God's children. So I will refer to the OP for all who read this for edification's sake, and expand with even more scripture from the OP. God bless all with understanding and His wonderful Holy Spirit given to remind us all of what is taught in His Holy Word.

John 14:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Romans 8:1-16 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

I'm sure there will be some that say this scripture is speaking of a new law that that has nothing to do with the original. There is a law of sin and death, and there is a law of liberty. These two involve the original. It was planned that way. First things first according to God's foreknowledge and perfection.
To me Brother that was awesomely put, and yet i personally do not go to Church here on earth or am strict as to rest one day a week, when by what you wrote I am at rest 24/7 in Spirit and truth. which is to me what was meant all along to rest in Father through Son, whether I go to Church on any day of the week, for every day to me is this Ecclesia to be correct in wording, called out one, and be ready in season and out of season to give the account for my Joy, peace and righteousness found only through Son's finished work for us all that beleive
So I have entered into and so have you and all that do beleive God at God's word, our redeemer today lived here on earth redeemed us by his body alone and we are made free in the Spirit of Father by this final sacrifice and shedding of blood for all sin. It is done finished and we are presented to Father as perfect before Father and thus when we accept this invite through Son we are made new in Spirit and truth and love as we see we are loved no matter what Too busy praising no time to harm another
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
i wanted to give this a thumbs up. but cannot. you say you are still learning, this is good.:)

"It's amazing the similarities between the Hebrew people being brought out of Egypt and the very first original church."

that was the church. in the wilderness.

Acts 7
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

and unfortunately this next bit is the fruit of your current teachers (anti-gentile, which God is not pleased with, and anti-church, which God is not pleased with).

"Something changed along the way, I haven't found clarity on why, but I am praying about this.

The church no longer gathered or lived together as one. Then the churches were formed, perhaps it was because of the Gentiles being brought in, who did not understand the ways of God, (a grace period perhaps?) I don't know..."

keep studying about the persecution of the early church (christians). they were persecuted by jews as well as the romans. you don't know this? they gathered in houses and churches paul established. as one, no matter where on earth. you do know jerusalem was destroyed by God in ad70, don't you?
Out with the flesh and in with the Spirit of God by the finished work of Christ, in a nutshell is this what you are saying, that is what i got out of it, and thanks
 
Mar 5, 2014
494
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Out with the flesh and in with the Spirit of God by the finished work of Christ, in a nutshell is this what you are saying, that is what i got out of it, and thanks
well if you mean by flesh, worldly, yes. out with the worldly view of people (2 Corinthians 5) and in with the new way.

Philippians 3
3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. For me to write the same things to you is not tedious, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit,[a] rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, 4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

paul considers all his works and prior thoughts about himself (flesh/worldly) worthless compared to being received by God according to faith in Christ.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
well if you mean by flesh, worldly, yes. out with the worldly view of people (2 Corinthians 5) and in with the new way.

Philippians 3
3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. For me to write the same things to you is not tedious, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit,[a] rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, 4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

paul considers all his works and prior thoughts about himself (flesh/worldly) worthless compared to being received by God according to faith in Christ.
Yes we are in agreement Brother, our new Spirit alive by Christ to Father in the resurrected Christ we move and have our being here as ambassadors representing the love, Joy, peace righteousness and quietness given to us by belief (Faith) in the finished work of Christ for us. god the Father passes us from flesh death to new life in the Spirit and holds our old flesh alive to do this representing as ambassadors, we walking by Faith