What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

[eternally-gratefull]

One more time. for just me.

am I right or am i wrong, and if i am wrong, how so??



Love your neighbor as yourself.

If I do this. I do not need the words which say do not covet what you rneighbor has, Do not bear false witness against your neighbor. Do not kill your neighbor. Do not fornicate with your neighbors daughter, or commit adultery with his wife. etc etc etc.

I just use the law of love, and those things would not even cross my mind.

But according to you the way to do it is to FOCUS on the do nots' For that will make you righteous.

That just is not so. God wants us to do so much, He does not want us to focus on the "do not's". If we do this all the time, we will not do what he really wants us to do. Which is love our neighbor and serve him. And to take the love God has given you and pass it on to him. (allow God to use you)

Again, Why are you so afraid to admit this?

Lets focus on the does. and allow the do not's to go where they belong. for they will never show you how to do the "do's"

 

[just-me]

I have the bible and prayer and the Spirit that the Lord Jesus has given me. I didn't have any way of judging what was of Him and what was not until the Lord opened my understanding through the Spirit.

That is why I gave you the example of Judaism. They have the word of God but not His Spirit.

Of course the Word of God is Spiritual. His Words are Spirit and they are Life.

The carnal mind understands the 10 commandments just fine. The carnal mind just has no ability to keep them.

But the carnal mind is not subject to the law, it rejects it. That's what the scripture says. Not my words.

 

[Grandpa]

They have their understanding darkened by God for our sakes.

To "keep the law" takes lots of understanding of many scriptures, every one of which is important to each other, and each agrees. Some quote legalism, or looking at law without understanding the love in it, or expecting it to save or it must be tossed out, many look at it without understanding any one part of it so the whole is corrupted.

I have read many posters who seems to have an understanding of law, but I have noticed that all of them that do have also an understanding of Judaism as God's word that leads to Christ.

So if I were to rely 100% on the fruit of the Spirit would I be keeping the law? Or not?

 

[just-me]

One more time. for just me.

am I right or am i wrong, and if i am wrong, how so??



Love your neighbor as yourself.

If I do this. I do not need the words which say do not covet what you rneighbor has, Do not bear false witness against your neighbor. Do not kill your neighbor. Do not fornicate with your neighbors daughter, or commit adultery with his wife. etc etc etc.

I just use the law of love, and those things would not even cross my mind.

But according to you the way to do it is to FOCUS on the do nots' For that will make you righteous.

That just is not so. God wants us to do so much, He does not want us to focus on the "do not's". If we do this all the time, we will not do what he really wants us to do. Which is love our neighbor and serve him. And to take the love God has given you and pass it on to him. (allow God to use you)

Again, Why are you so afraid to admit this?

Lets focus on the does. and allow the do not's to go where they belong. for they will never show you how to do the "do's"

If you already know it, do you use it for the glory of God, or is your ministry to others that they should reject it because it doesn't save? Many that have rejected the principles thereof make up their own description of love because they haven't studied to show themselves approved. As I have already said, the law is much more than NOTS. It is also dos, and full of God's righteous ways because He loves us. We should see that as David saw it. He's a good example for us.

 

[RedTent]

So your answer is no I won't make it in?

How could it possibly be that I could know you as God knows you! We are talking about scripture, not about taking over God's place of judging each other.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you already know it, do you use it for the glory of God, or is your ministry to others that they should reject it because it doesn't save? Many that have rejected the principles thereof make up their own description of love because they haven't studied to show themselves approved.

reject what?

What are you so afraid of?

Am I right in what I said or not?

And if not. Where did i go wrong??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So if I were to rely 100% on the fruit of the Spirit would I be keeping the law? Or not?

I am dumbfounded as to why no one will answer you. What are they afraid of?

 

[Grandpa]

But the carnal mind is not subject to the law, it rejects it. That's what the scripture says. Not my words.

You need to post the scripture that says what you think it says.

The carnal mind understands the 10 commandments just fine. The reason why it is not subject to them is because it cannot perform them.

You know. Like a kings subjects. The carnal mind is not a subject of our Kings Law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But the carnal mind is not subject to the law, it rejects it. That's what the scripture says. Not my words.

yep it does reject it. But at one time we all had to admit it was real. Or we would never have come to Christ.

As paul said in romans 1. We all WILLINGLY reject it. although we all KNOW it is real..

 

[RedTent]

So if I were to rely 100% on the fruit of the Spirit would I be keeping the law? Or not?

I don't think that scripture tells us to use the fruits of the spirit in this way. We are to learn from the law. We are to learn from the fruits of the spirit. If I was responsible for leading someone to scripture for how to live after they knew Christ and understood all about Him, I would point to instructions about living first, and show them the fruits as the result of their accepting Christ as the leader of their life.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The key is striving understanding the spiritual concepts of all the Bible including the law, not to just reject it as past, or nothing but condemnation. Sorry you misunderstood. I think that I have been misunderstood because of the presumption that I'm doing that just because I mentioned that a carnal mind cannot be in subjection to the law.

Romans 8:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Subject 5293. hupotasso hoop-ot-as'-so from 5259 and 5021; to subordinate; reflexively, to obey:--be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.

read post #142 and you will understand hopefully. The canal mind cannot comprehend the spiritual aspects of the law.

I will go back and read post #142.

The reason that the carnal mind is enmity against God and is not subject to the law of God is stated right in the context which I had already posted.

For that that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh = one with a carnal mind
but they that are after the Spirit; the things of the Spirit = spiritual mind
For to be carnally minded is death = without the Spirit
but to be spiritually minded is life and peace = with the Spirit
Because the carnal mind (flesh) is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God neither indeed can be = ye must be born again
So then they that are in the flesh (carnal minded) cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. = those that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his = carnal mind

It's pretty simple when you take in the whole context. Spiritual mind - comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God - FAITH is born!!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't think that scripture tells us to use the fruits of the spirit in this way. We are to learn from the law. We are to learn from the fruits of the spirit. If I was responsible for leading someone to scripture for how to live after they knew Christ and understood all about Him, I would point to instructions about living first, and show them the fruits as the result of their accepting Christ as the leader of their life.

ok. So someone has come to Christ, and admitted (according to the law) they are sinners.

what would you point them to as a guide to know how to live a righteous life?

The law (which they already said they understood)


or the life of Christ. the life of the OT saints who showed us how to love God, and the mistakes they made, and the instructions of the NT apostles, who showed us all how to follow the leading of the spirit?

 

[just-me]

reject what?

What are you so afraid of?

Am I right in what I said or not?

And if not. Where did i go wrong??

I see nothing but rejection of the law from you because you see it that way only. The difference between you and I is that I see it in the positive because I'm not under it. The light comes from above. If a person is under it, the light doesn't shine because of the negative shadow in the carnal mind. Who's afraid? Not me. Half truth is no truth. It's deception. Love is shedding light on darkness.

1 John 4:18-21 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]We love him, because he first loved us.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

 

[Grandpa]

How could it possibly be that I could know you as God knows you! We are talking about scripture, not about taking over God's place of judging each other.

I didn't say you had the power to get me there.

I was just asking a hypothetical question.

 

[just-me]

You need to post the scripture that says what you think it says.

The carnal mind understands the 10 commandments just fine. The reason why it is not subject to them is because it cannot perform them.

You know. Like a kings subjects. The carnal mind is not a subject of our Kings Law.

Read post #142.

Romans 8:6-8 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Mark 7:6-9 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see nothing but rejection of the law from you because you see it that way only.

lol. Ok. You just proves you ignore everything anyone says.

You can not answer if I am right or wrong because you refuse to even acknowledge it.

The difference between you and I is that I see it in the positive because I'm not under it.

You contradict yourself here. Your the one who states we have to be under it. I am the one who states It has no power over me.

You do not see the positive in it, Your still looking at it negatively. You still think it has power over you. I am looking positive, Because God has released me from the power of it. And showed me how to walk in his steps.

The light comes from above. If a person is under it, the light doesn't shine because of the negative shadow in the carnal mind. Who's afraid? Not me. Half truth is no truth. It's deception.

No you are afraid.

You did not show me how I was wrong in what I said, you made a general observation of it, and just said I was wrong.

If you were not afraid. You would say.

I disagree with you here, And this is the way it should be done.

But you never seem to want to do this. Even though people give you the respect to do it for you all the time.

 

[just-me]

lol. Ok. You just proves you ignore everything anyone says.

You can not answer if I am right or wrong because you refuse to even acknowledge it.
You contradict yourself here. Your the one who states we have to be under it. I am the one who states It has no power over me.

You do not see the positive in it, Your still looking at it negatively. You still think it has power over you. I am looking positive, Because God has released me from the power of it. And showed me how to walk in his steps.

No you are afraid.
You did not show me how I was wrong in what I said, you made a general observation of it, and just said I was wrong.

If you were not afraid. You would say.

I disagree with you here, And this is the way it should be done.

But you never seem to want to do this. Even though people give you the respect to do it for you all the time.

That's ok that you have determined that I am afraid of something. Show me a quotation of mine that clearly says "Your the one who states we have to be under it." If you can't, the fear you say that I have may come back to haunt you.

 

[Grandpa]

Read post #142.

Romans 8:6-8 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Mark 7:6-9 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

None of that says that the carnal mind doesn't understand the law or rejects it. Look at Judaism. They think they understand the law and keep it. Do they? Well they have a carnal understanding...

It says that the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God. Meaning like a kings subjects. The carnal mind is not subject to the Kings Law. Even when it thinks it is...

The Lord, in Mark 7, says to people who think they keep the law in their own power that they Reject the Law, keeping the traditions of men.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I'm still not understanding why everyone keeps bringing up "the law". We are not under THE LAW, ANY LAW. The 10 commandments hang on the first great commandment and the second and we even see scriptures in the church epistles that contain them. The law is fulfilled in love. . . .

(Matt. 5:17) Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law: pleroo: 1. to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full; to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally; to render full, i.e. to complete ; to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim; to consummate: a number; to make complete in every particular, to render perfect; to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking); to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise; of matters of duty: to perform, execute; of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish; to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

Jesus Christ redeemed us from the law and brought about a better testament - we no longer offer gifts and sacrifices to gain a good conscience which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances BECAUSE Christ being come an high priest of good things to come by a greater and more perfect tabernacle . . . Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. For if the blood of bulls and of goats and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purigying of the flesh: HOW MUCH MORE SHALL THE BLOOD OF CHRIST, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God. Hebrews 9

What does he call those sacrifices, a conscience that relied on meats and drinks, divers washings, carnal ordinances - DEAD WORKS. . . .

 

[just-me]

None of that says that the carnal mind doesn't understand the law or rejects it. Look at Judaism. They think they understand the law and keep it. Do they? Well they have a carnal understanding...

It says that the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God. Meaning like a kings subjects. The carnal mind is not subject to the Kings Law. Even when it thinks it is...

The Lord, in Mark 7, says to people who think they keep the law in their own power that they Reject the Law, keeping the traditions of men.

"They think they understand" is the right way to say it. I agree.

Post #142 describes it, I will post it again

Paul preaches not to be under the law to the Galatians, and yet says that it’s carnal not to be subject to the law of God. As we can see by the Greek word “*hupo,” being under the law is to be in an inferior position in comparison to the law. Now, if we are to be **subject to the law because we are no longer of a carnal mind, we are to be in obedience to the law, (**hupotasso) which puts us right back under the law. Hello???
*“Under”

5259.*hupo hoop-o' a primary preposition; under, i.e. (with the genitive case=relating to birth In the comparative, especially of inferior position or condition.

Galatians 3:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Galatians 4:4-5 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Galatians 5:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
**“Ordained”

5021. **tasso tas'-so appears only in certain tenses); to arrange in an orderly manner, i.e. assign or dispose (to a certain position or lot):--addict, appoint, determine, ordain, set.
Acts 13:48 (KJV)
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were **ordained to eternal life believed.

***Subject
As we see here, “Subject,” “subjection,” and “submit” are all the same Greek word.
5293. **hupotasso hoop-ot-as'-so from 5259 and 5021; to subordinate to obey:--be under obedience put under, be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.
Romans 8:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not **subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Hebrews 12:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in **subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
James 4:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 **[/SUP]Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

So with these definitions, to be **ordained (**tasso) places us in a different *position (*hupo) to the law even though we are ***subject to the law (***hupotasso) if we are not of a carnal mind even though we are not under it. Henceforth, the change is within us, not within the law, because we are given the capability to see the spiritual relevance of the Law as a parable.