What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

[just-me]

to add to this..

God laws is even written into the hearts of the unregenerate. (romans 1)

the passage you spoke of. is that we finally AGREE with th elaw. Which God said in romans 1 we already know (that is called repentance) And have the new law (the law of love) written in our hearts. so we know how to live for Christ.

Do I see this right that you believe there is another law that replaces the first law?

Isaiah 29:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I endorse being subject to the law. I endorse that the carnal mind is not subject to the law because I agree with the word of God. I never said one should be under the law. You said that I said that, and that was not true. It's your imagination that speaks. I will ask you one more time to speak in private with me concerning your accusation.

so again, You refuse to answer my question.

We cannot discuss anything, because you will not even answer my question.

You believe we must be subject to the law. And the law shows us how to live righteous (I never claimed you said it shows us how to be saved)

I believe we are no longer under subjection to the law. BECAUSE the law CANNOT show us how to live righteous.

The question is NOT how do we get saved. The question IS how do we live a life for Christ (the salvation question went away along time ago)

You know that is what I have been saying. So why go in private?

I will ask you one more time..

Love your neighbor as yourself.

If I do this. I do not need the words which say do not covet what your neighbor has, Do not bear false witness against your neighbor. Do not kill your neighbor. Do not fornicate with your neighbors daughter, or commit adultery with his wife. etc etc etc.I just use the law of love, and those things would not even cross my mind.

I made it small for you..

Yes or no. Is this wrong or right. and why?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do I see this right that you believe there is another law that replaces the first law?

I see that there are two laws (do's) in that Christ said all of the law and prophets are fulfilled in.

If I do the two (the does) I do not have to focus on the do nots. why would I have to focus on the do nots. when I have the Dos which show me how to live a life pleasing to God?

 

[just-me]

so again, You refuse to answer my question.

We cannot discuss anything, because you will not even answer my question.

You believe we must be subject to the law. And the law shows us how to live righteous (I never claimed you said it shows us how to be saved)

I believe we are no longer under subjection to the law. BECAUSE the law CANNOT show us how to live righteous.

The question is NOT how do we get saved. The question IS how do we live a life for Christ (the salvation question went away along time ago)

You know that is what I have been saying. So why go in private?

I will ask you one more time..

Love your neighbor as yourself.

If I do this. I do not need the words which say do not covet what your neighbor has, Do not bear false witness against your neighbor. Do not kill your neighbor. Do not fornicate with your neighbors daughter, or commit adultery with his wife. etc etc etc.I just use the law of love, and those things would not even cross my mind.

I made it small for you..

Yes or no. Is this wrong or right. and why?

Yes we are to be subject to the law, if not we are of a canal mind. Not my words but God's word. Now what you wrote in red. How can you say you love me if you endorse false accusations? You answer my question now.

 

[just-me]

I see that there are two laws (do's) in that Christ said all of the law and prophets are fulfilled in.

If I do the two (the does) I do not have to focus on the do nots. why would I have to focus on the do nots. when I have the Dos which show me how to live a life pleasing to God?

You got scripture for that? I have a scripture reference.

Romans 7:22-23 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Evidently you only see the law in ones members, and refuse to serve the law that Paul said he did. Where is the other one?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes we are to be subject to the law, if not we are of a canal mind.

I disagree.

If I am focused on love, and living like Christ, and seeking the things of the spirit. I am not carnal. How can you sit here and say I am carnal when my focus is on God?

Not my words but God's word. Now what you wrote in red. How can you say you love me if you endorse false accusations? You answer my question now.

No, What I am going to do is chasten you as a brother in Christ. i already answered your question. and yet again you prove you do not read a thing I say. Your question was answered. in the very post you demand an answer to in your reply.

and your chstening is because I asked you this question HOURS AGO. yet you have refused to answer mine, then demand I answer yours? (Which I have done anyway?)

wow!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You got scripture for that? I have a scripture reference.

Romans 7:22-23 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Evidently you only see the law in ones members, and refuse to serve the law that Paul said he did. Where is the other one?

Your joking right??

Again you show you do not read anything, i already posted this before. so I did not think I had to post it again.

Matt 22:
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Why do you need more. ALL the commands are fulfilled in these two commands.

 

[just-me]

1 Corinthians 3:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
Hebrews 9:8-10 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

 

[RedTent]

Well EG and Gramps, how about explaining this to me? Perhaps you can tell me how I am misunderstanding this...

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

I keep thinking that John says that keeping the Commandments is the love of God. Explain to me why it isn't true.

EG and Gramps are wonderful people of God with a good command of scripture. I would bet if we met them we would only admire all they are. But they are being used by demons in just one way----they are teaching against reading the written law.

It isn't affecting their walk with the Lord, both speak for the law just from a different angle. Getting rid of written law is being used by our churches to weaken it, as it allows acceptance of what is sinful to enter our churches. It is part of what we are told to expect in the last days.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Do I see this right that you believe there is another law that replaces the first law?

Isaiah 29:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

Hebrews 8:6,7 But now hath he (Jesus Christ) obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. . . . . 13) in that he saith, A new covenant he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come and not the very image of the things can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 9) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. . . .14) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified . . .

 

[just-me]

Yes we are to be subject to the law, if not we are of a canal mind. Not my words but God's word. Now what you wrote in red. How can you say you love me if you endorse false accusations? You answer my question now.

I disagree.

If I am focused on love, and living like Christ, and seeking the things of the spirit. I am not carnal. How can you sit here and say I am carnal when my focus is on God?



No, What I am going to do is chasten you as a brother in Christ. i already answered your question. and yet again you prove you do not read a thing I say. Your question was answered. in the very post you demand an answer to in your reply.

and your chstening is because I asked you this question HOURS AGO. yet you have refused to answer mine, then demand I answer yours? (Which I have done anyway?)

wow!

It is obvious that you disagree with this scripture then.

Romans 8:4-8 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

I'm done striving. I've done all I can do for your benefit, but you refuse. I'm saddened with your reactions.

 

[just-me]

Hebrews 8:6,7 But now hath he (Jesus Christ) obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. . . . . 13) in that he saith, A new covenant he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come and not the very image of the things can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 9) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. . . .14) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified . . .

Get a load of these scripture and take out the italicized words "covenant" that are added words in translation, for a better understanding. I think you will see that the temple is what Hebrews is taking about that is ready to vanish, not God's words in any of the previous covenants.

Hebrews 8:4-5 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Hebrews 8:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Hebrews 8:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 9:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

Hebrews 9:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Same ordinance, different place.

2 Corinthians 5:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Haggai 2:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts.

What do you think?

 

[just-me]

Romans 12:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

This is not a new ordinance.

Leviticus 1:3-5 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And he shall kill the bullock before the LORD: and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall bring the blood, and sprinkle the blood round about upon the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

1 Peter 2:24-25 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

 

[just-me]

Now we know how to detect a carnal mind and strive to help those who cannot understand.

2 Timothy 2:25-26 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Matthew 7:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Judge not, that ye be not judged.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

John 7:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

I started this thread for all to see and have compassion toward all men and women, even if they fight against the truth. God Bless all with wisdom and understanding. Keep shining the light my friends, keep reflecting the light of truth.

Genesis 1:16a (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night:

 

[svedbygrace]

Your joking right??

Again you show you do not read anything, i already posted this before. so I did not think I had to post it again.

Matt 22:
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Why do you need more. ALL the commands are fulfilled in these two commands.

So you do know, considering your implication that God made adam perfect, and since adam sinned, then that's a reflection on God, Obviously He cannot make a being perfect without that being proving to be imperfect and failing the test !

hat shows you have a real low view of God, a Blasphemous view. So tell me, in Heaven when men shall be perfect, will it be possible for them to rebel again like adam did in his perfect state ?

 

[chubbena]

I see less and less scripture is quoted and more and more human reasoning is used to speak against the law. This is normal.

 

[just-me]

I see less and less scripture is quoted and more and more human reasoning is used to speak against the law. This is normal.

Yes it is. The panoramic view in all the scripture is much more than just a few passages. It has to all match. If it doesn't, one has no alternative but to reject other scriptures saying they aren't relevant anymore.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Get a load of these scripture and take out the italicized words "covenant" that are added words in translation, for a better understanding. I think you will see that the temple is what Hebrews is taking about that is ready to vanish, not God's words in any of the previous covenants.

Hebrews 8:4-5 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. Hebrews 8:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Why did you skip v6 - But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises - subject is covenant established upon better promises so where covenant is added it is correct.

Hebrews 8:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

v8 when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. . . .9) Not accroding to the covenant that I made iwth their fathers. . . . .10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days. . . . .the subject is still covenant so added correctly

Hebrews 9:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary

Hebrews 9:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Same ordinance, different place.

1a) The first covenant had also ordinances of divine service,
1b) and a wordly sanctuary - subject now changes to the sanctuary, the tabernacle, priest, high priest all a figure fo the time then present 1b-9
(my emphasis) Now the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service (1) which included the offering of both gifts and sacrifices, those things that stood in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, wherein the high priest made these sacrifices but they were nothing but dead works.
11) But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands that is to say, not of this building by his own blood - not by the blood of goats and calves (sacrifices) he enters into the holy place having obtained eternal redemption for us. 15) Andfor this cause he is the mediator of the new testament (covenant) that by means of death for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

2 Corinthians 5:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Haggai 2:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts.

What do you think?

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen" for the things which are senn are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal - WHY? 5:1,2 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle (our bodies) were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens - WHY? For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven - This is speaking of our resurrected bodies. . . .

Just let me say - It's okay to take verses out of context when doing just a word study but when trying to study a context - it ain't good! lol And it is very hard to follow the point that is trying to be put across.

 

[Wildflower]

Just-me,

What is the inward man?

What does it mean to be a living sacrifice?

What does it mean to be dead to sin?

What does it mean to be dead to the law?

What does it mean to walk by faith?

What is the law of faith?

What does it mean that we know no man after the flesh?

What does it mean that we are not to war after the flesh?

I am reading your posts, I don't know what your thoughts are according to these things?

What do you say this verse means;

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


Are we made alive, and are we made free so that we can turn to our flesh and be consumed with it or be consumed by it, over the work of the Spirit?

Sin dwells in our flesh, it wants to be your master, put you in bondage to trying to clean it up by carnalizing God's law, God's word, work and gifts in Christ. You do not know your identity as God declares, you are dead 'it is not I that live'. God had to kill you, to allow Christ to be your life, crucified, living sacrifice, Christ be formed in you, God was manifest in the flesh, this is a part of the mystery program pertaining to the church the body of Christ. Awake to righteousness, Jesus calls us to rest in Him, He is faithful.

Eph 5:14
Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

 

[just-me]

Why did you skip v6 - But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises - subject is covenant established upon better promises so where covenant is added it is correct.

It was for you to see the focus, not to negate that through Jesus there is a better covenant, and a complete one. Many say that the old covenant is past, but the new involves the old covenant. What is vanished is the physical, and the complete spiritual in is effect through Christ Jesus. Like the relevance of the temple being within us now, because Jesus built that one, and not man. The verses with the added words of "covenant" in the scripture I gave originally refer to this new temple.

v8 when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. . . .9) Not accroding to the covenant that I made iwth their fathers. . . . .10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days. . . . .the subject is still covenant so added correctly

This is prophecy come to past. Jeremiah 31:31-33 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

1a) The first covenant had also ordinances of divine service,
1b) and a wordly sanctuary - subject now changes to the sanctuary, the tabernacle, priest, high priest all a figure fo the time then present 1b-9
(my emphasis) Now the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service (1) which included the offering of both gifts and sacrifices, those things that stood in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, wherein the high priest made these sacrifices but they were nothing but dead works.
11) But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands that is to say, not of this building by his own blood - not by the blood of goats and calves (sacrifices) he enters into the holy place having obtained eternal redemption for us. 15) Andfor this cause he is the mediator of the new testament (covenant) that by means of death for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen" for the things which are senn are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal - WHY? 5:1,2 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle (our bodies) were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens - WHY? For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven - This is speaking of our resurrected bodies. . . .

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. (And the law is spiritual according to Romans 7:14)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Just let me say - It's okay to take verses out of context when doing just a word study but when trying to study a context - it ain't good! lol And it is very hard to follow the point that is trying to be put across.

In summary. Leviticus 26:9-13 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright.