What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

[chubbena]

how.

when they say the same thing..

Wow do people even read when they respond??

read post #359

 

[eternally-gratefull]

read post #359

lol. And this says what?

Read both posts again.

They say the exact same thing. they do not contradict each other.

 

[dcontroversal]

So it would be contradicting to say

Wouldn't it?

I don't look at it like that....I view it this way.....

1. By keeping the above two commandments we will by default fulfill the righteousness of the law as we will be doing the others that are listed after the first two such as not..

1. Steal from them
2. Cheat them
3. Murder them
4. Commit adultery with them
5. Etc.....

I call it the circle of Love and Commandments......which by the way can only be done by those who are truly born again by the Holy Spirit of God...

Love God by keeping His commandments-->Keeping the commandments allows us to Love our neighbors and proves that love we have toward our neighbors by keeping the commandment(s) of God which is loving God which allows us to love our neighbors...if you will!

 

[chubbena]

lol. And this says what?

Read both posts again.

They say the exact same thing. they do not contradict each other.

So why would you say

I do not need the words which say do not covet what your neighbor has, Do not bear false witness against your neighbor. Do not kill your neighbor. Do not fornicate with your neighbors daughter, or commit adultery with his wife. etc etc etc.

which is a direct contradiction of

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.

 

[chubbena]

I don't look at it like that....I view it this way.....

1. By keeping the above two commandments we will by default fulfill the righteousness of the law as we will be doing the others that are listed after the first two such as not..

1. Steal from them
2. Cheat them
3. Murder them
4. Commit adultery with them
5. Etc.....

I call it the circle of Love and Commandments......which by the way can only be done by those who are truly born again by the Holy Spirit of God...

Love God by keeping His commandments-->Keeping the commandments allows us to Love our neighbors and proves that love we have toward our neighbors by keeping the commandment(s) of God which is loving God which allows us to love our neighbors...if you will!

It wasn't direct at you but if you feel oblige to defend him then please answer post #364.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So why would you say

which is a direct contradiction of

No. Because you left out the first and last part of my post.

why would you do this?

Lets look at it again. in its complete form

Love your neighbor as yourself.

If I do this.

I do not need the words which say do not covet what your neighbor has, Do not bear false witness against your neighbor. Do not kill your neighbor. Do not fornicate with your neighbors daughter, or commit adultery with his wife. etc etc etc.

I just use the law of love, and those things would not even cross my mind. Because I LOVE My neighbor and am not thinking of self.

See what happens when you take things out of context. You distort what was actually said. And make a mockery of it

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It wasn't direct at you but if you feel oblige to defend him then please answer post #364.

Better yet.

Why do you not look at both posts like I asked you to. And get my post in context. And stop making me say something i never said!

Then you will see.

We both said the same thing!

 

[just-me]

Are the love commandments New Covenant, or Old Covenant? What I read in the Bible is they are both. Any body agree or disagree with that?

 

[RedTent]

Red tent.

Can you do me a favor.

I asked this question many times yeterday. and the person i asked it does not feel that he has to answer it.

Can you?? (you seem to be open)

Love your neighbor as yourself.

If I do this.

I do not need the words which say do not covet what your neighbor has, Do not bear false witness against your neighbor. Do not kill your neighbor. Do not fornicate with your neighbors daughter, or commit adultery with his wife. etc etc etc.

I just use the law of love, and those things would not even cross my mind. Because I LOVE My neighbor and am not thinking of self.

WOuld you agree or disagree with this. and why?

I disagree with anything that limits the words of scripture. We agree on everything but that. We agree that love should lead and everything must be checked with that. We agree that the spirit should lead. We agree on some of the things the law is made for.

I think all people, especially the babies in Christ, should be open to ALL scripture. When I studied law I used the concordance for a list of every scripture in the bible that had the word law in it, printed it all out, and studied every single one, knew each scripture was of God and explained law. This is the mind set I think is necessary in regard to law. That includes what you say it is, but it also includes many things that you are not telling us about.

You are a mature Christian, I would bet that there are years of study and prayer behind your growth. When you say "love your neighbor" you have in your mind and heart every law that explains that, it is second nature to you. Many in the church do not. When you tell them not to listen, just to love, they need to have in their mind what you put in long ago.

Our churches are even accepting lesbian women leaders, as an extreme example of the lowering of moral standards accepted. We need to help!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are the love commandments New Covenant, or Old Covenant? What I read in the Bible is they are both. Any body agree or disagree with that?

They are both
And they contain the do not commands. So we do not need the do nots. if we follow the does.

But some people seem to need the do nots. Why? I have no clue..

If we focus so much on the do nots. Not only will we be tempted to do the do nots (as paul explained in romans, and we see experienced by a child who is told no by a parent, where the temptation to sin increases) we will not focus on doing the "dos" and we will be held back. And risk being pridefull and arrogant judgmental creatures in the eyes of the world.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I disagree with anything that limits the words of scripture. We agree on everything but that. We agree that love should lead and everything must be checked with that. We agree that the spirit should lead. We agree on some of the things the law is made for.

I think all people, especially the babies in Christ, should be open to ALL scripture. When I studied law I used the concordance for a list of every scripture in the bible that had the word law in it, printed it all out, and studied every single one, knew each scripture was of God and explained law. This is the mind set I think is necessary in regard to law. That includes what you say it is, but it also includes many things that you are not telling us about.

You are a mature Christian, I would bet that there are years of study and prayer behind your growth. When you say "love your neighbor" you have in your mind and heart every law that explains that, it is second nature to you. Many in the church do not. When you tell them not to listen, just to love, they need to have in their mind what you put in long ago.

Our churches are even accepting lesbian women leaders, as an extreme example of the lowering of moral standards accepted. We need to help!!!

Yes we do need help. I would agree very much

But preaching the law is not going to help It did Not Help Isreal. It is not going to help us. we need to focus on so much more

That person should be confronted by the church leaders. Because it is obvious they have not yet repented. thus the law has not done it job in them yet. However, As James said, they already know the law, And have hid it in their heart. Judging them with the law is not going to help them, They already know they are guilty.

They remind me of the people James spoke of. Hearers and not doers of the words. No work. Was their faith alive (Are they saved) Well if they have no works, their faith is dead, can their faith (lack of) save them??

But to those who are following Christ. The law has no value. Only love and hope and following the spirit has value.

 

[just-me]

They are both
And they contain the do not commands. So we do not need the do nots. if we follow the does.

But some people seem to need the do nots. Why? I have no clue..

If we focus so much on the do nots. Not only will we be tempted to do the do nots (as paul explained in romans, and we see experienced by a child who is told no by a parent, where the temptation to sin increases) we will not focus on doing the "dos" and we will be held back. And risk being pridefull and arrogant judgmental creatures in the eyes of the world.

You have indicate that you focus on the do not's. I say if we spend all our time doing the do's, we won't have time to do the don't's. Therefore, I see the law as a benefit, I am not condemned by it in the least. So why do we, as believers in Christ, put down the do's of the law if in fact the finite details of love are in the law? Should we not be teaching them rather than negating them by our rhetoric?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You have indicate that you focus on the do not's. I say if we spend all our time doing the do's, we won't have time to do the don't's. Therefore, I see the law as a benefit, I am not condemned by it in the least. So why do we, as believers in Christ, put down the do's of the law if in fact the finite details of love are in the law? Should we not be teaching them rather than negating them by our rhetoric?

you have it backwards. I said focus on the do's not the do nots

can you reread, and then repost your question so I am sure I have it right.

Thanks

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Are the love commandments New Covenant, or Old Covenant? What I read in the Bible is they are both. Any body agree or disagree with that?

GOD says if you love me keep my commandments and that goes for the old and new covenants,the problem is that in the old covenant,you are just using will-power with no help and in the new you have help.


A human being because the law of sin and death is warring against the inward man and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members(flesh) keeps me finding myself unable to stop sinning.

thats make me feel condemnation (guilty)

JESUS magnified the law from just doing it and saying you are keeping GODs standard to believing it sincerly on the inside and keeping/desiring to do it

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

JESUS did the work and said that there is no more condemnation to those who believe in him(what he did at the cross).

THe bible says that
JESUS died for us and rose again

 

[just-me]

GOD says if you love me keep my commandments and that goes for the old and new covenants,the problem is that in the old covenant,you are just using will-power with no help and in the new you have help.


A human being because the law of sin and death is warring against the inward man and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members(flesh) keeps me finding myself unable to stop sinning.

thats make me feel condemnation (guilty)

JESUS magnified the law from just doing it and saying you are keeping GODs standard to believing it sincerly on the inside and keeping/desiring to do it

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

JESUS did the work and said that there is no more condemnation to those who believe in him(what he did at the cross).

THe bible says that
JESUS died for us and rose again

Well spoken!!

 

[just-me]

from post 322

I do not like to admit this? I DO ADMIT THIS.


Yep it is. I subjected myself to the law. It condemned me. I humbled myself and repented and agreed with God that because of the law. I am justly condemned. I also humbly repented and admited I have no hope. and that the death of a perfefct lamb (Christ) is ALL THAT can save me.

But as Paul said, Now that the law has done its job, I no longer need a schoolmaster.

That is why I have peace. GOD GAVE ME the peace which surpasses all understanding. Something you will never find subjecting yourself continually to the law.

You have indicate that you focus on the do not's. I say if we spend all our time doing the do's, we won't have time to do the don't's. Therefore, I see the law as a benefit, I am not condemned by it in the least. So why do we, as believers in Christ, put down the do's of the law if in fact the finite details of love are in the law? Should we not be teaching them rather than negating them by our rhetoric?

you have it backwards. I said focus on the do's not the do nots

can you reread, and then repost your question so I am sure I have it right.

Thanks

I thought you said if you focused on the law it was condemning to you. I take that as concentrating on the don't's. That's what the Pharisees did to Jesus. Don't do this and don't do that, and they were trying to condemn Him. didn't work though.

 

[chubbena]

No. Because you left out the first and last part of my post.

why would you do this?

Lets look at it again. in its complete form

Love your neighbor as yourself.

If I do this.

I do not need the words which say do not covet what your neighbor has, Do not bear false witness against your neighbor. Do not kill your neighbor. Do not fornicate with your neighbors daughter, or commit adultery with his wife. etc etc etc.

I just use the law of love, and those things would not even cross my mind. Because I LOVE My neighbor and am not thinking of self.

See what happens when you take things out of context. You distort what was actually said. And make a mockery of it

Because you said

Why is it so hard for you to admit, if I have love, I do not need the ten, for they are already covered? (PS there are far more than ten, and love covers them all.

You and I are clear what we are talking about so why are you saying I left out what you said? Does it make any difference in the conversation or do I have to include what you've said in every single post to be thorough?

The scripture never said if you love your neighbour as yourself you don't need the 10 commandments.

 

[chubbena]

GOD says if you love me keep my commandments and that goes for the old and new covenants,the problem is that in the old covenant,you are just using will-power with no help and in the new you have help.


A human being because the law of sin and death is warring against the inward man and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members(flesh) keeps me finding myself unable to stop sinning.

thats make me feel condemnation (guilty)

JESUS magnified the law from just doing it and saying you are keeping GODs standard to believing it sincerly on the inside and keeping/desiring to do it

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

JESUS did the work and said that there is no more condemnation to those who believe in him(what he did at the cross).

THe bible says that
JESUS died for us and rose again

It wasn't His fault in OT. It's the Israelites fault in general. The Holy Spirit was with them to help c.f. Isaiah 63:10. Not many obeyed wisely. The way was and is always narrow.

 

[chubbena]

Without the 10 commandments and go straightly to love in our own ways these would happen:
1. I love You but I also love others. If I'm busy make out with others it doesn't mean I don't love You. If You love me you would understand.
2. I love You so much when I make out with others I would imagine it's you.
3. I love You so much Your name is always on my lips even when I'm making out with others.
4. I love You so much You are always in my heart so we don't really need to spend time together.
But see what He said through Hosea.

 

[just-me]

It wasn't His fault in OT. It's the Israelites fault in general. The Holy Spirit was with them to help c.f. Isaiah 63:10. Not many obeyed wisely. The way was and is always narrow.

That's the entire point. So many, and I include myself in the past, that by what we say concerning the word that God told Moses, sounds as if God was wrong, and that He is OK with us negating certain parts of His word (the law being a substantial part) spoken. It is clear to me that if one dares say that they esteem all of Gods words as helpful, and include the law in our rhetoric, that somehow we are trying to teach works without faith or grace from above. That's the reason I started this thread. We really need to get out of the ditch, even if we don't think we are doing damage. Post 322 redtent put if very well. We all should pray for ourselves to not say or do anything to inadvertently negate the law or any part of God's word, and start by properly representing His character. If we degrade his law as no good because of His grace, we are disobeying this commandment, (quoted below) for His name is all of Him not just saying God D it or Jesus C with our mouth. We talk about loving God and then advocate that some of what He has said is no longer applicable? Give it a rest, for that's what the Sabbath is for.

Exodus 20:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.