What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

[just-me]

The law was beneficial to me BEFORE I came to Christ.

It has no benefit to me now. If I focus on the law. I will (as grandpa rightly said) do nothing but praise myself for being a good little Christian (which would be an outright lie) Not be focused on doing the things God wants me to do (serve others) or give up trying to work so hard. Because I realise the truth. I just can;t keep the law, And that is required by God. so why bother.

I have done all three of these things, And seen so many other people do these things in my 20 years at a legalistic church. No growth No life. No happiness. Just fear (people were so afraid to even admit their struggles. afrad they would get judged which they would in that church)

Sorry, I must side with Grandpa on this one. I have experienced being under subjection to the law. There is no life in that. And I will never go back to that again.

So after your salvation there are parts of God's word that no longer apply to you in your life. Sorry to hear that. We have come to an impasse, and will not agree at this point. You are welcome to pray that I negate some of God's word as you do, but I don't think that will work for me. What the people did to you at the church you mentioned I wouldn't agree with either. They will pay. Like I said, being under the law is not subject to it.

under the law 5259=5259. hupo hoop-o' a primary preposition; under, i.e. (with the genitive case) of place (beneath), or with verbs (the agency or means, through); (with the accusative case) of place (whither (underneath) or where (below) or time (when (at)):--among, by, from, in, of, under, with. In the comparative, it retains the same general applications, especially of inferior position or condition, and specially, covertly or moderately.

under the law of Christ 1772=1772. ennomos en'-nom-os from 1722 and 3551; (subjectively) legal, or (objectively) subject to:--lawful, under law.

subject to the law 5293=5293. hupotasso hoop-ot-as'-so from 5259 and 5021; to subordinate; reflexively, to obey:--be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.

I submit to the law of God because I am a believer, and in so doing I am under the law of Christ. Before that I was beneath the law of both. I am raise up through Christ.

Luke 7:22-23 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

 

[RedTent]

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
[SUP]6[/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

The letter of the law kills. But the Spirit gives Life.

So let's go back to the fruit of the Spirit, again. I think we will be going back to this alot...

Which of the fruits of the Spirit will cause a person to break your instructions for living? Even baby christians. How will the fruit of the Spirit cause anyone to stumble at living?

I'm not against the law. The law has its purpose. Its just not for the Christian after Salvation. It is for bringing people to the knowledge of their sin and their need for a Saviour. Once a person is free from the yoke of bondage it is important that they not be entangled again.

God will bring His People to Salvation. There must be a time in a Christians life when they find out that they are no longer under the law. There must be a time when a Christian trusts in Christ more than they trust in themselves and their work at the law.

The fruits of the spirit is telling us what a life in Christ brings about, it not a cause of anything. Making it a cause is adding human reasoning to scripture, we are to accept scripture not subject it to our reasonings.

It is true that if someone is interested enough in the Lord, the law can point out his need for God, but the law isn't designed to help the unsaved. It is given for the saved to guide him with love, Love that God gives us as a parent helps his child to grow, and telling us how to express love. It is to be within the family of God, not for outsiders.

I am sure that scripture's meaning of under law and your meaning of under law is absolute opposites. Trusting in Christ has absolutely nothing to do with law if you belong to Christ. Putting them together is for atheist to do, not Christians, with there "I don't need God, I am a good person".

 

[just-me]

It is true that it is impossible for the carnal mind to be submissive or subject to the law of God. Not my words, but these are. I am not going to try to make the law subject to my liking. There is hell to pay if I even try.

Romans 8:3-8 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So after your salvation there are parts of God's word that no longer apply to you in your life. Sorry to hear that. We have come to an impasse, and will not agree at this point. You are welcome to pray that I negate some of God's word as you do, but I don't think that will work for me. What the people did to you at the church you mentioned I wouldn't agree with either. They will pay. Like I said, being under the law is not subject to it.

under the law 5259=5259. hupo hoop-o' a primary preposition; under, i.e. (with the genitive case) of place (beneath), or with verbs (the agency or means, through); (with the accusative case) of place (whither (underneath) or where (below) or time (when (at)):--among, by, from, in, of, under, with. In the comparative, it retains the same general applications, especially of inferior position or condition, and specially, covertly or moderately.

under the law of Christ 1772=1772. ennomos en'-nom-os from 1722 and 3551; (subjectively) legal, or (objectively) subject to:--lawful, under law.

subject to the law 5293=5293. hupotasso hoop-ot-as'-so from 5259 and 5021; to subordinate; reflexively, to obey:--be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.

I submit to the law of God because I am a believer, and in so doing I am under the law of Christ. Before that I was beneath the law of both. I am raise up through Christ.

Luke 7:22-23 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 7:1 [ Freed from the Law ] Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?

Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 8:2-4 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Romans 13:8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.

Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

Galatians 3:5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?—

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

Galatians 3:11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”

Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),

Galatians 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.
Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Ephesians 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,

Philippians 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

1 Timothy 1:9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Hebrews 7:19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

Your right. We will never agree..

 

[peacefulbeliever]

And to carry on our conversation the physical temple made by hands is/was the shadow of the spiritual temple that we are, made by Christ. All that happened in the old temple is to be seen through the spiritual eyes He has given to us. Like the caul, or if you will, the gallbladder that stores the bile that comes from the liver, and aids in digestion, and the fat and kidneys. They all mean something spiritually because they are destroyed by fire like Jesus Christ baptizes with fire.

just-me,

You know that the verses I posted had nothing to do with the temple . . . we started speaking of "shadows" the last couple of post - and you want to keep bringing up the temple - what you are trying to say is the temple is incorrect.

Those verses I posted (#381) were all about the OT law; the one you keep trying to convince people that they are to be in subjection to - BTW - in "subjection" means UNDER. You say that you are not under the law but in subjection to it - it all has the same meaning. But if you read the scripture you can see how it has been "blotted out" (exaleipho - 2) to wipe off, wipe away A. to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out). The law "written and engraved in stones" - What was that? And it was abolished [2 Cor. 3:13) (katargeo - to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative A. to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency B. to deprive of force, influence, power 2) to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish A. to cease, to pass away, be done away B. to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from anyone) According to the definition of abolish - the law is deprived of force, influence and power . . . hmmmmm

 

[RedTent]

just-me,

You know that the verses I posted had nothing to do with the temple . . . we started speaking of "shadows" the last couple of post - and you want to keep bringing up the temple - what you are trying to say is the temple is incorrect.

Those verses I posted (#381) were all about the OT law; the one you keep trying to convince people that they are to be in subjection to - BTW - in "subjection" means UNDER. You say that you are not under the law but in subjection to it - it all has the same meaning. But if you read the scripture you can see how it has been "blotted out" (exaleipho - 2) to wipe off, wipe away A. to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out). The law "written and engraved in stones" - What was that? And it was abolished [2 Cor. 3:13) (katargeo - to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative A. to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency B. to deprive of force, influence, power 2) to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish A. to cease, to pass away, be done away B. to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from anyone) According to the definition of abolish - the law is deprived of force, influence and power . . . hmmmmm

All these scripture that are listed to prove that it is correct to wipe out all God's instructions to us about living in Christ and how to do it, then scripture cannot be depended on for truth, for Christ said it wasn't blotted out. Do you truly believe that Paul reported that God was opposed to the words of Christ? If what you say should be correct, who are you going to believe, Paul or Christ?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

All these scripture that are listed to prove that it is correct to wipe out all God's instructions to us about living in Christ and how to do it, then scripture cannot be depended on for truth, for Christ said it wasn't blotted out. Do you truly believe that Paul reported that God was opposed to the words of Christ? If what you say should be correct, who are you going to believe, Paul or Christ?

Scripture is our only guarantee for truth. ALL scripture is inspired by God - Jesus Christ said he did not come to destroy the law but to FULFILL - therefore he fulfilled the law and it was nailed to his cross. We have plenty of instructions in the New Testament to live by.

I believe that Paul wrote by the inspiration of God, and he said by inspiration of God "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us and took it out of the way nailing it to his cross. And he also wrote: Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. The law was good for the children of Israel and it was written for the children of Israel BUT Jesus Christ nailed it to his cross AFTER it had served it's purpose. I believe the scriptures are truth and Paul received his revelation from Jesus Christ. Galatians 1:11,12 But I certify you brethren that the gospel which was preached by me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Like I said - there is plenty of instruction for the church, the body of Christ in the church epistles -PLENTY!

 

[Least]

Really? I guess I misunderstood Jesus when he said in Matthew 22:37-40 which states....

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. THIS IS THE FIRST AND GREAT COMMANDMENT."

The second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

So many other verses witness to the two greatest commandment. If we don't know what God's word says, (the whole counsel,) then we are simply doing what's right in our own sight.

The first mention is actually contained in the law along with a "thou shalt not."

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Not according to our own ideas. God gives us HIS instruction in how to fulfil the royal law.

James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

1 John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
1 John 3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Everything that we do has to be according to HIS word. Otherwise, we are going to the right or the left. He gave us a road map...God sure has given us a lot of instruction and examples of what it means to love our neighbor as ourselves from beginning to end.

The new testament writers certainly understood the importance of this.

 

[just-me]

just-me,

You know that the verses I posted had nothing to do with the temple . . . we started speaking of "shadows" the last couple of post - and you want to keep bringing up the temple - what you are trying to say is the temple is incorrect.

Those verses I posted (#381) were all about the OT law; the one you keep trying to convince people that they are to be in subjection to - BTW - in "subjection" means UNDER. You say that you are not under the law but in subjection to it - it all has the same meaning. But if you read the scripture you can see how it has been "blotted out" (exaleipho - 2) to wipe off, wipe away A. to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out). The law "written and engraved in stones" - What was that? And it was abolished [2 Cor. 3:13) (katargeo - to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative A. to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency B. to deprive of force, influence, power 2) to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish A. to cease, to pass away, be done away B. to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from anyone) According to the definition of abolish - the law is deprived of force, influence and power . . . hmmmmm

I thought the conversation was about what had changed between the old and the new, and what was ready to vanish away. The physical was the shadow of things to come spiritually. I guess I misread what you meant. Are you saying that the temple was/is has little to do with the shadow?

 

[Grandpa]

The fruits of the spirit is telling us what a life in Christ brings about, it not a cause of anything. Making it a cause is adding human reasoning to scripture, we are to accept scripture not subject it to our reasonings.

It is true that if someone is interested enough in the Lord, the law can point out his need for God, but the law isn't designed to help the unsaved. It is given for the saved to guide him with love, Love that God gives us as a parent helps his child to grow, and telling us how to express love. It is to be within the family of God, not for outsiders.

I am sure that scripture's meaning of under law and your meaning of under law is absolute opposites. Trusting in Christ has absolutely nothing to do with law if you belong to Christ. Putting them together is for atheist to do, not Christians, with there "I don't need God, I am a good person".

You have mixed law with grace for so long that you don't know where one stops and the other begins.

The law is for the unsaved. It is for transgressors.

1 Timothy 1:9-11
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

The Law is not given for the saved. The Lord Jesus Christ gives the Holy Spirit to those who are saved. The Holy Spirit is what guides Christians in Love helping them grow.

Romans 10:4-11

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
[SUP]5[/SUP]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

[chubbena]

That's the entire point. So many, and I include myself in the past, that by what we say concerning the word that God told Moses, sounds as if God was wrong, and that He is OK with us negating certain parts of His word (the law being a substantial part) spoken. It is clear to me that if one dares say that they esteem all of Gods words as helpful, and include the law in our rhetoric, that somehow we are trying to teach works without faith or grace from above. That's the reason I started this thread. We really need to get out of the ditch, even if we don't think we are doing damage. Post 322 redtent put if very well. We all should pray for ourselves to not say or do anything to inadvertently negate the law or any part of God's word, and start by properly representing His character. If we degrade his law as no good because of His grace, we are disobeying this commandment, (quoted below) for His name is all of Him not just saying God D it or Jesus C with our mouth. We talk about loving God and then advocate that some of what He has said is no longer applicable? Give it a rest, for that's what the Sabbath is for.

Exodus 20:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Jeremiah 23:27 They think the dreams they tell one another will make my people forget my name, just as their ancestors forgot my name through Baal worship.
My name - The Septuagint and Arabic versions render it "my law".
Of course all these translations and understandings are rendered wrong when the Christian public in general are like Isaiah described in 30:10-11
They say to the seers, “See no more visions!” and to the prophets, “Give us no more visions of what is right! Tell us pleasant things, prophesy illusions. Leave this way, get off this path, and stop confronting us with the Holy One of Israel!”

 

[Grandpa]

All these scripture that are listed to prove that it is correct to wipe out all God's instructions to us about living in Christ and how to do it, then scripture cannot be depended on for truth, for Christ said it wasn't blotted out. Do you truly believe that Paul reported that God was opposed to the words of Christ? If what you say should be correct, who are you going to believe, Paul or Christ?

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

You are to be led by the Holy Spirit not by your carnal understanding of His Law.

 

[just-me]

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

You are to be led by the Holy Spirit not by your carnal understanding of His Law.

If a person leans on their own understanding by rejecting anything that God has ever said, this verse applies. It's all or nothing. You are right in saying we are to be lead by the Spirit and not the carnal understanding of the law. On the other hand, if we are lead by the spirit, we will understand the truth of the law, for the carnal mind doesn't understand that the the law is still in effect the way God organically intended. Think about this, if the law is for the unsaved to lead them to Christ, why did God's patriarchs like Moses, David, Joshua, Caleb, Hezekiah, Ezra, and Nehemiah live by it? They all had faith in God, and were subject to the law. It is clear they were not carnal in their belief.

 

[Grandpa]

Jeremiah 23:27 They think the dreams they tell one another will make my people forget my name, just as their ancestors forgot my name through Baal worship.
My name - The Septuagint and Arabic versions render it "my law".
Of course all these translations and understandings are rendered wrong when the Christian public in general are like Isaiah described in 30:10-11
They say to the seers, “See no more visions!” and to the prophets, “Give us no more visions of what is right! Tell us pleasant things, prophesy illusions. Leave this way, get off this path, and stop confronting us with the Holy One of Israel!”

1 Corinthians 4:20-21
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

You don't yet understand love and the spirit of meekness. All you know is the rod and your slavery. You are missing out on a big part of who the Lord Jesus Christ is.

That saying is right. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force him to drink.

Which of the fruits of the Spirit are offensive to the Law or to God???????

 

[john832]

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

You are to be led by the Holy Spirit not by your carnal understanding of His Law.

Instead of putting your own twist on it, what does God say?

Psa 119:1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
Psa 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
Psa 119:3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
Psa 119:4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
Psa 119:5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
Psa 119:6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.

Psa 119:7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
Psa 119:8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
Psa 119:9 BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.
Psa 119:10 With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.
Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
Psa 119:12 Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:13 With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth.

Gramps, I would suggest you read the entire 119th Psalm.

 

[Least]

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

You are to be led by the Holy Spirit not by your carnal understanding of His Law.

I love the book of Proverbs...

Leaning on our own understanding ties to not trusting God, and not trusting His word and instruction.

Proverbs 3:1 My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
Proverbs 3:2 For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.
Proverbs 3:3 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:
Proverbs 3:4 So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Proverbs 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Proverbs 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
Proverbs 3:8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.
Proverbs 3:9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:
Proverbs 3:10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.
Proverbs 3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
Proverbs 3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

 

[john832]

1 Corinthians 4:20-21
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

You don't yet understand love and the spirit of meekness. All you know is the rod and your slavery. You are missing out on a big part of who the Lord Jesus Christ is.

That saying is right. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force him to drink.

Which of the fruits of the Spirit are offensive to the Law or to God???????

Which of the Laws that came out of the mouth of Almighty God are offensive to Him?

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

 

[john832]

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

You are to be led by the Holy Spirit not by your carnal understanding of His Law.

Instead of putting your own twist on it, what does God say?

Psa 119:1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
Psa 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
Psa 119:3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
Psa 119:4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
Psa 119:5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
Psa 119:6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.

Psa 119:7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
Psa 119:8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
Psa 119:9 BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.
Psa 119:10 With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.
Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
Psa 119:12 Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:13 With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth.

Gramps, I would suggest you read the entire 119th Psalm.

Just for fun, let's throw in the 19th Psalm...

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

Which of the Laws that came out of the mouth of Almighty God are offensive to Him?

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The only question I ask is "WHAT LAW" is spiritual?

For example, before God made a man, "thou shalt not" could NOT have been law before that as there was no one to say these things to. There was something else in place long before this.

 

[john832]

The only question I ask is "WHAT LAW" is spiritual?

For example, before God made a man, "thou shalt not" could NOT have been law before that as there was no one to say these things to. There was something else in place long before this.

Uh, yes there was...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

God created an angelic realm LONG before God created Adam...

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

And guess what? God has been consistent forever in what is right and what is wrong. It was wrong to lie or kill who knows how long before Adam was created and it will be wrong to lie and kill forever out into the future.