Does the Bible teach Eternal Security

[NazariteNation]

To borrow a couple of scriptures from the other thread.... I think these two excerpts some it up rather well:

Hebrews 10:23-38 (NKJV)

<B>Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering,</B> for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

<B>For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.</B> Anyone who has rejected Moses law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

For we know Him who said,

 

[NazariteNation]

To borrow a couple of scriptures from the other thread.... I think these two excerpts some it up rather well:

Hebrews 10:23-38

<B>Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering,</B> for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

<B>For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.</B> Anyone who has rejected Moses law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

For we know Him who said,

My previous post should read like this...

To borrow a couple of scriptures from the other thread.... I think these two excerpts some it up rather well:

Hebrews 10:23-38 (NKJV)

Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

For if we sin willfully after we received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of Grace? For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again The LORD will judge His people.

But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

 

[1still_waters]

This was written to the Corinthians and we know how bad they were..

1 Corinthians 1:

8He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.

I don't think the promises of eternal security and the commands to keep in the faith are mutually exclusive.

We endure in the faith eternally, because he is powering and enabling us to do such.

Our faith began through his grace and mercy and it will endure because of it.

 

[NazariteNation]

My previous post should read like this...

To borrow a couple of scriptures from the other thread.... I think these two excerpts some it up rather well:

Hebrews 10:23-38 (NKJV)

Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

For if we sin willfully after we received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of Grace? For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again The LORD will judge His people.

But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

"For yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry. Now the just live by faith; But id anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him."

Now to back that sentiment up let's read Romans 3:23-26...

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (no where in the scripture does it say "future sin")

Come on guys, how much more clear can scripture be? While you guys seem to understand the grace of God, you seem to forget that Grace is only one aspect of God. You can't have accept the Grace of God and not accept the will of God, the judgment of God, or any other attribute of God's character. To do so is to create a God of your own design which is nothing short of Idolatry.

 

[1still_waters]

I don't see how Sanctification and this doctrine of 'Eternal Security" can co-exist. The way I see it, Sanctification speaks of crucifying the flesh while Eternal Security in a round about way uses scripture to justify sin.

Many said the same of Paul and his doctrine of grace, but he preached against sin with the best of them.

If you truly want the ability to carry out all those commands for sanctification, then eternal security is a must.


Only a God committed to your eternal security and sanctification can guarantee you any hopes of becoming sanctified. All our hopes on being sanctified rest on God's eternal commitment to us. We can't sanctify ourselves on our own effort. We can only succeed because God has eternally pledged to carry out his purpose of sanctification in us.

 

[1still_waters]

People who preach eternal security are not justifying living in sin. People who preach justification through grace are not justifying living in sin.

Every time a truth about God being the sole source of anything arises, whether it be our salvation or our eternal security, people will accuse you of denying human responsibility. But the funny thing is, we can't do our part, until God is doing His part in us.

 

[NazariteNation]

In my personal opinion, this doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved (ie. Eternal Security), according to the description that you all have given, cancels out any need for Sanctification or repentance for that matter. I'm sorry guys, no disrespect intend but, I can't in good faith buy into it scripturally. Not to mention all the folks out there who, both camps would likely agree are not saved according to the lifestyles that they lead, who are convinced that they are saved due to unrealistic notions they've created in their own minds after hearing this doctrine preached. No matter how much sugar you spinkle on it, the fruits of Eternal Security are visibly rotten.

 

[NazariteNation]

Many said the same of Paul and his doctrine of grace, but he preached against sin with the best of them.

If you truly want the ability to carry out all those commands for sanctification, then eternal security is a must.

I disagree. If I may...

If you truly want the ability to carry out all those commands for sanctification, then REPENTANCE is a must.

 

[1still_waters]

Naz I think you're hearing things from OSAS folks that they aren't saying.

OSAS folks agree with you. They say you MUST repent. They say you must live for God and be sanctified.

I think you're hearing OSAS saying something like...

"Since everyone is eternally secure, there is no need for sanctification."

No one who believes in eternal security will say you don't have to be sanctified. If they do teach that, then they're clearly missing the mark.

Like I said, this is much like how people treated Paul when he taught justification by grace through faith. They heard by grace and faith alone and thought it implied something it doesn't.

It's the same with eternal security. Eternal security does not imply no need for sanctification.

Many eternal security folks will say that if someone is looking to live in their sin without repenting, then they aren't truly saved or secure in the first place.

 

[1still_waters]

And you can't repent unless God has enabled you to repent in the first place...

John 15: 4Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine.5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

 

[twistedlinen]

And you can't repent unless God has enabled you to repent in the first place...

John 15: 4Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine.5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

I agree. and may I add..

Rom 3:10-12
There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."

 

[MahogonySnail]

re: John 15:4

Don't overlook the first part ..

"Remain in me, and I will remain in you"...

"If a man remains in me....."

And verse 6

"If a man abide not in me....."

 

[MahogonySnail]

re: Rom 3:10-12

Does not prove or say people are incapable of seeking God of their own will and decision. This is clearly seen if we read verse 2 of the Psalms where it says that God looks to see if any did seek God. God would not be looking for people to seek Him if it were not possible for them to do so...

Psa 14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

The purpose of Paul quoting this in Rom 3:10 is given in Rom 3:9

for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

 

[next_step]

Unfortunately I don't have the time. The root of your serious misunderstanding of the bible is that you do not discern. You don't make a difference between true possessors and those who just call themselves christians. You don't make a difference between Israel and the Church. You dont make a difference between the old and the new. You don't make a difference between people who only tasted the heavenly gift (hebrews 6) and those have the holy spirit and no longer they live but he lives inside of them.


I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory
Colossians 1:27

If you are a new creature you are changed forever.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Phil 2:13

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1. John 2:19

God wants proof and and probation and eventually you will see wether someone really belongs to him or not for he will do what is right and bring fruit. Because of the one who lives in him.



And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. 2. Peter 4


Anoother significant scripture:

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ.
Ephesians 4:13-15

THATS biblical! :
What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8


Anything else does not know what it means that the spirit is in us and we changed in everything. You claim the the enduring is a work but that is not biblical. As someone who is really born again, who owns eternal life (GOD exists beyond time and he sees you right in heaven and you are perfect before him) it is impossible to willingly reject Christ because this is not his nature.

 

[christiancanadian]

I personally believe that the teachings of Christ clearly speaks of the process of sanctification, presenting ourselves as a living sacrifice in order to conform to the image of Christ. Personally I don't see how Sanctification and this doctrine of 'Eternal Security" can co-exist. The way I see it, Sanctification speaks of crucifying the flesh while Eternal Security in a round about way uses scripture to justify sin.

I would much rather put my trust in the biblical teachings of Christ himself than some fairly recent denominational twist on the teachings of Paul.

Justification (getting saved) takes place BEFORE sanctification. How can you start the process of sanctification if your not justified before God? You can't. Also, the process of Sanctification is God helping us. It's not like we're alone during the sanctification process...which is a lifelong process by the way. In fact, we can't do it alone. It's the Holy Spirit in us and our walk with Jesus that keeps the process of sanctification moving along and not stopping!

 

[next_step]

When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. Acts 11:18

Make a difference between the repentence that leads to life and and the confessing in the relationship with the father, we find in 1.John. It was one and for all. Don't make repentence a work for it is not.

 

[MahogonySnail]

More scripturs on the possibility of turning or falling away for genuine , yes genuine christians..

2Pe 2:20 For if they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the full knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and are again entangled, they have been overcome by these, their last things are worse than the first.

2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have fully known the way of righteousness, than fully knowing it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.



Joh 6:66 From this time many of His disciples went back into the things behind, and walked no more with Him.

1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons,


Rom 11:20 Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear.

Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, fear lest He also may not spare you either!

Rom 11:22 Behold then the kindness, and the severity of God; on those having fallen, severity; but on you, kindness, if you continue in the kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.




Gal 5:4 you who are justified by Law are deprived of all effect from Christ; you fell from grace.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Some early church writings (sorry but the early church were not Calvinists)

Didache 16 [A.D. 70] "Watch for your life&#8217;s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord comes. But you shall assemble together often, seeking the things that are befitting to your souls: For the whole time of your faith will not profit you if you be not made complete in the last time."


Justin Martyr, Against Heresies 5:26 [A.D. 156] "Eternal fire was prepared for him who voluntarily departed from God and for all who, without repentance, persevere in apostasy."

 

[next_step]

Never he means born again true possesors and galatians does not speak about salvation and condemnation but about the curse and the liberation from the law. Awesome who people interpret romans 11. Simply not discerning.

 

[MahogonySnail]

And what would be the consequence for any who did not depend upon Christ for salvation but the law? Salvation? Are you saying a person is saved apart from God's grace and apart from Christ's effect? Can a person be saved if they keep the law? , if they are outside of God's grace?