Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[JGIG]

'to believe' is active and that is the work required from God.

If one is on his death bed, he is yet living. If he yet lived for years, is it to be assumed that there is no hope for him during all that time? How close to death does one have to be in order to be claimed as being to far gone for salvation?

O' that we might all receive the baptism which comes from the Christ.

P.S. if they confess and repent and do the work of God 'To Day', then that is their 'To Day' to obey what God has proclaimed as His work requirement.

Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor his ear too dull to hear. (from Is. 59)​

-JGIG

 

[Hoffco]

That's exactly my point. Without Jesus, works mean nothing. And with Jesus, works mean nothing, in regards to salvation. What they do mean, or the purpose behind them once having accepted Christ, is a reward when we, Christians, are judged on the mercy seat of Christ (Bema). Our rewards are at risk, not our salvation.

See how easy it is to understand SeaBass?

To BenFTW, SORRY, but you are at the other end of this blasphemous story. My book tittle is: THE CULT of FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANITY. The Bible churches of today have twisted the Bible so much; I refuse to call them the Church of Christ. Sixty yrs. ago, A.W.Tozer wrote, NONE DARE CALL IT HERESY. I think Packers book is: EVANGELISM and THE SOVEREIGNTY of GOD. Please, read them. A few authors are writing the same truth today. So many verses destroy this "faith only" salvation. Heb. 5:9 "And having been perfected, HE (Jesus) became the author eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him" ALL verses must be in context with the WHOLE BIBLE. The WHOLE BIBLE teaches three duties of man to be saved: 1. Repent of sin. 2. Trust in Jesus Christ as Savior. and 3. Obey Jesus as Lord. Love, Hoffco

 

[BenFTW]

It's the part I disagree with, good works are definitely related to salvation it's the sign for us to know who is saved and who is not (talking about live people haha) like I said in cases like those or the another list about someone lost in the sea... it's not necessary but in people who claim to be God's children, yes they have to show a change and the fruits of the spirit which is what shows to the world what Jesus can do , we are living testimonies , you should think about that and give more importance than what I can perceive your giving now.

Now, hear me out and listen to what you just said. If our salvation is at risk due to a lack of works, then according to your response(and what I put in bold) that means that any person who accepts Christ should seek to be in such scenarios if they value their salvation(or eternal security). In other words, it is in the best interest of every Christian to put themselves in a situation that they can't produce works, as it will allow them eternal security. At least, based upon this law or rule that you have just set by saying, for such people works are unnecessary. Do you see how silly such a works based salvation is?

You said that works are an evidence to those around us of whether or not they are saved. My problem with this understanding is that people assume those lacking works are not saved, when it could just be that they are a
"babe in Christ" and have yet to come to full fruition. Some people take longer to mature.

 

[cfultz3]

Yes, the act of believing is more than mental ascent; it is putting one's faith in something.

The labor in that is trusting His Work more than ours.

-JGIG

Indeed, it is more than just a mental conception. That which He asks of us is to put trust in Him as our Shepherd, to walk with Him in an unstubbornly manner, so as to learn His ways and do His will, as the exodus of the Hebrews teaches us.

These minute labors from us, which we call active faith, is our only labor required for salvation. Those works which are produced from this faith is our fruits we labor for as everlasting rewards.

Therefore, let none of us ever forget to watch over each other so that the heart of stubbornness which was found in those who fell in the wilderness will not be found in us. Hearken unto the Lord.........

 

[BenFTW]

To BenFTW, SORRY, but you are at the other end of this blasphemous story. My book tittle is: THE CULT of FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANITY. The Bible churches of today have twisted the Bible so much; I refuse to call them the Church of Christ. Sixty yrs. ago, A.W.Tozer wrote, NONE DARE CALL IT HERESY. I think Packers book is: EVANGELISM and THE SOVEREIGNTY of GOD. Please, read them. A few authors are writing the same truth today. So many verses destroy this "faith only" salvation. Heb. 5:9 "And having been perfected, HE (Jesus) became the author eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him" ALL verses must be in context with the WHOLE BIBLE. The WHOLE BIBLE teaches three duties of man to be saved: 1. Repent of sin. 2. Trust in Jesus Christ as Savior. and 3. Obey Jesus as Lord. Love, Hoffco

I am not preaching disobedience. I am just sharing the fact that our salvation is based upon what Christ has done and not what we do. Obedience is important, no doubt about it. But our salvation isn't reliant upon our works. We will have fruit, more importantly, Christ will have fruit through us, but our salvation isn't dependent upon our works, but on Christ's blood. What Jesus did on the cross. We are saved unto good works, some argue this is why we are saved at all. Though, not true, we are saved because God desired for us to be reconciled to Him, and in our reconciliation He works through us for more to be reconciled.

There is nothing blasphemous about what I've been saying. Even if it were, its taken away in Christ.
Matthew 12:31-32 - Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Just saying... lol

Lighten up Hoffco, grace isn't blasphemous.

 

[p_rehbein]

QUOTE FROM BENFTW:

You said that works are an evidence to those around us of whether or not they are saved. My problem with this understanding is that people assume those lacking works are not saved, when it could just be that they are a
"babe in Christ" and have yet to come to full fruition. Some people take longer to mature.

END QUOTE

Even new believers exhibit the fruit of their salvation (works). By being water baptized, by the "change" in their lives is also a huge witness/work that notifies the world and the Church that this person has become a disciple of Christ.

IF you believe works are necessary for salvation......please list the "works" you have done that are worthy of your salvation.
Which of them is more worthy for the forgiveness of your sins than the precious blood of Jesus Christ.

Let me know what these "works" were, shoot, may come in handy in the future........

 

[BenFTW]

QUOTE FROM BENFTW:

You said that works are an evidence to those around us of whether or not they are saved. My problem with this understanding is that people assume those lacking works are not saved, when it could just be that they are a
"babe in Christ" and have yet to come to full fruition. Some people take longer to mature.

END QUOTE

Even new believers exhibit the fruit of their salvation (works). By being water baptized, by the "change" in their lives is also a huge witness/work that notifies the world and the Church that this person has become a disciple of Christ.

IF you believe works are necessary for salvation......please list the "works" you have done that are worthy of your salvation.
Which of them is more worthy for the forgiveness of your sins than the precious blood of Jesus Christ.

Let me know what these "works" were, shoot, may come in handy in the future........

You do realize, I am one of the main people in this thread who has been arguing AGAINST works based salvation? lol

 

[hadaza]

Now, hear me out and listen to what you just said. If our salvation is at risk due to a lack of works, then according to your response(and what I put in bold) that means that any person who accepts Christ should seek to be in such scenarios if they value their salvation(or eternal security). In other words, it is in the best interest of every Christian to put themselves in a situation that they can't produce works, as it will allow them eternal security. At least, based upon this law or rule that you have just set by saying, for such people works are unnecessary. Do you see how silly such a works based salvation is?

You said that works are an evidence to those around us of whether or not they are saved. My problem with this understanding is that people assume those lacking works are not saved, when it could just be that they are a
"babe in Christ" and have yet to come to full fruition. Some people take longer to mature.

I can't make myself clear =( haha, look I'm not saying salvation is based on those evident good works, I'm saying a person who was born again shows something different, a change which is what Jesus does in our lifes, if a person claim to be a God's son or daughter but they live just the same as they were living before for the rest of their lifes than it's a lie from them. When I said are not necessary in those cases is because they are still saved even though they couldn't make it evident for people but God is who knows the hearts and if they did it sincerely they'll be in heaven. I agree some people expect from other people to show the same level of spiritual maturity but we should be able of seeing that change in baby christians in their own level , maybe not by knowing or practicing many things from the word, or being super wise but by showing that "first love" every person experience when they get saved and feel God's grace.

 

[p_rehbein]

You do realize, I am one of the main people in this thread who has been arguing AGAINST works based salvation? lol

Yeah, but those others get really upset with me when I ask them the same thing............thought you would come up with a list.........(and I've given you another chance to do so on your thread about "assurance of salvation."

(it's called back door theology........ )

WHAT HAVE I DONE TO DESERVE MY SALVATION?

Well, here is a list of my 5 most salvation worthy works........

1) ......................
2) ......................
3) ......................
4) ......................
5) ......................

 

[tucksma]

Close.

Faith results in works, it is not mixed with works.

Works are a fruit of our faith, not a requirement of our faith.

A subtle, yet important distinction.

Fruit is produced by the Spirit; we bear it. Anything apart from Him is dead works and is not of faith.


-JGIG

Faith without works is dead. So clearly Faith does "live" or "died" with works.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's the part I disagree with, good works are definitely related to salvation it's the sign for us to know who is saved and who is not (talking about live people haha) like I said in cases like those or the another list about someone lost in the sea... it's not necessary but in people who claim to be God's children, yes they have to show a change and the fruits of the spirit which is what shows to the world what Jesus can do , we are living testimonies , you should think about that and give more importance than what I can perceive your giving now.

This could be a false indication though.

Many people appear as Chritians on the outside with all their works. But are no more saved than an evil person who never did any good his whole life and never believed in Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To BenFTW, SORRY, but you are at the other end of this blasphemous story. My book tittle is: THE CULT of FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANITY. The Bible churches of today have twisted the Bible so much; I refuse to call them the Church of Christ. Sixty yrs. ago, A.W.Tozer wrote, NONE DARE CALL IT HERESY. I think Packers book is: EVANGELISM and THE SOVEREIGNTY of GOD. Please, read them. A few authors are writing the same truth today. So many verses destroy this "faith only" salvation. Heb. 5:9 "And having been perfected, HE (Jesus) became the author eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him" ALL verses must be in context with the WHOLE BIBLE. The WHOLE BIBLE teaches three duties of man to be saved: 1. Repent of sin. 2. Trust in Jesus Christ as Savior. and 3. Obey Jesus as Lord. Love, Hoffco

The sad thing is. Your lack of faith in Christ, and faith in your own works have been tried since the beginning of time, And thoroughly and scriptural. not from God

Those who trust in works must trust in self. And boast in self. God gets no credit.

 

[BenFTW]

This could be a false indication though.

Many people appear as Chritians on the outside with all their works. But are no more saved than an evil person who never did any good his whole life and never believed in Christ.

Not to mention their confidence is in their works and not Christ. For example, the people Christ said to depart from Him, because He never knew them. When defending themselves, they pointed to their works! WHAT!? What Christian points to their works as a means of salvation, we point to the cross! We point to Jesus and His finished work!

 

[p_rehbein]

Faith without works is dead. So clearly Faith does "live" or "died" with works.

Discernment is so very important.......................sigh................

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Faith without works is dead. So clearly Faith does "live" or "died" with works.

You have it backwards.

James is asking people to prove their faith. Not work for their faith.

A dead faith is no faith at all. And will be proven by no works.

A true faith will produce works.

the issue is not works. The issue is is their true faith or just mere belief

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not to mention their confidence is in their works and not Christ. For example, the people Christ said to depart from Him, because He never knew them. When defending themselves, they pointed to their works! WHAT!? What Christian points to their works as a means of salvation, we point to the cross! We point to Jesus and His finished work!

Yeah, Who can boast in self? No matter how many works I end up putting on my resume, (for example, I could rack up 100 works a day for the rest of my life) I will still be deserving of eternal condemnation.

 

[just-me]

Faith without works is dead. So clearly Faith does "live" or "died" with works.

The fruit of the spirit is works. this thread compares with

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...rks-determine-whether-you-go-heaven-hell.html

I think that one is better. LOL

 

[tucksma]

I am not preaching disobedience. I am just sharing the fact that our salvation is based upon what Christ has done and not what we do. Obedience is important, no doubt about it. But our salvation isn't reliant upon our works. We will have fruit, more importantly, Christ will have fruit through us, but our salvation isn't dependent upon our works, but on Christ's blood. What Jesus did on the cross. We are saved unto good works, some argue this is why we are saved at all. Though, not true, we are saved because God desired for us to be reconciled to Him, and in our reconciliation He works through us for more to be reconciled.

There is nothing blasphemous about what I've been saying. Even if it were, its taken away in Christ.
Matthew 12:31-32 - Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Just saying... lol

Lighten up Hoffco, grace isn't blasphemous.

Salvation is offered freely because of what Christ did. What we do shows if we accept it or not. Doing being both belief and works. You need works to be saved, but its not like a line of "your good!" "Nope not enough works". Its very individually based and Christ will judge. IF you believe yet do no works, then you have done nothing for God, you have bore no fruit, you have done nothing to represent Christ. No where in the bible does it say belief alone saves. There are sections that clearly say works alone do not save, but none say belief alone save or that works don't play part. Obedience to Christ is key to salvation which is key to works.

This doesn't mean if it is impossible for you to do works (death bed salvation) then you are doomed. Confessing your faith in itself is a work, but aside from that you did the best you could as your short time as the "new man".

Its not so much that works grant us salvation, or any specific kind or number, its that TRUE faith has works. Without it your faith is dead. And a dead faith is well...dead haha.

 

[p_rehbein]

Faith, n. 1. Confidence. 2. Religious belief. 3. Loyalty.

Faith’ ful, adj. 1. Loyal. 2. Having religious belief. 3. Copying accurately.
-----faith’ful-ly, adv.
-----faith’ful-ness, n.

Work, n, 1. Exertion; labor. 2. Task. 3. Employment. 4. Place of employment. 5. Materials on which one works. 6. Result of work. 7. (pl.) industrial plant. ---adj. 8. Of or for work.----v. 9) do work. 10) operate successfully. 11) move or give. 12) Solve. 13. Excite. 14. Ferment. Work’able, addj. ---- work’er, n.


Genesis 1:1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

(those who believe this must do so based on “faith.”)

Genesis 15:1) After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. 2) And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus? 3) And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. 4) And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 5) And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6) And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

(Abram believed ---had faith that God would do what He said He would do---, and God counted his belief/faith as righteousness to Abram)

From the Word of God concerning faith:

Deuteronomy 4:9-10/1 Samuel 12:16/2 Samuel 22:31/2 Samuel 24:10/ 2 Kings 6:16-17/2 Kings 13:14-19/1 Chronicles 19:13/2 Chronicles 15:2/2 Chronicles 32:10-15/Ezra 8:21-23/Job 1:22; 2:10; 13:15; 16:19; 19:25-26/Psalm 34:8; 57:2; 78:5-8; 115:13; 117:2; 118:5-9; 131:3; 145:13; 147:10-11/Proverbs 3:5-6; 22:4; 29:25/Nahum 1:7/Isaiah 7:9; 26:3/Daniel 3:16-17; 9:18/Hosea 10:5/Habakkuk 2:4/Zechariah 12:5/Matthew 8:2-4; 8:13; 9:18-25; 14:22-31; 15:21-28; 17:17; 17-20; 21:21-22/Mark 4:30-32; 2:15; 4:36-41; 6:4-6; 9:23-24; 10:13-16; 10:46-52; 11:24/Luke 7:1-10; 11:20; 17:5-6/ 22:31-38/John 4:50; 5:45; 11:25-26/Acts 6:5; 17:2-3/Romans 1:17(Galatians 3:11 and Hebrews 10:38); Romans 4:1-3; 4:20; 5:1-2; 8:24-25 (2 Corinthians 4:18) Romans 9:30-33 (Galatians 3:2-5 and James 2:17) Romans 10:17; 12:3; 14:23 (Hebrews 11:6); Romans 15:13/1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 3:18-23/2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Corinthians 5:1-7; 13:5/Galatians 3:6-9; 5:6/Ephesians 6:16/Colossians 1:15-23; 2:6-8/1[SUP]st[/SUP] Thessalonians 1:3/2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Thessalonians 1:4/1[SUP]st[/SUP] Timothy 1:19; 3:9; 6:12/2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Timothy 1:12/Titus 1:4/Hebrews 2:9; 4:1-3; 6:6; 11:1; 11:2-40/James 1:6/1[SUP]st[/SUP] Peter 1:5; 1:8-9/1[SUP]st[/SUP] John 5:4

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The fruit of the spirit is works. this thread compares with

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...rks-determine-whether-you-go-heaven-hell.html

I think the other one is better. LOL

lol. Yeah lets add our works and take credit.

Fruits of the spirit occure to those who have the spirit. As apposed to those who do not have the spirit.