Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[SeaBass]

Whatever work one does is but filthy rags and none are saved through works. We are saved by grace. Christ knows his sheep and calls them by name and none shall pluck one out of his hand. His sheep are of the House of Israel, who are out of Adam. Not all people are adamic. Those who are, were born Christian and shall never perish, for they were born in the celestial plane , where they will return. God's own household, His begotten sons and daughters.

Obedience to God is not filthy rags. If we substitute "filthy rags" for "obedience" we get:

Heb 5:9 "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that have filthy rags"


Rom 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the filthy rags of one shall many be made righteous.

Rom 6:16 "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of filthy rags unto righteousness?

Heb 5:8 "Though he were a Son, yet learned he filthy rags by the things which he suffered;"


Acts 10:35 those that work righteousness are accepted with God and not counted as filthy rags.

 

[SeaBass]

Its simple. Faith without works is dead. Faith is the mixing of belief AND works.

Hebrews 11:1 defines Faith.
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

How do we have evidence for the things not seen or have the substance for things hoped for? These two words, substance and evidence, are where works come in. Without works, you have no evidence or substance. You have a belief in your head. At the same time, without belief you are missing the whole thing that is to be hoped for, and the thing in which is not seen. Both belief and works play into faith. Without works faith is dead. Without belief, works are just good deeds. Works + Belief = Faith.

James point in James 2:18 without works, you cannot even prove you have faith.

 

[SeaBass]

Is salvation not offered to the living?

Salvation is offered to all, but only given to those that obey, Heb 5:9.

 

[cfultz3]

Salvation is offered to all, but only given to those that obey, Heb 5:9.

'to believe' is active.

 

[TheAristocat]

In order for one to become a Christian, he MUST faithfully obey God in doing works of believing, Jn 8;24; repentance, Lk 13:3,5 confession, Matt 10:32,33 and submit to baptism, Mk 16:16.


Then upon becoming a Christian and remaining saved, the Christian MUST maintain an obedient faith, Rev 2:10, keeping Christ works Rev 2:26, continue walking in the light so all his sin can continually be cleansed, 1 Jn 1:7 and do good works that God pre-ordained Christians to wallk in, Eph 2:10, Matt 25:32ff


It therefore is IMPOSSIBLE for a man to do nothing his entire life and yet still be saved. No verse says "do nothing" to become a Christian and "do nothing" to remain a faithful Christian.



A thought:

1 Tim 5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

If I had to go out and get a job to WORK in order to provide for those of my own house, else be a faithless infidel, does that secular WORK I am doing mean that I am trying to merit my salvation, ie, keep from being a lost, faithless infidel?

If eternal security were true, does that mean I do not have to work to provide for my house and can still be saved as a fatihless infidel?



So can anyone demonstrate how a man can never do ANY KIND of work his entire life yet still be saved?

And yet if Christ never died for us then no amount of faith or works would save us. I think that says it all. But what you say has reason. What we do and how we walk with God every day impacts our faith.

 

[SeaBass]

'to believe' is active.

NT belief is an action, a work as Jesus calls it in Jn 6:27-29.

 

[cfultz3]

NT belief is an action, a work as Jesus calls it in Jn 6:27-29.

What is the work of God? To believe in the One He sent.

Though they do not have works to survive the Fire, they did, nevertheless, do the work of God and believed in the One He sent. Who knows, one might just be on their death bed for years. Surely, there is hope for the living. Faith saves, but as you say and I agree, labor for the meat which REMAINS into everlasting life.

 

[SeaBass]

And yet if Christ never died for us then no amount of faith or works would save us. I think that says it all. But what you say has reason. What we do and how we walk with God every day impacts our faith.

The fact though is CHrist did die for every man Heb 2:9. Will every man be saved? No, Matt 7:13. So what is it that separates, differentiates those that will be saved from those that will be lost? Obedient works (or lack thereof). Many verses as Rom 2:6 show God's judgment is to render according to a man's deeds. So how anyone can say works have nothing to do with salvation when works have EVERYTHING to do with salvation?

 

[cfultz3]

NT belief is an action, a work as Jesus calls it in Jn 6:27-29.

I agree and the reason I said it is active

 

[SeaBass]

What is the work of God? To believe in the One He sent.

Though they do not have works to survive the Fire, they did, nevertheless, do the work of God and believed in the One He sent. Who knows, one might just be on their death bed for years. Surely, there is hope for the living. Faith saves, but as you say and I agree, labor for the meat which REMAINS into everlasting life.

Belief is not a mere mental assent of the mind it requires actions. Can one on his death-bed repent of his sins, Lk 13:3,5? Confess Christ, Mt 10:32,33? Submit to water baptism for remission of sin, Acts 2:38? Live a faithful CHristian life, Rev 2:10? Heb 3:13,15 TO DAY is the day for salvation and if one waits to late where they cannot obey (death-bed) then their procrastination is upon them.

(Many try to use a death-bed scenario to try and get around the necessity of water baptism)

 

[cfultz3]

Belief is not a mere mental assent of the mind it requires actions. Can one on his death-bed repent of his sins, Lk 13:3,5? Confess Christ, Mt 10:32,33? Submit to water baptism for remission of sin, Acts 2:38? Live a faithful CHristian life, Rev 2:10? Heb 3:13,15 TO DAY is the day for salvation and if one waits to late where they cannot obey (death-bed) then their procrastination is upon them.

(Many try to use a death-bed scenario to try and get around the necessity of water baptism)

'to believe' is active and that is the work required from God.

If one is on his death bed, he is yet living. If he yet lived for years, is it to be assumed that there is no hope for him during all that time? How close to death does one have to be in order to be claimed as being to far gone for salvation?

O' that we might all receive the baptism which comes from the Christ.

P.S. if they confess and repent and do the work of God 'To Day', then that is their 'To Day' to obey what God has proclaimed as His work requirement.

 

[TheAristocat]

The fact though is CHrist did die for every man Heb 2:9. Will every man be saved? No, Matt 7:13. So what is it that separates, differentiates those that will be saved from those that will be lost? Obedient works (or lack thereof). Many verses as Rom 2:6 show God's judgment is to render according to a man's deeds. So how anyone can say works have nothing to do with salvation when works have EVERYTHING to do with salvation?

God does render judgment according to a man's deeds, but that's not to say that Christ died for nothing and we must still perform works because Christ's weren't enough for us. I think that misses the point. There are different levels of gifts in the Paradise to come, and those are indeed based on our works in this life. And I believe there are different levels of punishment in the damnation to come. But those who have faith in Christ will see that eternal life to come. Whether or not they do a lot of good deeds, save a lot of people, etc. determines what gifts they receive in that life. If they absolutely have no good deeds it will certainly influence their faith. But as to what level of good deeds one needs to achieve grace or to keep it - I don't think the Gospel was about that. But, again, the closer you are in your walk with God the closer you are to the Author of truth and the firmer you stand in your faith.

 

[Apostol2013]

As we are dead to our own works baptized into his death to re emerge into his life and then given the baptism of redemtion that we are reborn into the spirit through the regeneration of the spirit renewinh our minds our spirit in comformity of his likeness to life.

 

[Camarasaurus]

Not sure if anyone brought this up, but the man on the cross next to Jesus was saved, and he spent the rest of his life as a "believer" [the title "christian" wasn't invented yet] but due to circumstances out of his control he didn't get to do much in the way of "works". He was obviously saved, because Jesus said he was. See Luke 23:39-43. So your statements of "In order for one to become a Christian, he MUST faithfully obey God in doing works of believing" and "It therefore is IMPOSSIBLE for a man to do nothing his entire life and yet still be saved", appear to be moot.

 

[JGIG]

It reminds me of Paul. WHo considered all his hard work (being stoned, left for dead, Shipwrecked, Jailed, Beaten, Not to mention his "Thorn in the flesh" as a momentary light affliction.

Paul found the rest of God And Gods work because no work at all.

Gods rest is not living any way we desire, that is not rest, Our way of living does not satisfy our inner Need, Only God can do this

Gods rest is not the law. The law brings condemnation, Conviction and judgment.

Gods rest is having a faith in God that whatever God wants us to do. No matter how hard, how painful, or how much it makes the world hate us. God is the one doing the work. And our lives are so short in the grand cheme of things (eternity) that any suffering we do do for God is worth it, No matter how painful it may be

10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. (from 1 Cor. 15)
​

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

But JGIG, can you provide a scripture that says all that is required is to receive Christ? God is the one who put conditions on our salvation, not SeaBass. See Acts 2:38, Rom. 10:9-10, Luke 13:3, for example.

28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” (from John 6)

​

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

How about the verse to every tree that bares not good fruit is hewn and cast into the everlasting fire

And now for some context and obvious issues with applying the above phrase to those in Christ:

And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. (from Mt. 3)​

Are believers trees?

No.

Are believers grafted into the Root of the Tree of Life, Who is Christ? (Rom. 11, Rev. 22)

Yes.

Will the Tree of Life ever be subjected to the above?

No.



-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

Its simple. Faith without works is dead. Faith is the mixing of belief AND works.

Hebrews 11:1 defines Faith.
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

How do we have evidence for the things not seen or have the substance for things hoped for? These two words, substance and evidence, are where works come in. Without works, you have no evidence or substance. You have a belief in your head. At the same time, without belief you are missing the whole thing that is to be hoped for, and the thing in which is not seen. Both belief and works play into faith. Without works faith is dead. Without belief, works are just good deeds. Works + Belief = Faith.

Close.

Faith results in works, it is not mixed with works.

Works are a fruit of our faith, not a requirement of our faith.

A subtle, yet important distinction.

Fruit is produced by the Spirit; we bear it. Anything apart from Him is dead works and is not of faith.


-JGIG

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Christ's NT gospel does not teach "death bed salvation".

it does not teach work to earn salvation either.

a licentious gospel is no more real than a legalistic one based on our own righteous deeds

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Heb 4:11 "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."


There is a rest for those that labour, not for those who do not labour.

thats a poor interpretation.

The labor was to enter into rest (it is hard work to enter rest) Not to do a bunch of Good deeds, and by it enter rest.