Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[cfultz3]

Yeah, but those others get really upset with me when I ask them the same thing............thought you would come up with a list.........(and I've given you another chance to do so on your thread about "assurance of salvation."

(it's called back door theology........ )

WHAT HAVE I DONE TO DESERVE MY SALVATION?

Well, here is a list of my 5 most salvation worthy works........

1) ......................
2) ......................
3) ......................
4) ......................
5) ......................

I have done nothing to deserve salvation and it would be foolish of me to list things which makes me think I am deserving.

I would like to change the question to:

WHAT HAVE I DONE TO RECEIVE SALVATION?

1) I believed the Lord concerning the Gospel of His Son. PERIOD.

2) I follow Him as my Shepherd, in Him will I trust.

3) I hearken to Him as my Lord, the Master of my soul.

4) I walk the path Jehovah sets, for He alone knows the righteous path.

5) They who trust Him do enter into His Rest.

BELIEVE, more than just a concept.

 

[hadaza]

This could be a false indication though.

Many people appear as Chritians on the outside with all their works. But are no more saved than an evil person who never did any good his whole life and never believed in Christ.

this might be true, still the true christians demostrate faith by works, it says we'll know them by their fruits.

James 2:17 and 18 "In the same way , faith by itself, if is not accompained by action, is dead. But someone will say, you have faith; I have deeds. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you mi faith by what I do"

 

[BenFTW]

I have done nothing to deserve salvation and it would be foolish of me to list things which makes me think I am deserving.

I would like to change the question to:

WHAT HAVE I DONE TO RECEIVE SALVATION?

1) I believed the Lord concerning the Gospel of His Son. PERIOD.

2) I follow Him as my Shepherd, in Him will I trust.

3) I hearken to Him as my Lord, the Master of my soul.

4) I walk the path Jehovah sets, for He alone knows the righteous path.

5) They who trust Him do enter into His Rest.

BELIEVE, more than just a concept.

You've done nothing to receive salvation(in the sense of merit). It is unearned. The equivalent is what I'm about to quote from a site.

Suppose someone anonymously sent me a check for $1,000,000. The money is mine if I want it, but I still must endorse the check. In no way can signing my name be considered earning the million dollars—the endorsement is a non-work. I can never boast about becoming a millionaire through sheer effort or my own business savvy. No, the million dollars was simply a gift, and signing my name was the only way to receive it. Similarly, exercising faith is the only way to receive the generous gift of God, and faith cannot be considered a work worthy of the gift.

Just thought you might find that analogy interesting.

 

[p_rehbein]

this might be true, still the true christians demostrate faith by works, it says we'll know them by their fruits.

James 2:17 and 18 "In the same way , faith by itself, if is not accompained by action, is dead. But someone will say, you have faith; I have deeds. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you mi faith by what I do"

I have always agreed that "good works" are the duty of a Christian.............where the contention comes in is when folks claim it's necessary for salvation.........That is simply untrue. They are confusing salvation with sanctification..........when a believer receives the "indwelling presence" of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit works through them/enables them to do "good works" which accomplish God's plan for that believers life.

 

[tucksma]

Faith, n. 1. Confidence. 2. Religious belief. 3. Loyalty.

Faith’ ful, adj. 1. Loyal. 2. Having religious belief. 3. Copying accurately.
-----faith’ful-ly, adv.
-----faith’ful-ness, n.

Work, n, 1. Exertion; labor. 2. Task. 3. Employment. 4. Place of employment. 5. Materials on which one works. 6. Result of work. 7. (pl.) industrial plant. ---adj. 8. Of or for work.----v. 9) do work. 10) operate successfully. 11) move or give. 12) Solve. 13. Excite. 14. Ferment. Work’able, addj. ---- work’er, n.


Genesis 1:1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

(those who believe this must do so based on “faith.”)

Genesis 15:1) After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. 2) And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus? 3) And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. 4) And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 5) And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6) And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

(Abram believed ---had faith that God would do what He said He would do---, and God counted his belief/faith as righteousness to Abram)

From the Word of God concerning faith:

Deuteronomy 4:9-10/1 Samuel 12:16/2 Samuel 22:31/2 Samuel 24:10/ 2 Kings 6:16-17/2 Kings 13:14-19/1 Chronicles 19:13/2 Chronicles 15:2/2 Chronicles 32:10-15/Ezra 8:21-23/Job 1:22; 2:10; 13:15; 16:19; 19:25-26/Psalm 34:8; 57:2; 78:5-8; 115:13; 117:2; 118:5-9; 131:3; 145:13; 147:10-11/Proverbs 3:5-6; 22:4; 29:25/Nahum 1:7/Isaiah 7:9; 26:3/Daniel 3:16-17; 9:18/Hosea 10:5/Habakkuk 2:4/Zechariah 12:5/Matthew 8:2-4; 8:13; 9:18-25; 14:22-31; 15:21-28; 17:17; 17-20; 21:21-22/Mark 4:30-32; 2:15; 4:36-41; 6:4-6; 9:23-24; 10:13-16; 10:46-52; 11:24/Luke 7:1-10; 11:20; 17:5-6/ 22:31-38/John 4:50; 5:45; 11:25-26/Acts 6:5; 17:2-3/Romans 1:17(Galatians 3:11 and Hebrews 10:38); Romans 4:1-3; 4:20; 5:1-2; 8:24-25 (2 Corinthians 4:18) Romans 9:30-33 (Galatians 3:2-5 and James 2:17) Romans 10:17; 12:3; 14:23 (Hebrews 11:6); Romans 15:13/1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 3:18-23/2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Corinthians 5:1-7; 13:5/Galatians 3:6-9; 5:6/Ephesians 6:16/Colossians 1:15-23; 2:6-8/1[SUP]st[/SUP] Thessalonians 1:3/2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Thessalonians 1:4/1[SUP]st[/SUP] Timothy 1:19; 3:9; 6:12/2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Timothy 1:12/Titus 1:4/Hebrews 2:9; 4:1-3; 6:6; 11:1; 11:2-40/James 1:6/1[SUP]st[/SUP] Peter 1:5; 1:8-9/1[SUP]st[/SUP] John 5:4

Faith is loyalty. Disobedience is not loyal. Obedience is loyal. Jesus calls for us to do works.

If you look up when Jesus talks about faith often times its saying someone has faith because of something they had done.

I'm not saying works are like working at a food shelter or things like that. Those are works, but so are acts of belief. Example In Matt 15 when Jesus says the woman has great faith its because she relies on him entirely. That is a work. She actually did something. Had substance and evidence for her faith as Hebrews 11:1 states.

Faith requires works. But works aren't just charitable things.

 

[tucksma]

I have always agreed that "good works" are the duty of a Christian.............where the contention comes in is when folks claim it's necessary for salvation.........That is simply untrue. They are confusing salvation with sanctification..........when a believer receives the "indwelling presence" of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit works through them/enables them to do "good works" which accomplish God's plan for that believers life.

SO you are saying that Jesus will judge someone with a dead faith as righteous?

 

[p_rehbein]

Faith is loyalty. Disobedience is not loyal. Obedience is loyal. Jesus calls for us to do works.

If you look up when Jesus talks about faith often times its saying someone has faith because of something they had done.

I'm not saying works are like working at a food shelter or things like that. Those are works, but so are acts of belief. Example In Matt 15 when Jesus says the woman has great faith its because she relies on him entirely. That is a work. She actually did something. Had substance and evidence for her faith as Hebrews 11:1 states.

Faith requires works. But works aren't just charitable things.

This is the ARGUMENT "works based" folks always turn to in the end.............they try to convince folks that "BELIEVING" is a work............sigh...........no, it isn't...............neither is Faith..............Faith is hand in hand with belief..........

goodness, what a weak argument.................God/the Holy Spirit does the WORK, Jesus Christ did the WORK to assure us of our salvation, all we have to do is believe/have faith............AND THAT IS NOT A WORK!



goodness...........

 

[eternally-gratefull]

SO you are saying that Jesus will judge someone with a dead faith as righteous?

No. We are saying a person with a dead (non existant) faith (otherwise known as mere belief) Will not be saved, Have never been saved, and if they do not repent, and come to true faith. The only time they see God will be to try to make it on their works. Before he judges them eternally

 

[p_rehbein]

SO you are saying that Jesus will judge someone with a dead faith as righteous?

So, now you are "word twisting?"

.............sigh..........

Either that, or you are yet to experience Sanctification............dunno.................

 

[hadaza]

I have always agreed that "good works" are the duty of a Christian.............where the contention comes in is when folks claim it's necessary for salvation.........That is simply untrue. They are confusing salvation with sanctification..........when a believer receives the "indwelling presence" of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit works through them/enables them to do "good works" which accomplish God's plan for that believers life.

I agree, and I get what you say, santification comes after salvation and santification is possible not for us but for Holy spirit working within us

 

[cfultz3]

You've done nothing to receive salvation(in the sense of merit). It is unearned. The equivalent is what I'm about to quote from a site.

Suppose someone anonymously sent me a check for $1,000,000. The money is mine if I want it, but I still must endorse the check. In no way can signing my name be considered earning the million dollars—the endorsement is a non-work. I can never boast about becoming a millionaire through sheer effort or my own business savvy. No, the million dollars was simply a gift, and signing my name was the only way to receive it. Similarly, exercising faith is the only way to receive the generous gift of God, and faith cannot be considered a work worthy of the gift.

Just thought you might find that analogy interesting.

WELL YES, that is why I said I did nothing deserving (meritorious) for my salvation. Thanks.......

 

[tucksma]

No. We are saying a person with a dead (non existant) faith (otherwise known as mere belief) Will not be saved, Have never been saved, and if they do not repent, and come to true faith. The only time they see God will be to try to make it on their works. Before he judges them eternally

So then you are saying works are needed for salvation. Someone can believe in Jesus and God, yet do no works. I did that for the first 16 years of my life. It was only after I was shown some powerful scriptures (like James 2: 17-18) did I realize you need works to be saved.

You just confirmed this actually. The person doesn't have works, so his faith is dead, and you just stated that because of this, this person isn't saved nor has ever been. You just proved my point.

 

[p_rehbein]

I agree, and I get what you say, santification comes after salvation and santification is possible not for us but for Holy spirit working within us

I wish everyone did.............sigh...........(sooner or later I'm gonna have to do a post on Sanctification, but it's about 5 pages long, and will take forever to read.......and Crossnote will "un-friend" me."



Works based believers do not understand the difference between salvation and sanctification...........

 

[tucksma]

So, now you are "word twisting?"

.............sigh..........

Either that, or you are yet to experience Sanctification............dunno.................

No I'm not word twisting. I'm asking a simple question. I understood the rest of your post, I'm making a new point. You are saying that all is needed is belief. Well James states that if you have no works your faith is dead. So in that case the man with belief, no works, and a dead faith, will be saved.

 

[p_rehbein]

So then you are saying works are needed for salvation. Someone can believe in Jesus and God, yet do no works. I did that for the first 16 years of my life. It was only after I was shown some powerful scriptures (like James 2: 17-18) did I realize you need works to be saved.

You just confirmed this actually. The person doesn't have works, so his faith is dead, and you just stated that because of this, this person isn't saved nor has ever been. You just proved my point.

Word twisting........what a sad way to promote such an ideology............sigh.......

Every believer exhibits good works..............and the Holy Spirit enables them to do so.........Works are NOT NEEDED for salvation..............that is Biblical Truth.................get over it.............or, get off your computer and get out there AND START WORKING to earn your salvation!

 

[p_rehbein]

No I'm not word twisting. I'm asking a simple question. I understood the rest of your post, I'm making a new point. You are saying that all is needed is belief. Well James states that if you have no works your faith is dead. So in that case the man with belief, no works, and a dead faith, will be saved.

And when you read James in context with ALL of Scripture concerning works, you will begin to understand what James was speaking of and why...........hang in there, but don't play word games......please...........

SALVATION................................................................SANCTIFICATION

.......................(.........please fill this space....)

 

[cfultz3]

You've done nothing to receive salvation(in the sense of merit). It is unearned. The equivalent is what I'm about to quote from a site.

If you would:

WHAT HAVE I DONE TO RECEIVE SALVATION?

1) I believed the Lord concerning the Gospel of His Son. PERIOD.

2) I follow Him as my Shepherd, in Him will I trust.

3) I hearken to Him as my Lord, the Master of my soul.

4) I walk the path Jehovah sets, for He alone knows the righteous path.

5) They who trust Him do enter into His Rest.

BELIEVE, more than just a concept.
​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So then you are saying works are needed for salvation. Someone can believe in Jesus and God, yet do no works. I did that for the first 16 years of my life. It was only after I was shown some powerful scriptures (like James 2: 17-18) did I realize you need works to be saved.

No. I am not saying works are needed.

And belief will save no one. That is why you did no works. You just believed, You had no faith (it was dead)

Belief will not produce works. Only Faith will.

You just confirmed this actually. The person doesn't have works, so his faith is dead, and you just stated that because of this, this person isn't saved nor has ever been. You just proved my point.

Proved what point?

How can a person who was never saved lose salvation?

 

[p_rehbein]

If you would:

WHAT HAVE I DONE TO RECEIVE SALVATION?

1) I believed the Lord concerning the Gospel of His Son. PERIOD.

2) I follow Him as my Shepherd, in Him will I trust.

3) I hearken to Him as my Lord, the Master of my soul.

4) I walk the path Jehovah sets, for He alone knows the righteous path.

5) They who trust Him do enter into His Rest.

BELIEVE, more than just a concept.
​

With the possible exception of #1, the rest of these "follow" salvation do they not?

(just saying...........and belief isn't a work.........)

 

[hadaza]

So then you are saying works are needed for salvation. Someone can believe in Jesus and God, yet do no works. I did that for the first 16 years of my life. It was only after I was shown some powerful scriptures (like James 2: 17-18) did I realize you need works to be saved.

You just confirmed this actually. The person doesn't have works, so his faith is dead, and you just stated that because of this, this person isn't saved nor has ever been. You just proved my point.

this is endless, NO, GOOD WORKS ARE NOT REQUIREMENTS ARE A RESULT, those verses in James are saying if you say you were born again and you don't show any works, then you never were born again. Yes a person can believe God exists or Jesus , most of the people "believe" but most of them haven't repented and received Jesus in their hearts , after this happen they show some fruit at some level since they are baby christians as we go through this journey with God he teaches more and more so we should be showing more of his wisdom though I know some people stand in a place and are not very interested in growing in faith but still they can't live like another person of this world, we are light!