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Hoffco
Guest
eternal, you just shot from the hip, and blow you foot off. LOL, Love to all Hoffco
Salvation Not Possible Without Works
- Thread starter SeaBass
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
do you even know what the word means?
What don;t you figure out what the word means, then we can discuss it.
Acts 10. They were baptized by God THEN in water,
Again, if you want to replace the baptism of God with a baptism of men. Feel free.. Good luck.
show me, Peter said repent and be baptized, show me where they were saved by belief.
Now I cannot figure out what verse you're talking about. if its Mark 16:16, it is simple logic, I can help you with the truth table if you wish.
This is why I did not address everything you wrote, because statements like this are not worth responding to
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
lol. Belief is in the word believe and RECEIVED HIS WORD.
Are you going to sit here and tell me that those who received his word did not believe? And those who did not repent believed??
lol.. Ok.
should I show yuo all the children of God who got killed by poison or who got bit by a snake? According to mark 16 this should not happen Because a sign of those who get saved would not die from these things.
lol. SO the truth hurts?
Your basing your whole argument on one verse. What else should I say
the house of Cornelius were baptized with the Holy Spirit by Christ, this did not save them, then they were baptized in water :
Acts 10:48 (NKJV)
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
they were baptized "in the name of the Lord" not "by the Lord", meaning it is the same saving baptism that all disciples can do "in the name of the Lord".
There is only one baptism that saves us, it is water, it is done by disciples, it is mentioned here :
Ephesians 4:5 (NKJV)
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
how many baptisms do you think there are?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
lol. You just lost any possible hope of being a teacher of God.
So the baptism done by God himself did not save them. But the one done by the hands of men did..
How many?
John spoke of a baptism of the HS and a Baptism of fire.. He also conducted a baptism of water, But said Jesus baptism (f the HS) would be what mattered.
Jesus spoke of making disciples and baptise them (they were already disciples. this saved) in water.
Jesus spoke of baptism of the HS. Peter not only recieved it but witnessed it. He also baptised in water.
So which baptism saves? The one by God? Or the one by men??
Again, do you know what the word even means?
"Peter says the people were baptised into moses. (yet another baptism) do you understand what this means?
If I give you a bible, you have received His word, if you do not read it, how can you believe it?
If you believe it, how can you not obey it?
If you believe it, and obey it, how can you do that without "doing" the righteous works required to "obey" (note all the verbs?)
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
That not what it means.
To recieve means you have accepted it. Everyone there heard the word. Not everyone recieved it. Do you always try to twist things this way? are you that afraid of listening to what to people say you have to make up stuff?
As for the word recieve..
31.52 ἀποδέχομαιb; ἀποδοχή, ῆς f; παραδέχομαιa: to come to believe something to be true and to respond accordingly, with some emphasis upon the source—‘to accept, to receive, acceptance, reception.’
Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains. New York: United Bible Societies.
lol. they did obey it. That is what saved them Then they also followed the first command. They allowed themselves to be baptised.
What righteous work?
It is the WORK OF GOD that we believe in the one he sent.
It is his righteous work. Not ours. Our works follow salvation. they do not get us saved.
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cfultz3
Guest
This would seem to be true about Acts 10. They were baptized with the Spirit before they were baptized in water.
Somewhere else, does it mention that some were water baptized before receiving the baptism of the Spirit?
Point I am trying to make, if both instances are indeed true, then, we need to see what is being said.
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MsLimpet
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I am?? How?
James wrote his book so we can test our faith.
if we claim we have faith, but do not show the works that a truth faith WILL DO. then is our faith real??
I am not ommiting it. It does not contradict what I said, I am talking about how one gets saved, not how they will act after they are saved. which james is speaking of.
which actually, if you read my hole post you would have seen this.. as I said...
t is his righteous work. Not ours. Our works follow salvation. they do not get us saved.
Notice what you quoted from Louw & Nida "to come to believe something to be true and to respond.
How do you respond, respond is a work, you must hear the word and obey it <-- righteous work
In water.
If you do not accept his Grace by the righteous work of obedience, (hear, believe, repent, confess, and be baptized) you cannot be saved.
Your not saved until you are water baptized (Mark 16:16)
Mark 16:16 (NKJV)
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Baptism is a righteous work.
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MsLimpet
Guest
I can commit as many sins as I want and not go to hell, because if I can't go to heaven by my works then I can't go to hell by my works?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Why do yuo people continue to use this excuse? DO you think everyone who teaches faigth alone thinks we can go on and live anyway we want?
John 2: [SUP]3 [/SUP]Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. [SUP]4 [/SUP]He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him
Don't you understand the people you talk about are liars and there is no truth in them. But those who are truly saved keep Gods commands??
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. [SUP]21 [/SUP]I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
So those who truly have been anointed by God do not know truth? And would risk living in sin?? says who??
1 John 3
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known
Him.
Are not these the people your talking about?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
Again I ask you. How can someone who is truely saved act as you said? God said they can not. So what is your argument?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Enough of this nonsence.
You do not make a doctrine on one verse.
Go work your way to heaven and earn your gift by being baptized. And do not say it is not a work. The people who were circumcized did not do anything but lay there and let some man cut them. It was called a work.. Just like WATER baptism is.
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MsLimpet
Guest
According to you if you cannot go to heaven or hell by works then how do you get to heaven?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I did that when I repented.
Next?
Yep.
BECAUSE THEY WERE SAVED
lol..
Romans 4:4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
Cant be both!!
2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
Your argument is with God not me
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I did not say that.
You will get to hell by your works.
we are saved by grace. Undeserved favor. Or mercy. Not by works.
Whos work can save you? Yours or Gods?
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MsLimpet
Guest
The gospel says you must be baptized to be saved. Not through grace alone.
Mark 16:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
That is, he that believeth the gospel. (Verse 15.) It was to be preached in order that it might be believed. He that credits it to be true, and acts accordingly.
and is baptized, The preaching of the gospel imposes duties and responsibilities upon those who hear it. Here it imposes faith and baptism. Water baptism is a command, not a promise. Holy Spirit baptism is a promise, not a command. We obey commands and enjoy promises. Baptism in the commission is an act of obedience performed by the believer, and therefore it is a command. This being true, and since baptism of the Holy Spirit is always a promise and never a command, therefore the baptism of the commission is not Spirit baptism. Water baptism is a burial. "We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death." (Rom. 6:4). "Having been buried with him in baptism." (Col. 2:12.)