Talking against the law is dangerous

[damombomb]

Why do people forget the" new covenant?"…19And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you;" do this in remembrance of Me." 20And in the same way" He "took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the" new covenant in My blood." 21"But behold, the hand of the one betraying Me is with Mine on the table.…

 

[just-me]

I think you have badly misunderstood what I said. I never said to deny God or Christ and I never said or implied that.

Also I never said all of the Old Testament is obsolete. There are valid things in the OT for us today. Yet the ceremonial aspects of the Jewish law are fulfilled by Christ. That is why the curtain in the temple ripped in two. As Jesus died He said "It is finished" and then the curtain ripped. This is clear evidence that the old ways were fulfilled. The death of Christ removed the penalty for sin so we have no need to throw grace aside and obey laws which never saved a soul. Those who simply obey a single Jewish law that Christ fulfilled are literally jeopardizing their salvation according to Gal 5:4 and that is very serious.

Maybe I did, and for that mistake I apologize. I suggest that even the ceremonial law is not done away with but only in the flesh. In the Sprint the principles still apply. An example would be, "why was the fat, caul, and kidneys destroyed by fire, and what do they represent spiritually if it isn't what is taken in from the world's values, and metaphorically digested by the individual? That's just for starters. The other thing that can be looked at is why the split hoof and the chewing of the cud. It all has spiritual meaning for Christians today. I hope you can comprehend and agree with that. Again, I say the physical aspects of the Leviticus law are gone, but not the Spiritual aspects through Christ Jesus.

 

[Zinzerio]

Why do people forget the" new covenant?"…19And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you;" do this in remembrance of Me." 20And in the same way" He "took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the" new covenant in My blood." 21"But behold, the hand of the one betraying Me is with Mine on the table.…

yes very good point the spirit had been given but can i ask had the law been written where the people oppressed ?

 

[just-me]

and the 21st letter of the Hebrew language is "Sin" shaped like the lower left and right ventricles of a human heart.

It's the shape of a tooth also, with roots, that means to press and eat the exceeding sinfulness of sin, or the sharp edge that eats like a canker. "Shin" ש two front teeth=sharp, press, eat, two

 

[just-me]

yes very good point the spirit had been given but can i ask had the law been written where the people oppressed ?

And as you say it can relate to what this exceeding sinfulness can do to us. Good point that you bring for edification.

 

[just-me]

Why do people forget the" new covenant?"…19And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you;" do this in remembrance of Me." 20And in the same way" He "took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the" new covenant in My blood." 21"But behold, the hand of the one betraying Me is with Mine on the table.…

I haven't seen that, but I suppose some would say that because there is a difference between the old and new, that by just mentioning the law in a positive way is automatically forgetting the New covenant.

 

[Zinzerio]

Originally Posted by ZINZERIO

yes very good point the spirit had been given but can i ask had the law been written where the people oppressed ?

And as you say it can relate to what this exceeding sinfulness can do to us. Good point that you bring for edification.

oops i ment to say had not been given my mistake sorry

 

[Karraster]

The new covenant is part of God's plan, as a final perfect sacrifice, and the One and only Messiah made that sacrifice therefore if we confess Him as our Lord, He owns us heart mind and spirit.

Messiah quoted from scripture in teaching the people.

And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. 15And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
This alludes to Prov 16:5 in the Hebrew, where the wise man claims: "Every one who is arrogant is an abomination [tw'bh] to the LORD"; 5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

It is impossible to truly meditate on what Messiah was trying to convey without searching the scriptures! Perhaps most important of all is Jesus' proclamation of the kingdom of God:

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has drawn near; repent, and believe in the good news" (Mark 1:15). Jesus' "good news" reference harkens back to the "good news" of Isaiah 40:9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!
Torah is life, light, peace, hope, and everything good! It confirms Yahshua/Jesus/Messiah, (however you refer with love to the Son) of the Most High Creator God our Father!! He reigns! Forever He reigns!

 

[danschance]

Maybe I did, and for that mistake I apologize. I suggest that even the ceremonial law is not done away with but only in the flesh. In the Sprint the principles still apply. An example would be, "why was the fat, caul, and kidneys destroyed by fire, and what do they represent spiritually if it isn't what is taken in from the world's values, and metaphorically digested by the individual? That's just for starters. The other thing that can be looked at is why the split hoof and the chewing of the cud. It all has spiritual meaning for Christians today. I hope you can comprehend and agree with that. Again, I say the physical aspects of the Leviticus law are gone, but not the Spiritual aspects through Christ Jesus.

Those things do have meaning. That's why Paul called them the shadow of a reality to come (col 2:17).

 

[chubbena]

The law doesn't give you any power to do the good things or stop doing the bad things.

No one, I mean, no one, and again, no one, and I repeat, no one has ever claim the law has the power to do good.
Remember my answer is to your claim that the law cannot protect. So in order to have a meaningful conversation, please do not keep changing topics.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The way I see how the law protects me:
a. from doing wrong.
b. from putting to shame.
c. from sinning.
d. from scorn and contempt.
e. from worthless things.
f. from deceitful ways.
g. from hopelessness.
h. from bad judgments.
i. from wandering away.
j. from ignorance.
k. from fainting.
l. from perishing in affliction.
m. from death.
n. from foolishness.
o. from evil path.
p. from the ruling of sin.

c.f. Psalm 119

lol. no. The laws tells you how bad you have failed at doing those things.

But a little love and spirit can show you how to do those things.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The law doesn't give you any power to do the good things or stop doing the bad things.

Amen. But it perfectly tells us how much we have failed in doing the good things.

 

[just-me]

Your understanding is the veil.

The law always had one purpose. There is no secondary purpose.

The law was designed to show the whole world their need for a Saviour.

Once we are saved we can see what the Lord Jesus has done in us by the Holy Spirit to cause us to walk in His Statutes and obey His Law. But if we come out from under His Covering of Grace, even for a moment, to attempt to Keep His Law in our own strength it begins to do what it was always designed to do. Condemnation and Death.

Can anyone, even saved Christians, look back at the law and say "I'm perfect now. I remember when I used to be imperfect. Now all that condemnation and death is actually beautiful." The only thing I find beautiful about the law is that it brings me running back to my Saviour, each time, every time... sorry sorry I thought I was awesome for a minute, I didn't realize that it was all You...

I say that there are 2 purposes to the law. First is to lead us to Christ, and second for the believer to die daily as Paul. So in reality, the law is not against the grace of Christ, even though some will say it is. It's all a matter of how we look at it. If we see it in a negative view, we should reconsider our viewpoint, from what I read in scripture. It doesn't vanish as soon as we accept Christ. Other than that, I totally agree with you.

Just because one advocates the law as good doesn't mean that they are instructing others to fall from grace, thereby presenting a clear-cut false doctrine. I have said over and over, the works of the law justifies no one! It was NEVER meant to justify anyone. The law was meant to justify the righteousness of God as we see the truth by His Spirit. If we can't see that, as this post says, we are walking on dangerous ground by talking about the law in a negative way, because that is proof that we cannot see the righteousness of God as He intended us to see Him. Why am I accused of the opposite, if it isn’t a predetermined mindset from others?

Romans 3:3-7 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
[SUP]4[/SUP]God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 6:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2[/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 7:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Romans 7:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Romans 9:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Galatians 2:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

What was destroyed that Paul was talking about….. the law, or the sin? Jesus didn’t destroy anything that came from His Father. NOTHING!!!
Jesus came to destroy the sin! Not the law.
Why in the world do we advocate that the law has changed when WE are the ones that Jesus came to change!!!

My verse at this moment is “Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:” Ephesians 4:26 (KJV)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Guess I would ignore you too because you ignored my questions, cut the scriptures into pieces to fit into your argument which is not. Until you answer with an answer.

I answered by showing you scripture. then showing you my answers in my response to each scripture.

As I said in all of those scriptures. is that not the law of moses. and is that not what you asked? I even quoted from romans 7 for you)

Why good is my answer without scripture to back it up?

 

[danalee]

Ephesians has rather a lot to do with grace rather than law.

The Acts of the Apostles has rather a lot to do with the transition from the old economy.

The Epistle to the Hebrews has rather a lot to say about what, in Christ, is 'better' - a keyword - than what went before in the Old Testament.

Yet it is Friday, some of us need rules.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No one, I mean, no one, and again, no one, and I repeat, no one has ever claim the law has the power to do good.
Remember my answer is to your claim that the law cannot protect. So in order to have a meaningful conversation, please do not keep changing topics.

You have not read much from people in here have you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yet it is Friday, some of us need rules.

Show love to everyone you come into contact with tonight. And you will not need any rules (wink)

 

[Zinzerio]

Show love to everyone you come into contact with tonight. And you will not need any rules (wink)

[h=3]1 Corinthians 8:2-4[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. [SUP]3 [/SUP]But whoever loves God is known by God.


THE FIRST AND The Greatest Commandment
37And He said to him, "'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38"This is the great and foremost commandment. 39"The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.

Yes thanks i am beginning to see that now but 1 Corinthians say woe to you that thinks he knows it all . but two commandments is not all that is written i feel there is a lot more than that as you can still love your neighbor and sin

 

[ivanc0]

[h=3]Matthew 11:28-30[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)


[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. [SUP]30 [/SUP]For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

It Actually depends what the "Law" means for you:
"The law of moses" ?
"The will of your church or Pastor"? That have created a philosophy for you, some times to get your tithes u other benefit
"The will of God" ?


In the Old and new testament it mostly means "The law of Moses" and is written "The Law" as a shortcut.
But currently is used in this three ways all together so the poor follower gets more confused than child starting kindergarten.

"Actually the will of God" is what the follower expects is being taught but the reality is it only depends in the size tithing apetite of the Pastor he has fell into.

I think I should finally put this scripture:
Acts 15:10

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?


I beg you to read all chapter 15, and 21.

 

[haz]

Just because one advocates the law as good doesn't mean that they are instructing others to fall from grace, thereby presenting a clear-cut false doctrine. I have said over and over, the works of the law justifies no one! It was NEVER meant to justify anyone. The law was meant to justify the righteousness of God as we see the truth by His Spirit. If we can't see that, as this post says, we are walking on dangerous ground by talking about the law in a negative way, because that is proof that we cannot see the righteousness of God as He intended us to see Him. Why am I accused of the opposite, if it isn’t a predetermined mindset from others?

You accuse us here of challenging your argument with a pre-determined mindset, and yet in this topic we see you have a pre-determined mindset in accusing us of criticising the law.

Nobody here has been denigrating the law. We all admit the the law is good, just, holy, Rom 7:12.
But what you are looking past is the scripturally supported view we present here that Christ is the END of the law for righteousness, Rom 10:4

Instead of the law we see scripture confirm that it's our faith that is counted for righteousness, rom 4:5.

Note 2Cor3:7-11
But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

Here we see to 2 covenants, 2 different paths to righteousness. The old covenant is labelled the ministry of condemnation/death. The new covenant is labelled the ministry of the Spirit/righteousness.
Both are glorious.
But one is a much more glorious path than the other.

most of us here choose the much more glorious path. The ministry of the Spirit/righteousness. We choose grace.

In choosing grace we therefore must not mix any part of the old covenant with it. A lukewarm mix of grace with works of the law is not acceptable to God, Rev 3:15.
We cannot mix grace with works of the law.
Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.


.

Why in the world do we advocate that the law has changed when WE are the ones that Jesus came to change!!!

nobody has said that the law has changed. Instead we are saying that Christ is the END of the law for righteousness, Rom 10:4. Instead of the law we see in scripture that it's our faith that is counted for righteousness now, Rom 4:5.

The thief on the cross was changed. He was righteous, holy, perfected, all due to Christ's sacrifice. And the thief did not personally obey the law to receive this.