Talking against the law is dangerous

[just-me]

hmm good question i think that one could take a while, but as you know its not for us to judge where God is in there life, like you carnt say he is not deserving of Gods love we are called to encourage people to repent and be saved, i dunno to be honest is my honest opinion it depends i think if they choose the lord or not, i dont think people who already saved sways that thought like oh ok someone might say erm people are unaware or joe blogs got hit by bus he didnt have time to repent , but we have to remember that some things don't actually get talked about by children of god so is it important to salvation ? .

I Think it is if you know your using it has a tool to mislead or cause division , because as well you know many can not come to an agreement of the law or maybe there just set one aspect of the law and not all of its law ,, the best answer i have for you IS God judges the motives,

I agree with you whole hardheartedly, so we continue to shine the light and blow the trumpet of warning.

There are those though who know no better so we do have to be careful who we falsely accuse of purposly try to devide with the law,
Context
For God So Loved
16"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.…


here again we again again say that his one and only son did not die for nothing or suffer the burdens of the world for nothing,
he did this for you and i to have some chance of making it the farther knows what hes doing make no mistake .

Well spoken in principle. AMEN my friend. Those could be words to a song.
"Amen my friend, God is on His throne."
"Amen my friend, God will take us home!"
Just made that up, but it's true

 

[danschance]

I'm not advocating that the law has changed.

Actually the law has changed because that is what the bible states.

11Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. Hebrews 7:11-12

So there is a change in the Mosaic law, as Christ fulfilled them. James 2:10 states if one law is valid then all laws are valid. So this change to the Mosaic law is no minor change. It all literally changed as one block of law.

 

[danschance]

There is no such thing. You are making things up. Stick with what the bible says and don't venture out into fantasy land.

No such thing as the law of Christ? Yes we are under the law of Christ!

Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. Gal 6:2

The law of Christ comes from:

The Greatest Commandment

28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”29“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[SUP]e[/SUP] 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[SUP]f[/SUP] 31The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP]g[/SUP] There is no commandment greater than these.” Mark 12:28-31

Here is an article that goes into more detail of the law of Christ which all Christians are under.
http://www.gotquestions.org/law-of-Christ.html

 

[just-me]

Actually the law has changed because that is what the bible states.

So there is a change in the Mosaic law, as Christ fulfilled them. James 2:10 states if one law is valid then all laws are valid. So this change to the Mosaic law is no minor change. It all literally changed as one block of law.

Hebrews 7:11-17 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

"a change also of the law" is singular, yet I agree with you that it was certainly one dynamic change. It changed on the mount of transfiguration, when Moses and Elijah were present for the change of the priesthood from Levi, to Judah. This Priesthood change was to transfer the Physical temple worship to a Spiritual temple worship not made by human hands.

Hebrews 8:1-5 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

this is the sum: a change also of the law.

The dynamic change was Jesus saying "unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." written in John 2:19

Our sacrifice continues in this new temple when we read. Romans 12:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

This is a wonderful, and beautiful change from the old carnal to the new Spiritual. I love it when a plan comes together.
1 Peter 1:21 Jesus was the ONE "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you," And He says; "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4

 

[ivanc0]

I take it then that you believe all of Jesus' teachings, before He died, are all historical? Some would say that definition is hysterical, but I say that statement could not be farther from the truth, and is very sad. His testimony of salvation was also given before His death.

Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.



So are the we supposed to believe, by your statement, that Jesus taught us to forget all His Father has ever said, and go by His rules that make His Father's spiritual ordinances invalid? I read the Bible as Jesus came to rightly define the words of His Father so we could see the relevance of the truth, for Jesus and God are a unit of "One."

John 5:30-32 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true

John 8:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.




Judaizers don't believe Christ Jesus is the true Messiah. That is a label given to a person with a Pharisaical mind and heart. Now a Pharisaical mind will oppose anything God has every said according to their self made doctrine. They seek their own righteousness by the law (not God's law) that they established for themselves. ​Ring a bell?

John 7:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
Romans 9:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Galatians 3:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Here is a crux of sorts. If we throw the law away, and make it void in our hearts, according to what Paul has written, the faith required to establish the law doesn't exist either.

Please stop for a second and think.... Am I like the Pharisees?

Or a follower of Christ?

1 Corinthians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;

Thanks for teaching me the word is Judaizers and not Judaizants.
Who are they?
[h=3]Galatians 1:6-9[/h] I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

What is that Cursed teachings?


[h=3]Galatians 2:4[/h] Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery—

slavery? .... real? .... or slaverry of the law of Moses?

[h=3]Galatians 5:1[/h] For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.


Yoke of slaverry?

......

Now read:


[h=3]Acts 15:10[/h]English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?


If you can not Understand this then go back to your synagogues!

And this may apply to you:


[h=3]Revelation 3:9[/h]21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but do lie — behold, I will make them to come and worship at thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

No one will really say I am a Jew if he is no one, but this actually means the ones who thinking and teaching like jews.
The ones who want to oppress the gentiles with the Law of Moses. (Tithing, Sabbaths, etc, etc)
Think in Pastors usurping the levites rights by teaching tithing.
Think in Gentiles who think the law of Moses applies to them.

Who are the modern Pharisees? Those wise bible people who want to show great bible wisdom? and deny Grace.

 

[danschance]

for those of us who fully understand the law and what it was, what it means, and what it was intended to do.

It not only protected us, It led us to salvation.

The poor souls who have not yet understood this have yet to find Christ, I can not in my honestly see how they have.

Wow, the phrase above "for those of us who fully understand" and "The poor souls who have not understood.." is making my christian cult alarm go off. All the Christian cults believe they know something that others don't. The LDS know they have a special mandate from God to teach us things like we can be a god and a whole slew of other false teachings. The JW's have discovered that Jesus is an angel, hell does not exist and those who believe the teachings of the watchtower will pick fruit off of trees on paradise earth forever. And so on and so forth it is with all Christian cults and they also instill a sense of pride that they are doing what others do not grasp.

Every man is right in his own estimation. Every person who has any sort of spiritual belief absolutly things it is true. That is why Jesus warned us with this:

33“No one after lighting a lamp puts it in a cellar or under a basket, but on a stand, so that those who enter may see the light.34Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eye is healthy, your whole body is full of light, but when it is bad, your body is full of darkness.35Therefore be careful lest the light in you be darkness.36If then your whole body is full of light, having no part dark, it will be wholly bright, as when a lamp with its rays gives you light.”

Everyone snared in false belief thinks they are filled with light but Jesus states, make sure the light with in you is not actually darkness. So remember when you puff up with pride that you understand what others don't, that you are in the same company as the Christian cults.

 

[Karraster]

Thanks for teaching me the word is Judaizers and not Judaizants.
Who are they?
Galatians 1:6-9

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

What is that Cursed teachings?


Galatians 2:4

Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery—

slavery? .... real? .... or slaverry of the law of Moses?

Galatians 5:1

For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.


Yoke of slaverry?

......

Now read:


Acts 15:10

English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?


If you can not Understand this then go back to your synagogues!

And this may apply to you:


Revelation 3:9

21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but do lie — behold, I will make them to come and worship at thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

No one will really say I am a Jew if he is no one, but this actually means the ones who thinking and teaching like jews.
The ones who want to oppress the gentiles with the Law of Moses. (Tithing, Sabbaths, etc, etc)
Think in Pastors usurping the levites rights by teaching tithing.
Think in Gentiles who think the law of Moses applies to them.

Who are the modern Pharisees? Those wise bible people who want to show great bible wisdom? and deny Grace.

synagog of satan is men who would lord over the people, denying God because they know better. False teachers who lie, pervert the Word of God. Make their own law.

Grace is not a license to sin, grace is the help from God to keep us from sinning. God well defines sin, not man.

 

[Richie_2uk]

Putting down the law just to get over it is very dangerous and that comes from a carnal mind.
Putting down the canal is Spiritual.
Putting down any part of God's words, for the purpose of feeling spiritual, is carnal.
We are not justified by the works of the law any more than we are justified by purposefully negating it, for both ways of thinking are carnal.
Is it really that hard for professing Christians to see a Spiritual law and its Spiritual attributes?
What are we scared of?
The people that want to negate the law to be righteous obviously see the law in a physical way just as the ones that perform the works of the law to be righteous. Both sides of this equation come from a carnal mind.

It is God who gave the law to Moses, not the flesh, for "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." John 4:24 (KJV)

Jeremiah 18:2-6 (KJV)
[SUP]2[/SUP]Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

Romans 9:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Isaiah 29:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

Isaiah 45:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Luke 13:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
for many,will seek to enter and not be able

I understand that we as Christians should not talk ill or run or as you put it " Talk against the law ". But there are times things like so can't be helped. Especially the way they bring us down. even the bible talks about the law makers.

Like in Luke 11: 46 says " Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them."

So you think we should stand still while they do that? There are rebel in us even as Christians to disagree and say hey now come on you law makers, we are low as it is, and you still kick us down? So I think sometimes we can try and talk to the law makers, for at least some mercy in what they decide to do with us people. Yes we have to be careful what we say. But we cant just be quiet and let them run us down like they have since the times of Jesus walked the earth.

 

[ivanc0]

synagog of satan is men who would lord over the people, denying God because they know better. False teachers who lie, pervert the Word of God. Make their own law.

Grace is not a license to sin, grace is the help from God to keep us from sinning. God well defines sin, not man.

You wish.. but actually means the "ones teaching Moses law to Gentiles"

Grace does not equal sin. Grace means living by the spirit of God denying your natural inclinations to fornicate, exploit people, make money by asking tithes, benefit over other, hate, war etc etc.

Yes I am dreaming thinking the people who collect tithes will became real Christians.

 

[just-me]

Thanks for teaching me the word is Judaizers and not Judaizants.
Who are they?
Galatians 1:6-9

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

What is that Cursed teachings?

slavery? .... real? .... or slaverry of the law of Moses?

Yoke of slaverry?

Acts 15:10

English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

If you can not Understand this then go back to your synagogues!

And this may apply to you:

Revelation 3:9

21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but do lie — behold, I will make them to come and worship at thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

No one will really say I am a Jew if he is no one, but this actually means the ones who thinking and teaching like jews.
The ones who want to oppress the gentiles with the Law of Moses. (Tithing, Sabbaths, etc, etc)
Think in Pastors usurping the levites rights by teaching tithing.
Think in Gentiles who think the law of Moses applies to them.

Who are the modern Pharisees? Those wise bible people who want to show great bible wisdom? and deny Grace.

It is nice to know that what I read in the Bible is true in every way. I am glad that the law is stable because it comes from God almighty, the righteous judge. I am happy that He lifted me out from under the condemnation of the law so that I could be with Christ and have opportunity to see His law as He intended me to see it.

James 4:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Post# 204 says the way I see the law. You're talking to the wind of your own mind. Your accusations doesn't apply. I believe in a doctrine that is not my own. It's God's doctrine who gave the law, and His only begotten Son. God doesn't change His mind and say "oops, I made a mistake, so I'm just going to have to chuck what I established before and try again."

Who in the world do you think gave Moses the law?

Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

I say Jesus.

John 14:7-10 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

 

[ivanc0]

It is nice to know that what I read in the Bible is true in every way. I am glad that the law is stable because it comes from God almighty, the righteous judge. I am happy that He lifted me out from under the condemnation of the law so that I could be with Christ and have opportunity to see His law as He intended me to see it.

James 4:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Post# 204 says the way I see the law. You're talking to the wind of your own mind. Your accusations doesn't apply. I believe in a doctrine that is not my own. It's God's doctrine who gave the law, and His only begotten Son. God doesn't change His mind and say "oops, I made a mistake, so I'm just going to have to chuck what I established before and try again."

Who in the world do you think gave Moses the law?

Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

I say Jesus.

John 14:7-10 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

....And you have completely IGNORED the scriptures I have sent to you. You have to erase the "DOCTRINE" and read the New Testament, with a Pure Intention.

 

[Karraster]

I understand that we as Christians should not talk ill or run or as you put it " Talk against the law ". But there are times things like so can't be helped. Especially the way they bring us down. even the bible talks about the law makers.

Like in Luke 11: 46 says " Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them."

So you think we should stand still while they do that? There are rebel in us even as Christians to disagree and say hey now come on you law makers, we are low as it is, and you still kick us down? So I think sometimes we can try and talk to the law makers, for at least some mercy in what they decide to do with us people. Yes we have to be careful what we say. But we cant just be quiet and let them run us down like they have since the times of Jesus walked the earth.

Jesus was referring to Rabbinic law.

 

[Karraster]

You wish.. but actually means the "ones teaching Moses law to Gentiles"

Grace does not equal sin. Grace means living by the spirit of God denying your natural inclinations to fornicate, exploit people, make money by asking tithes, benefit over other, hate, war etc etc.

Yes I am dreaming thinking the people who collect tithes will became real Christians.

Oh yeah, I just noticed your thread about "The scariest conspiracy ever"...tithing...lol

Tithing is voluntary, I don't even go there, it is between every man and God what is done with money or goods.

I'm so thankful today....for the ignore button.

 

[just-me]

I understand that we as Christians should not talk ill or run or as you put it " Talk against the law ". But there are times things like so can't be helped. Especially the way they bring us down. even the bible talks about the law makers.

Like in Luke 11: 46 says " Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them."

So you think we should stand still while they do that? There are rebel in us even as Christians to disagree and say hey now come on you law makers, we are low as it is, and you still kick us down? So I think sometimes we can try and talk to the law makers, for at least some mercy in what they decide to do with us people. Yes we have to be careful what we say. But we cant just be quiet and let them run us down like they have since the times of Jesus walked the earth.

The key to agreement is understanding the difference between the hypocrites law and God's law. Some like to present rhetoric that indicates that God's law has changed in principle, and they fail to address the fact that we are the ones that must change through Christ. When a person claims they are no longer under the law, it doesn't give one the right to say "I'm over it" either. Through Christ Jesus we have been lifted up out from under the law's condemnation. There is no difference between the law of God, and the law of Christ in Spirit. There should be a change however with us, defining the difference between the fleshly carnal mind and the Spiritual mind of Christ.

Romans 8:5-8 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So to answer your question "So you think we should stand still while they do that?" Before labeling, we should converse with those we have assumptions about to know if they see the law as spiritual or carnal such as would be Pharisaical. If in fact they are advocating rules that cannot be defined with comparing spiritual with spiritual, then I would join in with you because very likely they are compromising the truth. Just because one reveres the law God gave to Moses doesn't mean they are fallen from grace. Nevertheless if they are advocating their righteousness by saying they abide in the law, the first thing I would ask them is "do you do that through the faith in Christ, or do you do that just because it makes you feel righteous?"

The law of God isn't going away, but what should go away is our carnal mind, for if we are no longer under the law, we see it in the right perspective, and we can learn from it.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16[/SUP]ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Grandpa]

I agree with your statements, but I would say them a little different like "dead by, or through the law."

The other one would be "if I attempt to resurrect that (being sin) which has been destroyed, I make myself a transgressor, for sin is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4a for "whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." Where I think the law has a double purpose, is because of this next verse, but I can understand what you are saying about the faith you have.

Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31[/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, ***we establish the law.

As I read the above, I think about these next 2 scriptures, while not thinking negatively of your statements. I just think it goes further than what you describe. Faith doesn't negate the law even though some will say that after faith the "schoolmaster" is abolished. That is a contradiction to the complete doctrine in the Bible that Paul teaches.

Hebrews 11:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For by it the elders obtained a good report.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Romans 8:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Habakkuk 2:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Romans 1:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 3:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Hebrews 10:38 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.


***If the law is established by our faith, then to get rid of the law by the doctrine that we like, faith has nothing left to establish, and faith without works is dead being alone. (James 2:17) With this said, I'm not advocating that we are to abide by the law with the carnal mind of the physical, or the flesh, I'm saying to establish the law by faith in the Spirit of God who gave us both the law and faith.

Galatians 2:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

God bless you my friend. To some the above may look like scripture contradicts itself, but we know better.

Faith is a spiritual principle that those with the veil over their mind cannot see. No matter how many times it is presented to them.

Faith doesn't try to establish the law. It just does. Because faith in Christ causes us to abide in Him, knowing that in Him is our blessing and no where else.

So how does Christ bless us? One of the ways is by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit doesn't try to establish the law. The Holy Spirit just does it because it is the Holy Spirits nature.

This principle of faith is taught to us by the Schoolmaster. It is only after we have given up all hope in ourselves and our strength and will that we can turn to the Lord Jesus with our whole hearts.

If we are looking to be blessed by something other than abiding in Christ we are fallen from Grace and attempting to establish our own work, again.

The good news is that there is no reason to turn away from Christ and turn towards anything else. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for all who believe. This is how the law is established. By His Work in us. By faith.

I haven't attempted to abolish the law. I have learned that it is the work of the Holy Spirit that keeps the law. If I am working or striving then I have turned away from the rest that is in Christ. But when I abide in Christ He grows the fruit of Righteousness in my life, through faith.

This fruit is not grown by any other means but faith in Christ.

Galatians 2:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The law and the prophets are a description of this Salvation and Righteousness that we would receive by our Faith in Christ.

This is a pretty easy concept to grasp after the Holy Spirit shows us how big the gap is that we must cross to get from where we are to where God is. We need supernatural help. We need Christ.

Do you remember the story of Lots wife how she turned back and was turned into a pillar of salt? She yearned for what was familiar to her. Trusting in Christ for our provision, help and Righteousness is not familiar to us. Its strange. But if we turn back to the law, which is familiar to us, we become like Lots wife. We do what Paul warns the Galatians not to do.

Hebrews 10:38 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

 

[just-me]

....And you have completely IGNORED the scriptures I have sent to you. You have to erase the "DOCTRINE" and read the New Testament, with a Pure Intention.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. [SUP]30 [/SUP]For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
Acts 15:10
[SUP] 10 [/SUP]Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Jesus gave us a new covenant, new set of rules mathew 5-6.
Who are they?
Galatians 1:6-9
Galatians 2:4
Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery—
Galatians 5:1
For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
Acts 15:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
Revelation 3:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but do lie — behold, I will make them to come and worship at thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

These are the scriptures that you sent me. I have read the complete book of Acts more than once, and as far as everything I have read in the Bible I agree with. It's your comments that I disagree with, not the scriptures you endorsed.

 

[Grandpa]

Actually the law has changed because that is what the bible states.



So there is a change in the Mosaic law, as Christ fulfilled them. James 2:10 states if one law is valid then all laws are valid. So this change to the Mosaic law is no minor change. It all literally changed as one block of law.

There is not a change to the Mosaic Law. It was written in stone. What is changed is our New High Priest and the New Law that He places us under.

Romans 8:1-2
[SUP]1[/SUP]There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

That is the difference between the Levitical Priesthood and the Priesthood according to the order of Melchizedek, The Lord Jesus.

So in effect, as you say, the law has changed... for us who have a new High Priest. Its a whole separate thing.

I think we are probably saying the same things. Just with a little different understanding?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

right and amen because the law gives life look here
The Holy Spirit Gives Life

8 Those who belong to Christ Jesus are no longer under God’s sentence. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I am now controlled by the law of the Holy Spirit. That law gives me life because of what Christ Jesus has done. It has set me free from the law of sin that brings death.

amen.

but if you think that law is the same as the levitical law. then you would be in trouble, because it is not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wow, the phrase above "for those of us who fully understand" and "The poor souls who have not understood.." is making my christian cult alarm go off.

Thats ok. It is biblical reality that some understand and some do not. So I am not to worried about being called a cult. Just following the word of God. There is one gospel. Not two. Not three. If I am a cult because I believe what the bible says about this very thing. Then I must be a member of a prety Good Cult.

All the Christian cults believe they know something that others don't. The LDS know they have a special mandate from God to teach us things like we can be a god and a whole slew of other false teachings. The JW's have discovered that Jesus is an angel, hell does not exist and those who believe the teachings of the watchtower will pick fruit off of trees on paradise earth forever. And so on and so forth it is with all Christian cults and they also instill a sense of pride that they are doing what others do not grasp.

Every man is right in his own estimation. Every person who has any sort of spiritual belief absolutly things it is true. That is why Jesus warned us with this:



Everyone snared in false belief thinks they are filled with light but Jesus states, make sure the light with in you is not actually darkness. So remember when you puff up with pride that you understand what others don't, that you are in the same company as the Christian cults.

lol.

The bible says what I said.

again, Those who understand the law will follow the schoolmaster. those who do not will not.

 

[just-me]

Faith is a spiritual principle that those with the veil over their mind cannot see. No matter how many times it is presented to them.

Faith doesn't try to establish the law. It just does. Because faith in Christ causes us to abide in Him, knowing that in Him is our blessing and no where else.

So how does Christ bless us? One of the ways is by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit doesn't try to establish the law. The Holy Spirit just does it because it is the Holy Spirits nature.

This principle of faith is taught to us by the Schoolmaster. It is only after we have given up all hope in ourselves and our strength and will that we can turn to the Lord Jesus with our whole hearts.

If we are looking to be blessed by something other than abiding in Christ we are fallen from Grace and attempting to establish our own work, again.

The good news is that there is no reason to turn away from Christ and turn towards anything else. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for all who believe. This is how the law is established. By His Work in us. By faith.

I haven't attempted to abolish the law. I have learned that it is the work of the Holy Spirit that keeps the law. If I am working or striving then I have turned away from the rest that is in Christ. But when I abide in Christ He grows the fruit of Righteousness in my life, through faith.

This fruit is not grown by any other means but faith in Christ.

Galatians 2:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The law and the prophets are a description of this Salvation and Righteousness that we would receive by our Faith in Christ.

This is a pretty easy concept to grasp after the Holy Spirit shows us how big the gap is that we must cross to get from where we are to where God is. We need supernatural help. We need Christ.

Do you remember the story of Lots wife how she turned back and was turned into a pillar of salt? She yearned for what was familiar to her. Trusting in Christ for our provision, help and Righteousness is not familiar to us. Its strange. But if we turn back to the law, which is familiar to us, we become like Lots wife. We do what Paul warns the Galatians not to do.

Hebrews 10:38 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

It is true in all you wrote except in one thing, if I may. I think the analogy of Lots wife can be taken incorrectly by some because she was turning back to iniquity, and there is no iniquity in God's law. To be more clear, if the law convicts us to turn to Christ and we have eaten the metaphorical "bitter herbs" of this exodus, that bitterness against our former way of life will keep us looking straight ahead, and not turning back. Turning to the law to be enlightened because that is our heart's desire is much different than turning back to sin because we loved the former life of iniquity. That's what Lot's wife did.