Is Jesus God?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
J

ji

Guest
Most assuredly.






God The Son and God The Spirit have manifested in physical form.








The Trinity Shield represents ALL of scripture.

You cannot scripturally refute it.








God The Son was in the flesh in OT times, also....He was just not known as 'The Son' until NT times.










You cannot see God The Father and be physically alive.

However, thousands of people have seen God The Son and lived to tell about it.








Unless...of course...you are afraid to defend it....which is most likely the case...








The Trinity is an epithet representing ALL of scripture, as the Creator has chosen to reveal Himself.

Simple.
Type it short and it s clear then also that you are wrong.
Jesus came in flesh and constrained Himself in time.
Holy Spirit is doing the same.
The term Trinity is not there in the Holy Bible...its ok if you want to refer it so,but that's not the true way to express God.
Jesus was not revealed in OT.
God the Father is never mentioned as a person in human form or any finite form throughout the Holy Scripture..


can you answer this?
When Jesus came in Flesh,whom did He call as Father?
Whom did He mention as Caretaker after He would ascend to Heaven after rising up from the dead..?
why are they refered separately and in order...from top to bottom in Godhead?
you are reminding me of someone who plays with words in another post i had...
continue this so i can avoid talking to you too...

"Unless...of course...you are afraid to defend it....which is most likely the case..."- i don't fall for intimidation:)
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
You have nothing...

Type it short and it s clear then also that you are wrong.
Jesus came in flesh and constrained Himself in time.
Holy Spirit is doing the same.
The term Trinity is not there in the Holy Bible...its ok if you want to refer it so,but that's not the true way to express God.
Again...

The term 'Trinity' is an epithet representing the sum total of ALL scripture....as such, there are NO verses that refute it.

Keep dancing...






Jesus was not revealed in OT.
Yes, He was.

He was known as El Shaddai, Malek Yahweh, Yahweh, The Word of Yahweh, etc, etc...


Study up...







God the Father is never mentioned as a person in human form or any finite form throughout the Holy Scripture..

And...?




can you answer this?
When Jesus came in Flesh,whom did He call as Father?

God The Father....and?




Whom did He mention as Caretaker after He would ascend to Heaven after rising up from the dead..?

The Triune God.




why are they refered separately and in order...from top to bottom in Godhead?

They are shown to NOT be each other, because they are NOT each other.

However, while they are NOT each other, each is the one God.

Simple Biblical logic.






you are reminding me of someone who plays with words in another post i had...

You remind me of someone who has never studied scripture...just enough info to be dangerous to yourself...




continue this so i can avoid talking to you too...

That would be a cop-out...and, to be expected...




"Unless...of course...you are afraid to defend it....which is most likely the case..."- i don't fall for intimidation:)

Then...bring forth the scriptures that you supposedly have....just like YOU said that you would.

I called your bluff.

Period.

 
J

ji

Guest
Re: You have nothing...

Again...

The term 'Trinity' is an epithet representing the sum total of ALL scripture....as such, there are NO verses that refute it.

Keep dancing...








Yes, He was.

He was known as El Shaddai, Malek Yahweh, Yahweh, The Word of Yahweh, etc, etc...


Study up...










And...?







God The Father....and?







The Triune God.







They are shown to NOT be each other, because they are NOT each other.

However, while they are NOT each other, each is the one God.

Simple Biblical logic.









You remind me of someone who has never studied scripture...just enough info to be dangerous to yourself...







That would be a cop-out...and, to be expected...







Then...bring forth the scriptures that you supposedly have....just like YOU said that you would.

I called your bluff.

Period.

there is no period,here is how it is...

lets see who is bluffing...


Jesus came in flesh and made himself of no value and made that also very clear when He was in flesh...
"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God." Luke 18:19 KJV.

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." John 16 7 KJV.

He has authority to send Holy Spirit,not holy spirit the authority to send Jesus..
"And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
But God raised him from the dead:"Acts 13:29,30KJV who is this God when Jesus was dead?


"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Who is mentioned here as to glory of God the Father and why did God exalt him,who is this God other than Jesus then?

Look,if its my way of telling things that made you feel that you are wrong then i apologize..but am talking the Holy Bible.

The Godhead is a family...
Please explain how did Jesus come down in flesh if it was just one entity?
Give some proper quotes from Holy Scripture.
 
J

ji

Guest
Re: You have nothing...

Again...

The term 'Trinity' is an epithet representing the sum total of ALL scripture....as such, there are NO verses that refute it.

Keep dancing...








Yes, He was.

He was known as El Shaddai, Malek Yahweh, Yahweh, The Word of Yahweh, etc, etc...


Study up...
I called your bluff.










And...?







God The Father....and?







The Triune God.







They are shown to NOT be each other, because they are NOT each other.

However, while they are NOT each other, each is the one God.

Simple Biblical logic.









You remind me of someone who has never studied scripture...just enough info to be dangerous to yourself...







That would be a cop-out...and, to be expected...







Then...bring forth the scriptures that you supposedly have....just like YOU said that you would.

I called your bluff.

Period.

Please explain with Holy Scripture since you know better than anyone in the world to explain the Godhead while they(Godhead) can come separated and be one
..none did so far...

"They are shown to NOT be each other, because they are NOT each other.

However, while they are NOT each other, each is the one God.

Simple Biblical logic."- your words,explain with HolyScripture

"You remind me of someone who has never studied scripture...just enough info to be dangerous to yourself..." - your words.


How?Are you mature enough for your age to tell me how dangerous i am without knowing anything about me...

"you are reminding me of someone who plays with words in another post i had...
continue this so i can avoid talking to you too..."- my words in the earlier post.This happened in a thread posted by someone regarding revelation of judas to Jesus.

Please don't make lame comments like
"I called your bluff","Keep dancing..." etc because you cannot explain things clearly.Or is it because i am not from usa that you think you need to intimidate me and that too without any Holy Scriptural reference?
PLEASE EXPLAIN EVERYTHING....no lame excuses please..
Begin with explaining Godhead,trinity is not used in Holy Bible.
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
Re: You have nothing...

there is no period,here is how it is...

lets see who is bluffing...


Jesus came in flesh and made himself of no value and made that also very clear when He was in flesh...
"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God." Luke 18:19 KJV.

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." John 16 7 KJV.

He has authority to send Holy Spirit,not holy spirit the authority to send Jesus..
"And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
But God raised him from the dead:"Acts 13:29,30KJV who is this God when Jesus was dead?


"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Who is mentioned here as to glory of God the Father and why did God exalt him,who is this God other than Jesus then?

Look,if its my way of telling things that made you feel that you are wrong then i apologize..but am talking the Holy Bible.

The Godhead is a family...
Please explain how did Jesus come down in flesh if it was just one entity?
Give some proper quotes from Holy Scripture.

Why do you quote Trinitarian English renderings when you deny The Trinity?

This is called hypocrisy...

 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
Re: You have nothing...

Please explain with Holy Scripture since you know better than anyone in the world to explain the Godhead while they(Godhead) can come separated and be one
..none did so far...

The Trinity shield shows the relationship of The Trinity.

Again...

Bring forth ANY Biblical verse which you think somehow thwarts the Trinity and detail to us why it supposedly does.

All that you can do is bring forth Trinitarian English renderings and then ask questions about it....hardly a vote of confidence on YOUR part....more like a vote of complete and utter ignorance and uncertainty...

 
J

ji

Guest
Re: You have nothing...

Why do you quote Trinitarian English renderings when you deny The Trinity?

This is called hypocrisy...

Quote them please,.....
A hypocrite is one who doesn't live accordingly and claim they are perfect,sinless and all knowing,
am not..!!!

"They are shown to NOT be each other, because they are NOT each other.

However, while they are NOT each other, each is the one God.

Simple Biblical logic." -your words
Also explain how this can happen?
How does that 'simple logic' work?that sounds advanced and beyond man's logic to me.And i have never seen a single Christian who says they understand the Godhead well enough..because its beyond logic.
Can you explain more clearly?, since you avoided many other things i pointed out with Holy Scripture unless you are going to explain it clearly in another post following this..
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
Hebrews 1 offers the inspired interpretation of that Psalm. The word Elohim is comparable to the word Theos. The Hebrew writer is quoting this passage to show that Jesus is the God of that passage. You are suggesting that because Elohim is sometimes used to speak of man that this means that it is not used to show that Jesus is God. Your argument is exactly the opposite as that of the Hebrew writer.
It can be read from a non-trinitarian perspective just the same and make more sense. You can claim it is written for the purpose of showing that Jesus is God, just as easily as I could claim it is written for the purpose of showing that Jesus is Messiah and the Son Of God. I'm at no odds with the writer of Hebrews, I completely agree with everything said in the book. It's only the interpretations that some theologists place upon the text that I disagree with.
 
J

ji

Guest
Re: You have nothing...

The Trinity shield shows the relationship of The Trinity.

Again...

Bring forth ANY Biblical verse which you think somehow thwarts the Trinity and detail to us why it supposedly does.

All that you can do is bring forth Trinitarian English renderings and then ask questions about it....hardly a vote of confidence on YOUR part....more like a vote of complete and utter ignorance and uncertainty...

your messages are getting shorter because you cannot refute Holy Scripture.i am not saying you shouldn't use the term trinity(already mentioned in an earlier post by me),but its not the appropriate term but Godhead is and its not democracy(like your profile pic points out) but there is an order.

"Bring forth ANY Biblical verse which you think somehow thwarts the Trinity and detail to us why it supposedly does." - your words.
The term trinity is wrong in the sense,Jesus doesn't know everything but He follows what God tells Him(Mathew 24:36 KJV).Jesus is seated now at the right hand of God the Father(Father of Lights -james 1:17 KJV,1 Timothy 6:16,and many more verses if you want to know the God the Father who is "LOVE") to intercede for us even though He has attained the omnipotent everlasting Godhead,because eternity has not come yet.

i can explain more,and this doesn't mean am more mature than you but am still under lot of pressure to change and become a better person in Jesus.No am not perfect nor am i debate crazy.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
614
113
70
Alabama
It can be read from a non-trinitarian perspective just the same and make more sense. You can claim it is written for the purpose of showing that Jesus is God, just as easily as I could claim it is written for the purpose of showing that Jesus is Messiah and the Son Of God. I'm at no odds with the writer of Hebrews, I completely agree with everything said in the book. It's only the interpretations that some theologists place upon the text that I disagree with.
Do you see the same thing in John 1:1 and Phil 2 ?
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
According to what I have learned, elohim may mean gods, powers or even powerful people. When Elohim is used as God it is usually modified with singular adjectives, being treated as One El, while otherwise used as elohim, it is modified with plural adjectives.

As for the mystery of the Person of our Maker, when Elohim is used I do tend to think It is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and this is correct, because they are One. This will nevery be truly explained in this age, although we, who believe, have a good faith grip on the matter, not requiring more than to believe and wait for the unveiling of Yahweh's great mysteries. There must be a lot of them, and they must be marvelous, yes.
Your correct brother, there are times when Elohim is used to refer to singular, as well as plural (as a side note "El" itself is quite interesting in it's usages). Elohim can mean a lot of things. Even in non-trinitarian thought, Jesus is rightly and correctly called Elohim. Elohim does not always mean the Most High God though, and that's the point I was making. In modern English and theological thought, we don't usually use the term God in the same fashion as the word Elohim is used. I would love to discuss this with you further JaumeJ, whether in PM or the public forum. I have a lot of respect for you and you never engage in vain conversation.

There are unsearchable mysteries in God, no disagreement with you on that. My case is simply that since scripture never says anything directly about Trinity, Jesus never refers to himself as God but does refer to himself as The Son of God. The entirety of scripture makes ALOT more sense from a non-trinitarian view. Somethings that are referred to as mysterious from a trinitarian view, are not so mysterious at all from the non-trinitarian perspective. The dispute seems to originate from the fact that Jesus and the Father are one. The fact that Jesus and God are one is not in dispute from a non-trinitarian viewpoint. Its that Jesus is the Son of the Most High, and not the Most High himself is where belief differs.

I'll give an example of how it makes so much more sense from the non-trinity camp than it does for the trinitarian side. Compare these two verses.

John 10:30

"I and my Father are one."

in contrast to:

John 17:21:

"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
"
So if we are one, and Jesus desires for us to be one in him and the Father.....would that make us God if we are to abide in him the way he described? Most certainly not. That's part of what Christ did for us that makes it so grand, thanks to Christ.....we can now dwell in God and he in us.......we now have the power to become the Sons of God. But because there is this mutual abiding, it doesn't make us the Most High.

A separate question must be asked, is there any greater than God? We all know that none is greater than God, for he is the Most High. Then you have to look at John 14:28

"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
"

Jesus himself calls the father Greater than him. Yet they are one, God dwells in Christ and he in God.

John 20:17:

"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
"
There is no reason to ask if God has a God from the non-trinity perspective. I can find nothing unscriptural or blasphemous from this point of view. Can you? I could certainly include many more verses but I think what I have posted is sufficient to explain myself. These are some reasons why I am not Trinitarian. I have more respect for your word as an Elder than anyone else on CC. How would you reply to this?
 
Mar 12, 2014
240
2
0
In John 14 Jesus said that WE abide in the Father-Son in the same sense that the Father-Son abides in us: when we keep HIS commandments. Jesus as the SON did not take any credit for the word or commands which the Father breathed (spirit not a people) Him. Jesus was full of the Divine Nature but the Almighty Who fills the universe did not live INSIDE of the man Jesus of Nazareth. So when we are baptized INTO Christ I don't think that means that we move INSIDE of Jesus: rather being IN Christ means that we are CLOTHED with Christ.

Jesus of Nazareth is called THE MAN even as He is the Only Mediator between the ONE GOD THE FATHER.

We learned somewhere that the MAN who is FLESH cannot be the mediator in His role as holy (wholly) Spirit
after His glorification and the ONE GOD THE FATHER if the man who came in the FLESH was a part of the THREE GODS THE FATHER, SON AND SPIRIT (means breath).

Personae does not mean person as a PEOPLE and people who dared call God a PERSON would be in grave trouble.

Jesus said that the ONE GOD THE FATHER was greater than he:
IF the ONE GOD THE FATHER lived inside of the Man Christ Jesus doesn't that get crowded?

father, spirit (mother) and conceived son is the ALWAYS-PAGAN and polytheistic THESIS.
God gave us the ANTITHESIS in the face of the ONE MAN JESUS OF NAZARETH to absolutely guarantee that we understand that the ALMIGHTY is not three almighties. ALL of the authority of God he TRIED to put under the name (singular) of Jesus so we COULD NOT go wrong..go wrong...go wrong.

Isn't it despising God and His WORD (defined as blasphemy in Jeremiah 23 to say that God said something He did not) to say that HE (always a He) was NOT BRIGHT ENOUGH to say:

I the Almighty are three almighties: I am the Father God, Jesus is the Son God and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit God. Instead the Scriptures are filled with statements that I as the Lord (Jehovah) am the only TRUE God (Elohim). Why would people work so hard to say; NO, that's not true.

Jesus the man was not FILLED FULL of the One God the Father, the ALMIGHTY being INSIDE. Jesus was filled with the DIVINE NATURE. He was filled with the WORD (Logos) because he said that God gave him God's Spirit or BREATH so that the MAN could only speak what the Father told Him to say.

We are filled with the Divine Nature when we speak where the Bible speaks. Jesus said My Words are SPIRIT which being interpreted "the Spirit is not my younger brother."

Certainly speaking the name of trinity or the concept of the neo-tritheism is NOT speaking where the Bible speaks nor being silent where the Bible is silent. Historician trinity inventors used the word "trias" and confessed that they were refuting Greek Cosmology and defining the INTRINSIC nature of the ONE GOD THE FATHER always as:

Father conceives a logos or "regulating principle"
Father BREATHES His "thought" where both Hebrew and Greek spirit literally means ONLY WIND. Only as a metaphor for God who does not huff and puff, ruwah and pneuma are used as BREATH.
The Son is defined as the Word of God made audible.Jesus of Nazareth ARTICULATED what the father BREATHED into Him without METRON meaning METER. He SPOKE which excludes METER. Isn't it strange that the command is to "speak that which is written for our learning" or "Scripture for our comfort" and none of the SPEAKS WHERE The-O-Lites obeyed that command in either songs or sermons this morning. Christ marked such people when he marked such people as THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM.

Isa 8:19And when they shall say unto you,
.....Seek unto them that have familiar spirits,
.....and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter:
..... should not a people seek unto their God?
.....for the living to the dead?

The Jews had a covenant with death and hell and Isaiah 8 is defining all of the sorcery type words of rhetoric, singing, playing instruments or acting: anything which PREVENTS people from seeking the Lord.

[SIZE=+1]To the law and to the testimony:
[SIZE=+1] [/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]..... [SIZE=+1]if they speak not according to this word[/SIZE][SIZE=+1],[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] [/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1].....it is because there is no light in them.[SIZE=+1] Isa 8:20

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]The LORD is the Spirit and the Prophecies are by the Spirit OF Christ.
A Church of Christ is built upon or Educated by the Prophets and Apostles.
Peter said that was not subject to Private Interpretation which means FURTHER expounding.
Those who disobeyed this had no regard for Jesus and he marked them as false teachers.
Even the mention of TRINITY and being ignorant of the inventors of the TRIAS concept is FURTHER EXPOUNDING.[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
 
S

Spokenpassage

Guest
The Trinity is God Almighty in three persons; neither separate in being, nor divided.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit has always been God, the one true God. But who was begotten? The Son. And who begotten Him? The Father. And who was sent from the Father to lead us into all truth when Jesus left? The Holy Spirit.

Though they exist equally divine in everything; character, nature, name. They are different persons. Same Lord, same God, all three are one. The Son is fully divine as the Father is.

The Father was never human, but the Son was because the Father begotten Him (though He existed before it). Not only that but we await for Christ to come back, even though He abides in us by His Spirit. Are we awaiting for the coming of the Holy Spirit whom we have, or the glorified Christ who is coming in glory for salvation?

All things came from the Father. All things came by the Son. (1 Corinthians 8:6)
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
Do you see the same thing in John 1:1 and Phil 2 ?
I see the same thing in the entire bible.

1 John 4:15:

"Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God."

I confess that Jesus is the Son of God. There's nowhere in the bible that asks or says that Jesus must be acknowledged as the Most High God himself. This is why I believe Trinity is a private interpretation imposed onto the Scripture. I don't seek to change anyone's belief on the matter here. I merely see no one defending non-trinitiarian thought adequately, that's the only reason I continue to post in this thread. All should ask God for the truth and do as the spirit leads them. I'm not here to teach anyone because no one needs me to, I'm simply defending a scriptural position.

1 John 2:27

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
"
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
614
113
70
Alabama
I see the same thing in the entire bible.

1 John 4:15:

"Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God."

I confess that Jesus is the Son of God. There's nowhere in the bible that asks or says that Jesus must be acknowledged as the Most High God himself. This is why I believe Trinity is a private interpretation imposed onto the Scripture. I don't seek to change anyone's belief on the matter here. I merely see no one defending non-trinitiarian thought adequately, that's the only reason I continue to post in this thread. All should ask God for the truth and do as the spirit leads them. I'm not here to teach anyone because no one needs me to, I'm simply defending a scriptural position.

1 John 2:27

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
"
Then can you explain the grammatical structure of John 1:1 and why this text does not represent him as God?
 
Mar 12, 2014
240
2
0
Trinitarians would agree with Jesus in John that when God "began to speak" He emitted a Word from Himself. God's WORD is His SON.
There is only ONE ALMIGHTY and there cannot be THREE almighties.

Trinitarians used the word PERSONAE which is masks or personifications. If you use websters and apply "person" to God in any sense Paul Tillich notes that before the nintheenth century they would call you that heresy.

Father, Spirit (mother) and son is the ALWAYS-pagan view who were unable to grasp that a god could exist much taller or smarter than they.
God gave the MAN Jesus of Nazareth FULL authority that men like Philip would want to SEE the father person could NOT be mistaken.

After Jesus was received into the Spirit World He still guided the apostles into all truth: there is nothing beyond ALL. After that assignment the one mediator is the MAN JESUS CHRIST.

Jesus of Nazareth was of the SEED of Abraham and David: He was not the SEED of Jehovah God: that is a pagan concept. The SEED was the EGG in Mary and God "sparked" that cell into dividing.

Jesus of Nazareth (now in Holy or Wholly Spirit form) is about 2,000 years old.
No man can SEE God but the Son has DECLARED HIM. When you see the Son you see the Father people need to see but they did NOT see Jehovah WHO is ONE almighty.

If modern theologians had ever read the original writers they would never get a THREE EQUAL GODS which the neo-trinitarians demand. Again, it is to despise Christ and the LOGOS to say that He was not capable in His culture to understand what WE understand.

God is not one nor three PERSONS which means PEOPLE. God has three personae: He thinks, He breaths, He articulates through prophets like Jesus.

Jesus is called a son after His baptism. Jesus as the Messiah came IN THE FLESH. God MADE JESUS TO BE both Lord and Christ AFTER he was born OF FLESH.

It is true:
All things came FROM the father including Jesus of Nazareth.
All things came BY Jesus as God's INSTRUMENTAL MEANS.

Jesus the MAN is mediator between GOD AND MAN. John says that it is ANTICHRISTIAN to deny that Jesus as the MESSIAH was fully FLESH.
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
Then can you explain the grammatical structure of John 1:1 and why this text does not represent him as God?
What is it that needs to be explained exactly? Just compare it with the rest of scripture. There is nothing wrong with the grammatical structure of John 1


John 10:30:

"I and my Father are one.
"

John 14:10:

"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
"
So the word is God, God dwells in Jesus, and the words Jesus speaks are not his own.....they are from the Father.

John 12:50:

"And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
"

John 8:40:

"But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham."


So the word of God dwells in Jesus (It's equally as accurate to say God dwells in Jesus) fully,, how is that supposed to support the doctrine of the trinity? The word of God was manifested in the flesh just like John says. Non-Trinitarians do not disagree with this either. Notice that all the verses I used are from the book of John. All that needs to be done is read the whole thing in context. Would not John say that Jesus is God, or shouldn't is say SOMEWHERE in the entire bible that Jesus is God? Yet John says

John 1:34:

"And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
"
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
Trinitarians would agree with Jesus in John that when God "began to speak" He emitted a Word from Himself. God's WORD is His SON.
I thought the Word took flesh upon Himself and became the Son?

Trinitarians used the word PERSONAE which is masks or personifications. If you use websters and apply "person" to God in any sense Paul Tillich notes that before the nintheenth century they would call you that heresy.
What about the administrations of God?

God gave the MAN Jesus of Nazareth FULL authority that men like Philip would want to SEE the father person could NOT be mistaken.
The man Jesus who was the Word incarnated.

After Jesus was received into the Spirit World He still guided the apostles into all truth: there is nothing beyond ALL. After that assignment the one mediator is the MAN JESUS CHRIST.
Jesus, as the Word incarnated, RECEIVED BACK His throne in Heaven. Being that He was the Word, He speaks nothing but the Truth.

Jesus of Nazareth was of the SEED of Abraham and David: He was not the SEED of Jehovah God: that is a pagan concept. The SEED was the EGG in Mary and God "sparked" that cell into dividing.
Jesus, the man, was the seed of Abraham and David through Mary. He, being sent by God to come to Earth, was the seed of God because it was God who born Him through Mary.

Jesus of Nazareth (now in Holy or Wholly Spirit form) is about 2,000 years old.
I suppose this is true. But, as the Word, He is eternal.

No man can SEE God but the Son has DECLARED HIM. When you see the Son you see the Father people need to see but they did NOT see Jehovah WHO is ONE almighty.
Was it not Jehovah who said that He is our Savior?

Again, it is to despise Christ and the LOGOS to say that He was not capable in His culture to understand what WE understand.
But, it was the LOGOS who became the Christ.

God is not one nor three PERSONS which means PEOPLE. God has three personae: He thinks, He breaths, He articulates through prophets like Jesus.
Perhaps, three administrations?

Jesus is called a son after His baptism.
Because Jesus the man was born. The Son has a beginning, but the Word who took flesh upon Himself has no beginning.

Jesus as the Messiah came IN THE FLESH.
The Word, in order to become the Messiah, came in the flesh. If He 'came' then from where did He come from?

God MADE JESUS TO BE both Lord and Christ AFTER he was born OF FLESH.
God made the Word to be both Lord and Christ after He underwent the things He did as Jesus.

It is true:
All things came FROM the father including Jesus of Nazareth.
The Word was SENT from the Father to become Jesus of Nazareth.

All things came BY Jesus as God's INSTRUMENTAL MEANS.
All things came by the Word as the Father's instrumental means. The Father spoke it, the Word made it so.

Jesus the MAN is mediator between GOD AND MAN. John says that it is ANTICHRISTIAN to deny that Jesus as the MESSIAH was fully FLESH.
And fully God.
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
Re: You have nothing...

Quote them please,.....
A hypocrite is one who doesn't live accordingly and claim they are perfect,sinless and all knowing,
am not..!!!
You deny The Trinity....and then you turn around and use Trinitarian renderings for your rejection of it.

This is hypocrisy at its best.

Ignorant hypocrisy...




Also explain how this can happen?
How does that 'simple logic' work?that sounds advanced and beyond man's logic to me.And i have never seen a single Christian who says they understand the Godhead well enough..because its beyond logic.
Can you explain more clearly?, since you avoided many other things i pointed out with Holy Scripture unless you are going to explain it clearly in another post following this..

All scripture supports The Trinity.

It would be easier for you to attempt to locate ONE verse which you think does not.

You cannot do it...
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
614
113
70
Alabama
What is it that needs to be explained exactly? Just compare it with the rest of scripture. There is nothing wrong with the grammatical structure of John 1
There is a great deal to explain. I do not need to compare John 1:1 to any other text to understand it. Truth is in the grammatical structure of the text. The text says that the Word was God. Are you taking the position that Jesus is not the subject of John 1, that the Word is not God, or are you going to continue you nonsensical assertion that God does not mean God.