Talking against the law is dangerous

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
would you people STOP saying we are against the law. or saying we believe that that every jot and tittle has been done away with.

for every time you do this you continue to prove you do not understand a word we say. how can you sit there and judge us when you continually bear false witness against us because of your ignorance or outright refusal to understand what we believe.

the law still is in effect. 100 %. and every day people are being brought by that very same law to the salvation purchased with the blood of Christ. The schoolmaster continues to do its job, and it will until this heaven and earth pass away and there is no more need of it.

Do you think we are going to be spending an eternity in heaven all being made to be under the law God gave as a curse?

to add.

He saved us from the curse of the law. He did not save us from it only to place us back under the same curse!
 
Mar 4, 2013
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And now because if these verses, some in here have questioned Paul's motives, and sincerity. Mercy sakes.

Acts 24:10-14 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then Paul, after that the governor had beckoned unto him to speak, answered, Forasmuch as I know that thou hast been of many years a judge unto this nation, I do the more cheerfully answer for myself:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
If we read in the remote context we see that Paul what Paul said about the resurrection caused an uproar between the Pharisees and Saduccees. So what exactly do you believe Paul is referencing when he said "after the way which they call heresy"?

I don't know what you mean by "remote context" but it definitely appears that the Jews (Scribes and Pharisees) thought it heresy for Paul to teach the Jews and Gentiles to forsake Moses’ teachings by not being circumcised, and to not live by the religious customs of the Jews. (Acts 21:21)

Then Paul said that in order to show that he was not doing this, have the 4 Jewish men who believed what Paul was teaching, follow through with their Nazarite vow, and shave their heads. (Acts 21:23-24)

As far as the Gentiles who believed, Paul wanted the Pharisees to notice that the Gentiles were to stay away from things offered to idols, drinking blood, eating strangled animals, and sexual promiscuity. (Acts 21:25)

Then as a Jew, Paul associated himself with the 4 Nazarite men who had a vow, and followed through with the ordinances of the Mosaic law. The offering mentioned was not a sacrifice for sin, but rather an offering according to temple worship. (Acts 21:26, Leviticus 7:16, Numbers 6:2-8)

After being arrested, Paul speaks in “tongues” Greek to the Roman soldier and Hebrew to the Jews, in order to show them he was a Jew. Because Hebrew was being spoken they listened to him. (Acts 21:40)

When Paul said that He was called by Jesus to minister to the Gentiles, that was the last straw for the Pharisaical Jews. (Acts 22:21-23)

This is parallel to the mindset of the same people who arrested, and crucified Jesus Christ. But as we all know the accusation was false. (Acts 32:29)

And finally, Paul outwardly states that he has in no way taught against the law of Moses or the prophets, just as Jesus said that nothing would be taken away from the law and the prophets. (Acts 24:14)

The answer to your question is “after the way which they call heresy,”= according with the way they call a sect.

But this I confess unto thee, that according with the way they call a sect, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:


So I have a question that I will answer for all who are reading this.
What have we learned from this story recorded in Acts, and what does the adversary fervently desire within the ranks of the church, (both Jew and Gentile) since the time of the ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ began?

Answer:
To separate the Jew from the Gentile, and separate the testimony of the grace of Jesus Christ from the law and the prophets, endorsing false doctrines of distortion, and railing false accusations toward those that teach of the true grace of Jesus Christ. Sound familiar?

Jesus said He came to divide, (Luke 12:51) and then seems to contradict Himself by saying a house divided against itself cannot stand. (Matthew 12:25) God’s kingdom, being ALL of the Word of God, is not divided, and He didn’t have any part of it crucified. Sin has been crucified pertaining to us, NOT pertaining in any way to His kingdom.
If all the law changed because of the one change of the Priesthood changing to another tribe, the earth we are now standing on doesn’t exist according to the words of Jesus, and the jots, and tittles that have been thrown into never never-land will come back some day soon, like the fire from heaven that destroyed Sodom, and Gomorrah.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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But, What did Paul said about, the ones that accept to be circumcised?
Galatians 5:3

English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.

See not matter how you see it the Law of moses is not for the GENTILES
You need to read the whole bible. He says that you if are circumcised, then you deny Jesus. He also says that if you chose the route of the law then you have already failed. If you are guilty of breaking one law then you have broken the whole law. I am pretty sure I have already posted these verses. I will gladly post them again if you wish to read them. If one is lead by the Holy Spirit there is no law for him. This does mean that he can sin for as Paul says, "We do not sin more so that grace will abound more. How can we who have been freed from sin live in it.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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referring to Post 631
So, you are saying Peter had a hard time understanding Paul because Paul used the Torah.
I didn't see where she mentioned Peter having a hard time understanding Paul. I think Peter didn't comprehend until he fell in a trance and heard God say "unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." Acts 10:15 (KJV)

It is evident that this was directly referring to the non Jews. And Paul ministers the same.

Romans 2:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

To the Jew first is OT, and the non believing Jews wanted it to stay that way because of their unbelief. Both Paul and Peter spoke the same thing after Peter had this experience.

Read post 639 for a more detailed description of this controversy where Paul is arrested. Some would say that Paul is riding both sides of the fence because they want to claim this division appropriate according to God's will.
 
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Timeline

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Mar 20, 2014
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You need to read the whole bible. He says that you if are circumcised, then you deny Jesus. He also says that if you chose the route of the law then you have already failed. If you are guilty of breaking one law then you have broken the whole law. I am pretty sure I have already posted these verses. I will gladly post them again if you wish to read them. If one is lead by the Holy Spirit there is no law for him. This does mean that he can sin for as Paul says, "We do not sin more so that grace will abound more. How can we who have been freed from sin live in it.
Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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referring to Post 631

I didn't see where she mentioned Peter having a hard time understanding Paul. I think Peter didn't comprehend until he fell in a trance and heard God say "unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." Acts 10:15 (KJV)

It is evident that this was directly referring to the non Jews. And Paul ministers the same.

Romans 2:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

To the Jew first is OT, and the non believing Jews wanted it to stay that way because of their unbelief. Both Paul and Peter spoke the same thing after Peter had this experience.

Read post 639 for a more detailed description of this controversy where Paul is arrested. Some would say that Paul is riding both sides of the fence because they want to claim this division appropriate according to God's will.

I am pretty sure she was referring to 2 Peter 3:16 (as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.), but I will reread a see what I missed.

I will go ahead and ask, just in case I'm confused. Isn't the old testament the same as the Torah. I read somewhere recently that it only includes the Law (the first five), but I have always thought that it was the entire Old Testament.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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You need to read the whole bible. He says that you if are circumcised, then you deny Jesus. He also says that if you chose the route of the law then you have already failed. If you are guilty of breaking one law then you have broken the whole law. I am pretty sure I have already posted these verses. I will gladly post them again if you wish to read them. If one is lead by the Holy Spirit there is no law for him. This does mean that he can sin for as Paul says, "We do not sin more so that grace will abound more. How can we who have been freed from sin live in it.
That's right. All of us need to read the whole Bible.

Philippians 3:4-5 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

It is amazing, that through Christ, even women can be circumcised these days, the physical law being the foundation of the spiritual. Without recognizing the law God gave to Moses, in this respect, we would not even be talking about circumcision. So by talking against the physical law, we are also talking against its spiritual concept of the truth in Christ.

Colossians 2:9-11 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

I see by reading the whole Bible, that the law God gave to Moses is first in mentioning the New Testament concept of circumcision. It's just like the law of love concept.

Deuteronomy 10:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Deuteronomy 6:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Just because it was endorsed then doesn't mean it's different now. Deuteronomy is a good law book.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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So you believe that circumcision of the heart involves some serious surgery. Or do actually realize that he is saying rid yourself of fleshly pursuits. And to love God and one another.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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I will go ahead and ask, just in case I'm confused. Isn't the old testament the same as the Torah. I read somewhere recently that it only includes the Law (the first five), but I have always thought that it was the entire Old Testament.
"Torah" is our Pentateuch as I understand. Then one has to see if "torah" is different than "Torah" being capital or low case first letter. Low case "torah" is the "law" in general. Tanahk is what we call the prophets.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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So you believe that circumcision of the heart involves some serious surgery. Or do actually realize that he is saying rid yourself of fleshly pursuits. And to love God and one another.
All of the above...........with "serious surgery" of the heart. We surely need a great physician. ;)

Mark 2:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The law giver was, and is the doctor. Colossians 1:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
 
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Timeline

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Mar 20, 2014
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What planet are you living on? LOL:p
I do take the six days of creation literally, but I think it represents more. Notice that on the second day that the waters were separated up and down, and the expanse (called heaven) appeared. I believe this represents the separation than physically began with Jacob and his sons (or Abraham, if you like). They were lifted, so speak, above everyone else thus creating an expanse between God's people and not God's people. The only way to cross this expanse, that I know of, was to be a slave to one of the Israelites and for them to except you. Jesus broke this expanse, wouldn't you agree. Now, under the new heaven and earth you can decide to be one of God's children. Yes, I believe all the days of creation stand for a much longer period of time. No, I don't think it is intended to determine when God will end the world.

You can just laugh if you want, it's okay.

I would like to add that I think Jesus put an end to the regular sacrifice by becoming the ultimate sacrifice. But that's another subject.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You need to read the whole bible. He says that you if are circumcised, then you deny Jesus. He also says that if you chose the route of the law then you have already failed. If you are guilty of breaking one law then you have broken the whole law. I am pretty sure I have already posted these verses. I will gladly post them again if you wish to read them. If one is lead by the Holy Spirit there is no law for him. This does mean that he can sin for as Paul says, "We do not sin more so that grace will abound more. How can we who have been freed from sin live in it.
amen.

Those who truly understand and comprehend what they have been freed from would not live in it. Only those who do not understand would still eat their vomit (dogs)
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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The earth and heavens mentioned here have passed away? How many earths and heavens are there? Am I on a different planet, or are you?
If the law hasn't changed then we are not a children of God, unless you are a Jew - and following the law. Stoned anyone recently? The law requires you to if.....
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am pretty sure she was referring to 2 Peter 3:16 (as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.), but I will reread a see what I missed.

I will go ahead and ask, just in case I'm confused. Isn't the old testament the same as the Torah. I read somewhere recently that it only includes the Law (the first five), but I have always thought that it was the entire Old Testament.
the literal meaning of the word would include all the law and prophets.

but the jews call it something differnt I believe
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
the literal meaning of the word would include all the law and prophets.

but the jews call it something differnt I believe
the word torah means instruction or teaching.

Since ALL of the word of God is his instruction manual for us, to teach us, The whole word of God literally would be called the torah
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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"Torah" is our Pentateuch as I understand. Then one has to see if "torah" is different than "Torah" being capital or low case first letter. Low case "torah" is the "law" in general. Tanahk is what we call the prophets.
Are you a Jew? If you are and/or know a lot about Jewish history, I some questions for you.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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I am a little confused...the ones arguing for circumcision...are y'all arguing that we should be physically circumcised or spiritually. Because if you mean spiritually, then I'm right there with you (at least on that point).
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am a little confused...the ones arguing for circumcision...are y'all arguing that we should be physically circumcised or spiritually. Because if you mean spiritually, then I'm right there with you (at least on that point).
I do not think anyone is arguing for the physical.

The argument is should we follow the law or not. and are we still under the law

if your going to follow the law, As Paul said, your indebted to keep it all. Which means physical as well. Not the watered down verson these people want us to follow.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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I do take the six days of creation literally, but I think it represents more. Notice that on the second day that the waters were separated up and down, and the expanse (called heaven) appeared. I believe this represents the separation than physically began with Jacob and his sons (or Abraham, if you like). They were lifted, so speak, above everyone else thus creating an expanse between God's people and not God's people. The only way to cross this expanse, that I know of, was to be a slave to one of the Israelites and for them to except you. Jesus broke this expanse, wouldn't you agree. Now, under the new heaven and earth you can decide to be one of God's children. Yes, I believe all the days of creation stand for a much longer period of time. No, I don't think it is intended to determine when God will end the world.

You can just laugh if you want, it's okay.

I would like to add that I think Jesus put an end to the regular sacrifice by becoming the ultimate sacrifice. But that's another subject.
God divides the waters with an atmosphere, then made a mist to water the ground written in Genesis 1:6-8. While Israel is gathered together, after camping out close to the Red Sea, (according to Exodus 14:2) the Egyptians were in hot pursuit, at precisely the right time, God gives them an escape route through the Red Sea. In Exodus 14:13 we read, “Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD.” While God divides the waters of the Red Sea, the pillar of fire that was once in front of them goes behind them to keep the Egyptians at bay.
Next day
One mass of earth comes above the surface of the water making it fit for the plants, and seeds to grow that were previously created. Water is now available for the plants to survive. We can compare this to the parable of the sower and the seed in Matthew 13:19-23 depicting the heart as the ground, and the seed as the Word of God.
According to Exodus 15:22, Israel had wandered for three days in the wilderness and found no water. This would be the very same day and month when Jesus rose from the tomb. God showed Moses a tree (relating to the cross of Jesus) and cast the tree into bitter waters and the waters became fit to drink. God said if Israel would obey His instructions (commandments) that they would be free from the diseases that were prevalent in Egypt, representing the world’s values. As Israel continued their trek, and arrived at Elim, they found seven wells, and seventy palm trees. The seven wells represent resurrection, spiritual completeness, and the Father’s perfection. The seventy palm trees represent Egypt’s punishment, and the restoration of Israel, depicting a new birth, or being born again as relating to the conversation between Nicodemus and Jesus. Jesus had another conversation with a Samaritan woman at a well in John 4:7 and 10b, and He says to her, “give me to drink” clarifying that He is the living water. “Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

New Heaven and New earth was not directly after Jesus. According to Peter, when He wrote his Epistle, he and those he was writing to were still waiting. I think we are still waiting with expectation for that to happen.

2 Peter 3:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

A new heaven and earth will come when the marriage of the lamb takes place. The feast of tabernacles then, will be a spiritual experience for the entire world. It becomes a beautiful picture in ones mind and heart.

Zechariah 14:16-19 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
 
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I am a little confused...the ones arguing for circumcision...are y'all arguing that we should be physically circumcised or spiritually. Because if you mean spiritually, then I'm right there with you (at least on that point).
Post # 647 clearly says "spiritual." I'm with you on this one.