AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?

[Angela53510]

I agree with everything you say but not the last sentence because if your not a christian then you would not be bothered what so ever to try to keep his commands and please God, The commands are also about love and not necessarily about just being obedient and following rules the commandment are also about loving your fellow Israelites in Christ.

I feel if you are with God you feel his rejoicing and you know when you have broke one of his commands

I was assuming you were talking about the so-called 10 commandments (instructions is the real translation!) and of course the law of love is written on our hearts.

So what exactly is your title talking about?? I am talking about not having a heart of stone, but a letter written on my heart by the Spirit of the Living God.

"Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? [SUP]2 [/SUP]You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all.[SUP]3 [/SUP]And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, [SUP]6 [/SUP]who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." 2 Cor. 3:1-6

Your comment about me not being a Christian, and having broken a commandment, informs me what I have suspected of you from the beginning of this thread. You are a Judiazer, and you therefore do not understand a relationship with Christ.

I urge you to leave behind this legalism, and find the truth of following the living Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

The Bible is all about Jesus Christ, and following him. Not about following Old Covenant laws.

 

[Karraster]

Karraster, where did you get this from? (and this one of the reasons typing is bad, because I am actually just asking and not attacking)

God's Word will stand forever. The Word also says when Messiah comes, Torah will be sent to the nations, we will keep the Feasts, everything will be restored. Why in the would would anyone let the adversary win by believing God's Laws are done away with? What? Did He institute them, then say nevermind because Christians are privileged? Only to restore them again when Messiah reigns on earth? Is God the same yesterday and today and forevermore?

Here ya go..
Isaiah2
1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in the last days,
that the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established
in the top of the mountains,
and shall be exalted above the hills;
and all nations shall flow unto it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And many people shall go and say,
Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
to the house of the God of Jacob;
and he will teach us of his ways,
and we will walk in his paths:
for out of Zion shall go forth the law,
and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And he shall judge among the nations,
and shall rebuke many people:
and they shall beat their swords into plowshares,
and their spears into pruninghooks:
nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war any more.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]O house of Jacob, come ye,
and let us walk in the light of the Lord. (what is the light of the Lord? Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life


Isaiah 25

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And in this mountain shall the Lord of hosts make unto all people
a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees,
of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And he will destroy in this mountain
the face of the covering cast over all people,
and the vail that is spread over all nations.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He will swallow up death in victory;
and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces;
and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth:
for the Lord hath spoken it.



Zechariah 14:17
Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 17And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them. 18If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.

 

[phil112]

................Question is this a commandment spoke in the new testament this question anyone can answer..........................

Want to try that in english that I can understand?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have tried to state your position as concisely and clearly as I can. Instead of going into my person character, tell me what I misunderstand about what your side says.

The law is only one aspect of the OT. It was Given to Israel. When God asked Israel to CONFIRM the covenant he made with them, He said this.

Cursed is everyone who does not confirm all the words and obey them.

The law is a covenant, The covenant is a whole. If you break the covenant, you suffer the consequence. Since the agreement was to confirm and obey ALL. it means just breaking one of the commands would make one guilty of the WHOLE law. and thus suffer the consequence (being cursed by God)

Even James confirms this

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

This is what is meant by the terms the sting of the law is death. Or the ministry of death written on stone. For only one person has ever fulfilled the covenant as written, And that was Christ.

so as I said, if you are going to tell someone they must obey the law. you are placing them under a curse, because you telling them to do something no one but Christ has been able to do.

also, as shown, the law was not even complete. it said do not commit adultry, well anyone can do this, but Jesus said if you even look at a woman in lust, you have sinned. how many men can say they have never done this??

so yuo see the second danger of following the law. I have never slept with another woman, So I have obeyed Gods command, When in reality, You have failed to keep the command, we just needed Jesus to explain the command for us, for the command itself was incapable of explaining what it meant.

People are to read the laws of a state, even study them. I even took a refresher course on the driving laws. For one job I had I was required to thoroughly know and keep track of every law of every state in the US regarding payroll. A good portion of scripture is "law". Now, is your position we may not read any law daily, we may never check the written law, or what. "you better study them every day" is not a clear statement of your position or mine.

lol. Ok so your one person, You had to do it for your job, Why do we take refresher courses? the laws change. Has Gods law given moses changed? Well no. but it was inadequate, thats why we have to take the rest of the OT and all the nt to figure out the real commands of God. Because as I showed, The law is inadequate, Not only to make us good people. But to show us all sin. All it can do is lead us to Christ, Because we KNOW we have not confirmed the old covenant. (obeyed ALL words) thus we are under the curse (thus the term schoolmaster)

 

[MidniteWelder]

Amen, In fact in Matt 5. Jesus shows how the ten are not even complete if taken literally.

If taken literally, or if not taken above and beyond my brother?
This is what Jesus said in Matthew 5

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments,
---and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Then took it above and beyond...exceed
Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment

 

[phil112]

Originally Posted by Jda016

I haven't read the whole thread, but are people actually arguing that none of the ten commandments matter anymore? That being a Christian means you can covet your neighbors wife, murder, have idols, etc?
I truly hope such an insidious and false doctrine has not spread in the church.

bump. great post!

It was a stupid post. The concept is loving God with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind. That is the first commandment. The second is to love your neighbor as you love yourself. Do not break those 2 and there is no other commandment in the bible you will ever need to hear.
Covet your neighbor's wife? Not if you love God. Not if you love your neighbor. Murder? Not if you love God. Not if you love your neighbor. Have a false idol? Not if you love God.

It cannot be made more clear. You people are trying to go heaven thru law and not Christ. Do you actually need scripture to tell you where that will send you???????????

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If not taken above and beyond my brother.
This is what Jesus said in Matthew 5

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments,
---and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Then took it above and beyond...exceed
Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment

Yes

He said even the law was inadequate to show us all things.

I call the ten commands Gods law for dummies, He gave us just ten, and we can not even keep them, He did not have to give us every law we would have to obey to save ourselves. All he had to do is chose ten.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It was a stupid post. The concept is loving God with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind. That is the first commandment. The second is to love your neighbor as you love yourself. Do not break those 2 and there is no other commandment in the bible you will ever need to hear.
Covet your neighbor's wife? Not if you love God. Not if you love your neighbor. Murder? Not if you love God. Not if you love your neighbor. Have a false idol? Not if you love God.

It cannot be made more clear. You people are trying to go heaven thru law and not Christ. Do you actually need scripture to tell you where that will send you???????????

Sadly I think they are at the point they do not care. their pride is blinding them to anything else.

 

[danschance]

Sadly I think they are at the point they do not care. their pride is blinding them to anything else.

I think it is a spiritual bondage issue. If you go after aberrant theology God gives you a strong delusion as punishment. The only way back to good standing with God is to repent of accepting the false theology. Not an easy thing to do when you just "know" it is "right".

 

[MidniteWelder]

Yes

He said even the law was inadequate to show us all things.

I call the ten commands Gods law for dummies, He gave us just ten, and we can not even keep them, He did not have to give us every law we would have to obey to save ourselves. All he had to do is chose ten.

Yeah, I agree here.
And whats worse is for some he had to simplify it even further after they kept badgering him.
As if 10 were too many.

Almost as if...ok how about 2 ? is that good?

just two
Love the lord your god and your neighbor as yourself
He had to simplify it for people who wanted it so simple they just could not mess it up
just 2
and the 2 if followed would allow one to keep the ten.

he had to build precept upon precept, by narrowing it down to 2 for the simple minded.

But then again we see he marvels at some by asking
"how long will the simple minded love their simple ways."

 

[Karraster]

Exodus 14:17 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.


We have a shadow of the spiritual mountain.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For you have not come to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]a mountain[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words which [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]sound was such that[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them. For they could not bear the command, "IF EVEN A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT WILL BE STONED." And so terrible was the sight, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]that[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Moses said, "I AM FULL OF FEAR and trembling." [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif](Hebrews 12:18-21 NASB)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Now we have come to the reality—Mount Zion.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel. See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape who turn away from Him who warns from heaven. (Hebrews 12:22-25 NASB)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how will we escape who have all of the benefits of the reality in Pentecost, “for our God is a consuming fire.” (Hebrews 12:29 NASB)


[/FONT]

 

[phil112]

.......................He had to simplify it for people who wanted it so simple they just could not mess it up......................he had to build precept upon precept, by narrowing it down to 2 for the simple minded.....................

That is a pretty insulting way of saying something, if you meant it the way you worded it. karraster liked it, so she must agree. You really think the jews were smarter than people today? That they had a "more complex mind" than some of us "simple minded" folks? That the only way God could get it thru to us poor low I.Q. gentiles was to simplify it?
He "narrowed it down to 2" because that is all He ever wanted His followers to do. That was His plan from day one, and He "had to simplify it" for the jews because they could not comprehend the sacrifice Christ made for us. They had to have it given to them in numerated steps to follow, because that is the simple way.

 

[Jda016]

Well, judging from the comments from my little post, I am glad I stayed clear of this thread.

geeze I didn't realize a Christian forum could be such a minefield!

 

[Timeline]

I haven't read the whole thread, but are people actually arguing that none of the ten commandments matter anymore? That being a Christian means you can covet your neighbors wife, murder, have idols, etc?

I truly hope such an insidious and false doctrine has not spread in the church.

No that is not what we are saying. We are saying that if you are led by the Holy Spirit you are not under the law. This does not mean that you can sin. First of all, you must understand that the law is not limited to the Ten Commandments. We are not under the law. But if someone is led by the Holy Spirit then you are doing God's will. I guess the big question is are we really being led by the Holy Spirit. This, I think, is the problem. Some think that they are following the Holy Spirit, but are not. This a general statement and is not directed to anyone on this thread.

 

[Timeline]

1. Who said God was going to restore them? Is he going to re-institude blood sacrifice and stoning?
2. Who said they still will not be just as active, leading people to the king then as it does today?

One of these days you people may start to listen to what people are saying, and stop your silly false accusations.

But I know. that takes humility, One thing you will see from LAWyers, Very few have any humility,

when it comes to the law there are only two things which can occure.

Pride - I follow the law. so I am in Gods grace, and will be l blessed greatly by him because I am such a good person.

Humility - I can;t keep Gods moral objective, I still fail. And everything I recieve from God is through his mercy and grace, And I do not deserve any of it.

You do realize I was asking her where she got that information from, right? I copied and pasted and for some reason (probably because I did it wrong) it did show up as a quote.

 

[Timeline]

WELCOME TO FAMILY FEUD:

Name one thing "YOU" did to deserve eternal life:

Trust in Jesus...because I am not worthy.

 

[Kerry]

No that is not what we are saying. We are saying that if you are led by the Holy Spirit you are not under the law. This does not mean that you can sin. First of all, you must understand that the law is not limited to the Ten Commandments. We are not under the law. But if someone is led by the Holy Spirit then you are doing God's will. I guess the big question is are we really being led by the Holy Spirit. This, I think, is the problem. Some think that they are following the Holy Spirit, but are not. This a general statement and is not directed to anyone on this thread.

The question is where is your faith. Is your faith in keeping law or is it in the cross? The only that can save, deliver, set free, or fix your problem is the cross and nothing else. Law cannot and will not do it. The purpose of the law was to define sin and gave no cure for it. We need the cross and faith in the cross enables the holy Spirit to work in us, giving us the ability to hold to the moral code of God as best we can. This is why Jesus said " many will say I have danced for you and done this for you" and Jesus will say" depart from you worker of iniquity for I never knew you". Faith must be in the cross and nothing else.

 

[Timeline]

Can i ask you what you think of this passage here you put. ? obviously this is a jew talking about Jesus, i have never read this before But after reading i sense that theese people may be the Jews who by the looks of things are the ones still offended from being called hypocrites ? Because the way im seeing spiritualy is those who say Jesus is a curse are not following his word

Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”—

1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Paul said both. My understanding is that Jesus took on all sin by hanging on a tree (which was a curse under the law) but Jesus is not accursed because he the righteous Son of God.

 

[Karraster]

That is a pretty insulting way of saying something, if you meant it the way you worded it. karraster liked it, so she must agree. You really think the jews were smarter than people today? That they had a "more complex mind" than some of us "simple minded" folks? That the only way God could get it thru to us poor low I.Q. gentiles was to simplify it?
He "narrowed it down to 2" because that is all He ever wanted His followers to do. That was His plan from day one, and He "had to simplify it" for the jews because they could not comprehend the sacrifice Christ made for us. They had to have it given to them in numerated steps to follow, because that is the simple way.

phil dear, quit flattering me so... always thinkin of me...you know flattery can spoil a person..

God's design was for the Jews to be blinded for our sakes (the great mystery). Aren't you at all grateful? It was by way of the Jew that we have scripture, you did know that didn't you? Anyhow, a grateful heart is a happy heart I always say.

As far as smart or dumb, or well stupid if you prefer to say..the Bible says for those who do not love truth, God will send them a strong delusion. Now, examining these words from Hebrew, it paints a better picture. If one does not search the scriptures with all diligence to find truth, asking God for truth, that person may be sent a stronghold, or strong delusion. Implying, something like being sent home to familiar surroundings where you feel comfortable, and just stay there.

Now this is just a bit of trivia, take it for what it's worth...
In America, for example, Bibles are available at dime stores I'm told, and for the price of 1 dollar. You'd think there would be Bibles in every home. Not so, those who love the Word and study tend to "collect" Bibles, all versions, commentaries, etc. these are they which account for the high number of sales in Bibles. These do not consist of the entire population, however, for there are more homes without Bibles than homes with Bibles. Now while that may be debatable, I wouldn't. Contrast that with Torah. The Torah Scroll starts around $2000 up to priceless. While our American Bibles gather dust in the bottom of the book case, their Torah is cherished. Imagine spending an entire day just studying font size of a single word, contemplate a certain letter...the lilt of each stroke.every mark ,.trying to understand what YHWY was speaking, what He wanted man to know, and how to live.

Who loves God the more? What man has such knowledge to answer? I would certainly be remiss..to say.

 

[Karraster]

You do realize I was asking her where she got that information from, right? I copied and pasted and for some reason (probably because I did it wrong) it did show up as a quote.

#482 in case you missed it, my answer to your question.