AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?

[MidniteWelder]

That is a pretty insulting way of saying something, if you meant it the way you worded it. karraster liked it, so she must agree. You really think the jews were smarter than people today?

Who is it insulting to...the creator or the created?
The Jews should have been smarter if Jesus was right there talking to them face to face.
As well how could they comprehend the sacrifice Christ made if he hadn't made it yet?
How insulting do you find it must have been to God to have to revert back to the original two things he wanted from us in the first place.
Why did God though issue ten if all he meant was two?
Does God waste his breath?
Does God ever say I know that's what I said but that's not what i meant?
Many things need to be simplified by reverting back until a common ground or link can be found in order to move forward again.
Intelligence unfortunately is not proportional to ones actions.
Many intelligent people can do stupid things.
But many less unintelligent people can do smart things.
For instance...the bibles definition of stupid can be found in proverbs.

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but whoever hates correction is stupid.

If one hates the discipline and correction of the Lord according to the bible,,, such a person is yes, defined as stupid.
Stupid is as stupid does...even Forest Gump knew this.
If the words of the bible itself seems insulting, why does anyone read it?
Actually, many skip over those parts they don't like don't they.
Too much truth for them to handle isn't it?
Hopefully those who can handle it seek discipline, correction and truth from it instead of wanting to be coddled like children still feeding off their mothers breast.
I've done stupid things and can admit it.
And it is true that it has always been if I didn't listen to God.
Intelligence has little to do with obedience and often more to do with rebellious thinking or behavior.
I can't speak for Karraster but perhaps she see's faithful obedience without questioning God as wise.
I know I do. Because anytime I had questioned God or went off on my own, I was corrected for acting stupidly.

Really

Can you not almost see it as Father coming down to talk to his children
"Ok all you have to do is eat the rest of your peas and brush your teeth then I'll read you a story.

Don't worry about cleaning your room for now We can work on the rest tomorrow.
Ok you know little Johnny, well dont hate him because he broke your toy ok.
And little suzie, well I understand she put gum in your hair but try and be nice to her next time you see her alright...its probably what she really needs more than anything.
We'll work on more as needed.
You remember when you said you dont want me to be your dad anymore because I spanked you.
Well I spanked you because I love you, someday you will understand but from now on I'll talk with you more if you're willing to listen."

That's about what Jesus had to do.

 

[Timeline]

Yes

He said even the law was inadequate to show us all things.

I call the ten commands Gods law for dummies, He gave us just ten, and we can not even keep them, He did not have to give us every law we would have to obey to save ourselves. All he had to do is chose ten.

Can't keep ten? Adam and Eve couldn't even keep one. And we probably wouldn't have either. Can't eat from which tree...Oh, that looks good. Flesh is so week. That is why we are not under the law, because God loves us.

 

[Grandpa]

Only Jesus.

Amen, and amen.

 

[Grandpa]

Exodus 14:17 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.


We have a shadow of the spiritual mountain.

For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words which sound was such that those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them. For they could not bear the command, "IF EVEN A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT WILL BE STONED." And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, "I AM FULL OF FEAR and trembling." (Hebrews 12:18-21 NASB)
Now we have come to the reality—Mount Zion.

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel. See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape who turn away from Him who warns from heaven. (Hebrews 12:22-25 NASB)
If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how will we escape who have all of the benefits of the reality in Pentecost, “for our God is a consuming fire.” (Hebrews 12:29 NASB)

Isn't God amazing?

 

[Karraster]

Isn't God amazing?

Too amazing for words! Imagine, meeting our Creator some day...My poor little brain cannot fathom His greatness!

 

[Timeline]

Here ya go..
Isaiah2
1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in the last days,
that the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established
in the top of the mountains,
and shall be exalted above the hills;
and all nations shall flow unto it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And many people shall go and say,
Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
to the house of the God of Jacob;
and he will teach us of his ways,
and we will walk in his paths:
for out of Zion shall go forth the law,
and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And he shall judge among the nations,
and shall rebuke many people:
and they shall beat their swords into plowshares,
and their spears into pruninghooks:
nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war any more.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]O house of Jacob, come ye,
and let us walk in the light of the Lord. (what is the light of the Lord? Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life


Isaiah 25

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And in this mountain shall the Lord of hosts make unto all people
a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees,
of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And he will destroy in this mountain
the face of the covering cast over all people,
and the vail that is spread over all nations.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He will swallow up death in victory;
and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces;
and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth:
for the Lord hath spoken it.



Zechariah 14:17
Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 17And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them. 18If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.

I believe that Isaiah 2 is talking about Jesus and the first century with the apostles. Hebrews 1:1-2 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

I believe Isaiah 25:7 is talking about removing the veil of the law (search veil in your bible search engine and read about the veil of the Tabernacle and the veil that Moses wore to cover the glory of things that were fading away - 2 Corinthians 3:7-18 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,[SUP] [/SUP]how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory. Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

As for Zechariah, I must say I will need to do some more study on that. I will not try to tell you that it means anything else until I know what it means myself.

I hope that you feel we are having a civil discussion and I don't think I have been to harsh in any of my statements, but if I have I apologize. After following much of the forum, I would have to say it could be done in a more godly fashion on both sides.

 

[Kerry]

With out the cross we are all doomed. The ten commandments doomed us.

 

[Karraster]

I believe that Isaiah 2 is talking about Jesus and the first century with the apostles. Hebrews 1:1-2 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

I believe Isaiah 25:7 is talking about removing the veil of the law (search veil in your bible search engine and read about the veil of the Tabernacle and the veil that Moses wore to cover the glory of things that were fading away - 2 Corinthians 3:7-18 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory. Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

As for Zechariah, I must say I will need to do some more study on that. I will not try to tell you that it means anything else until I know what it means myself.

I hope that you feel we are having a civil discussion and I don't think I have been to harsh in any of my statements, but if I have I apologize. After following much of the forum, I would have to say it could be done in a more godly fashion on both sides.

I am hooked on prophesy. No, I certainly don't think lil ole me has it all figured out, but wow, I learn something solid, it all fits and you find other scripture that agrees,..didja know Revelations parallels Daniel? and that Revelations is like..the 5th gospel? I just found that out lately, and it's just so amazing how 1 truth will lead to another..but yeah, I have lots more study..

I agree about the arguing.I sorry too, but nah, I don't remember you being out of line..I love to discuss and learn, that's what's fun. Thanks for reply.

 

[Timeline]

I am currently reading the entire book of Zechariah...so it might be awhile. I'm a slow reader. And I will probably have to pray about it and wait before I feel confident about giving an answer.

 

[Karraster]

I am currently reading the entire book of Zechariah...so it might be awhile. I'm a slow reader. And I will probably have to pray about it and wait before I feel confident about giving an answer.

meant to add but was too late, I think the veil reference means we are all blind in our own way. Even if on the right path, it's a journey and we won't be perfect until perfect comes from Jesus. (Paul reference "thru a dark glass") and because that verse says all nations have a veil.

.[SUP]7 [/SUP]And he will destroy in this mountain
the face of the covering cast over all people,
and the vail that is spread over all nations.

 

[Timeline]

I am hooked on prophesy. No, I certainly don't think lil ole me has it all figured out, but wow, I learn something solid, it all fits and you find other scripture that agrees,..didja know Revelations parallels Daniel? and that Revelations is like..the 5th gospel? I just found that out lately, and it's just so amazing how 1 truth will lead to another..but yeah, I have lots more study..

I agree about the arguing.I sorry too, but nah, I don't remember you being out of line..I love to discuss and learn, that's what's fun. Thanks for reply.

Yeah, I did know about Daniel and Revelations. As a matter of fact it seems interesting to me that the beasts of Daniel seem to have merged to form the beast of Rev 13 except it had not gained the one horn that pulled up three of the first horns.

 

[Karraster]

isn't it cool how Daniel is looking forward and John is looking back..a reverse description. Gee, hope I'm not getting my prophets mixed up..

 

[Timeline]

I am currently reading the entire book of Zechariah...so it might be awhile. I'm a slow reader. And I will probably have to pray about it and wait before I feel confident about giving an answer.

There seems to be more of Zechariah in Revelation than I recall: Red horse and rider(Rev 4:4); Four horns (maybe?); Measuring line/rod (Rev 21:15); Four winds (Rev 7:1); Zechariah says daughter of Babylon while Revelation says Babylon; Lampstand (Rev 1:20 and Rev 2:5); two olive trees (Rev 11:4); - And I am just to chapter 5.

 

[Karraster]

The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse



This was from a member a while back. I found it interesting.

 

[Karraster]

So here we have Yeshua the Messiah’s own words -- spoken at the first going forth of the gospel -- that the IMMEDIATE EFFECT would be antagonism, variance and deadly strife. In other words, THE RED HORSE WAS TO FOLLOW HARD ON THE HEELS OF THE WHITE HORSE! And then, to sum up the whole matter into a single vivid sentence, Yeshua draws a word picture which astonishingly agrees with this detail of the picture of the rider on the red horse, saying: “Think not that I am come to send peace on the earth; I CAME NOT TO SEND PEACE, BUT A SWORD” (v.34). When we compare these words with those of the vision in Revelation 6:4, “power was given him TO TAKE PEACE FROM THE EARTH...and there was given him A GREAT SWORD,” we can’t help but come to the conclusion that this apparent similarity of language is designed to reveal to us that the prophecy and the vision refer to the same thing. Not only that but Yeshua’s next words explain the figurative expression “a sword” -- as follows: exerpt from above link

 

[Timeline]

Karraster, this is a bit off the subject but according to my calculations that when God punished Judah he counted the Sabbaths of the land all the way back to Adam.

Law given
Lev 25:8 ‘You are also to count off seven Sabbaths of years for yourself, seven times seven years, so that you have the time of the seven Sabbaths of years, namely, forty-nine years. You shall then sound a ram’s horn abroad on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the day of atonement you shall sound a horn all through your land. You shall thus consecrate the fiftieth year and proclaim a release through the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you, and each of you shall return to his own property, and each of you shall return to his family. You shall have the fiftieth year as a jubilee; you shall not sow, nor reap its aftergrowth, nor gather in from its untrimmed vines. For it is a jubilee; it shall be holy to you. You shall eat its crops out of the field.

Punishment if not followed
Lev 26:33 You, however, I will scatter among the nations and will draw out a sword after you, as your land becomes desolate and your cities become waste. ‘Then the land will enjoy its Sabbaths all the days of the desolation, while you are in your enemies’ land; then the land will rest and enjoy its Sabbaths. All the days of its desolation it will observe the rest which it did not observe on your Sabbaths, while you were living on it.

Punishment dealt (the way I see it anyway)
Jer. 25:11 This whole land will be a desolation and a horror, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

So, if I understand correctly, God punished them one year for each of the Sabbaths of the land that they did not keep even before they were given the law. 50 x 70 = 3500 (I believe this prophecy was given in the vicinity of 3546). I just find this interesting and it seems a bit harsh, given they didn't know this law (for more than 2660 years) and were not even "Israelites" for the first 2106+ years.

 

[Karraster]

I think the Sabbath was established in the beginning. I'll have to find my notes on that, but have to go now, tired.

I will say, God is just and perfect. His ways are so far above ours, His understanding we will never reach, anything, everything He does has a purpose, and for His pleasure and glory. We must trust in Him, for He always does the most perfect thing.

Enjoyed the convo, perhaps again sometime?

 

[Timeline]

The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse



This was from a member a while back. I found it interesting.

One of the things that I commonly hear people say is that the message has not gone out into all of the world and this has caused them to think that we are still waiting on things are supposed to happen after the message has gone out to all the world and, of course, the tribulation. Matt 24:9-14 “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

However, I believe Romans 10:14-21 tells us that the news went out to the whole world in the first century.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? [SUP]15 [/SUP]How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!”[SUP]16 [/SUP]However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” [SUP]17 [/SUP]So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

[SUP]18[/SUP]But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have;
“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”


[SUP]19 [/SUP]But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says,
“I will make you jealous by that which is not a nation,
By a nation without understanding will I anger you.”


[SUP]20 [/SUP]And Isaiah is very bold and says,
“I was found by those who did not seek Me,
I became manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”


[SUP]21 [/SUP]But as for Israel He says, “All the day long I have stretched out My hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.”

I do understand that I could be misunderstanding this, but I don't think so.

 

[Timeline]

One of the things that I commonly hear people say is that the message has not gone out into all of the world and this has caused them to think that we are still waiting on things are supposed to happen after the message has gone out to all the world and, of course, the tribulation. Matt 24:9-14 “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

However, I believe Romans 10:14-21 tells us that the news went out to the whole world in the first century.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? [SUP]15 [/SUP]How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!”[SUP]16 [/SUP]However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” [SUP]17 [/SUP]So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

[SUP]18[/SUP]But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have;
“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”


[SUP]19 [/SUP]But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says,
“I will make you jealous by that which is not a nation,
By a nation without understanding will I anger you.”


[SUP]20 [/SUP]And Isaiah is very bold and says,
“I was found by those who did not seek Me,
I became manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”


[SUP]21 [/SUP]But as for Israel He says, “All the day long I have stretched out My hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.”

I do understand that I could be misunderstanding this, but I don't think so.

John also says in Rev 1:9-11[SUP] [/SUP]I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day (I have read that this would more accurately be Imperial Day) , and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet, saying, “Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”

I also realize that many people have a problem with John being in Patmos (in regards to a very early writing of Revelation), but this does not present as much of a problem as people make it (I don't think).

 

[Timeline]

I think the Sabbath was established in the beginning. I'll have to find my notes on that, but have to go now, tired.

I will say, God is just and perfect. His ways are so far above ours, His understanding we will never reach, anything, everything He does has a purpose, and for His pleasure and glory. We must trust in Him, for He always does the most perfect thing.

Enjoyed the convo, perhaps again sometime?

No, not the Sabbath. The Sabbath of the land (Lev 25). Good night.