AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?

[ivanc0]

With out the cross we are all doomed. The ten commandments doomed us.

You Right, the ten commandments are not adequate for our time and is not replacement for the grace that came from Jesus.

see one Law/ dot not commit adultery! .....but if you single and meet only singles you can not sin against this law, even if you fornicate.
But with the grace even the thought of carnal desires will take us apart of the grace!

This simple example show why the law was fulfilled and now Jesus wants Us to live the Grace.

 

[JaumeJ]

In past studies, I have read how there were laws until Moses which were maintained by oral tradition.

Some came all the way from Adam, and they were continued from Noah. There are those who refer to the latter as Noahic laws, which I think is unnecessary and confuses some who learn from the Word, itself.

I am happy making reference to all of them in one lump as oral tradition laws. It is possible, for the sake of order, much of what was written as statutes, ordinaces and commandments at the hand of Moses is not more or less than putting all aright.

Snce I am converted by the Lamb of Yahweh to the faith of Abraham, and not enjoying the direct and constant influence of our family in the direct line of Abraham, I have not heard any oral tradition from that quarter.
.
Also t is not necessary for we have Moses who is complemented by Yeshua.

The Sabbath of the Lord was observed before Moses as being remembered and kept separated(holy) I would appreciate any input others may have on this.........thanks.

I think the Sabbath was established in the beginning. I'll have to find my notes on that, but have to go now, tired.

I will say, God is just and perfect. His ways are so far above ours, His understanding we will never reach, anything, everything He does has a purpose, and for His pleasure and glory. We must trust in Him, for He always does the most perfect thing.

Enjoyed the convo, perhaps again sometime?

 

[Zinzerio]

I was assuming you were talking about the so-called 10 commandments (instructions is the real translation!) and of course the law of love is written on our hearts.

So what exactly is your title talking about?? I am talking about not having a heart of stone, but a letter written on my heart by the Spirit of the Living God.

"Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? [SUP]2 [/SUP]You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all.[SUP]3 [/SUP]And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, [SUP]6 [/SUP]who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." 2 Cor. 3:1-6

Your comment about me not being a Christian, and having broken a commandment, informs me what I have suspected of you from the beginning of this thread. You are a Judiazer, and you therefore do not understand a relationship with Christ.

I urge you to leave behind this legalism, and find the truth of following the living Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

The Bible is all about Jesus Christ, and following him. Not about following Old Covenant laws.

So called commandments ? Angela are you are sister in Christ would you like to rephrase that.

I will wash rinse and repeat
Matthew 5:19

New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Angela you are of child of God if you follow this commandment and i would love you to be a child of God and not a jewdaiazer this is why i will not boast as you put it you said im trying to commend myself ? a child of God does not boast. all glory to God amen Wash rinse repeat.

Im sorry you have took my thread as me being a judaiazer and me trying to knock Christians ?
no that is not the case from me it is my intentions to have a good Natured DISCUSSION with children of God.
I welcome you as a sister in christ always and wish you peace and happiness. God bless

 

[presidente]

The tambourine or timbrel, a hoop of bells over which a white skin was stretched, came from Egypt. Miriam used this instrument to accompany the singing and dancing on the shores of the Red Sea (Ex. 15).

There is no reason to think God was upset with Miriam for her tambourine-playing. There were Psalms sung on an instrument of Gather. God chose a harp-player to be king. The harp-player was a man after God's own heart.

The sistrum, according to 2 Sam 6:5, was used by the Israelites and bore the name mena'aneim. It was the same as the Egyptian kemkem which was employed in the cult of Isis. [Re Miriam and Apis]

Worshippers of that pagan goddess drank water, too. Do you drink water? Does that make you an Isis worshipper?

The solemnity celebrated on the occasion of the transferring of the Ark to Sion, as well as the dances of the daughters of Israel at the annual feast of the Lord of Shiloh (Judg 21:21), were similar in thier musical embellishments to Egyptian customs in the liturgy and at parades. As Herodotus reports,women sang the praises of Osiris while likenesses of the gods were born about and, during the festival of Diana at Bubastis,choirs of men and women sang and danced to the beating of drums and the playing of flutes." (Quasten, Johannes, Music and Worship in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, p. 65)

So what? Music is in heaven. Heaven predates idol worship on earth.

 

[RedTent]

So called commandments ? Angela are you are sister in Christ would you like to rephrase that.

I will wash rinse and repeat
Matthew 5:19

New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Angela you are of child of God if you follow this commandment and i would love you to be a child of God and not a jewdaiazer this is why i will not boast as you put it you said im trying to commend myself ? a child of God does not boast. all glory to God amen Wash rinse repeat.

Im sorry you have took my thread as me being a judaiazer and me trying to knock Christians ?
no that is not the case from me it is my intentions to have a good Natured DISCUSSION with children of God.
I welcome you as a sister in christ always and wish you peace and happiness. God bless

The problem comes in with man's definition of Judaizer and God's definition.

I think God's spiritual way of understanding of what scripture says against them is against teaching that the physical ways God has suggested to remind people of spiritual truths takes the place of the truths, themselves.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yeah, I agree here.
And whats worse is for some he had to simplify it even further after they kept badgering him.
As if 10 were too many.

Almost as if...ok how about 2 ? is that good?

just two
Love the lord your god and your neighbor as yourself
He had to simplify it for people who wanted it so simple they just could not mess it up
just 2
and the 2 if followed would allow one to keep the ten.

he had to build precept upon precept, by narrowing it down to 2 for the simple minded.

But then again we see he marvels at some by asking
"how long will the simple minded love their simple ways."

I do not think he tried to simplify it, i think he just showed us how to actually fulfill the commands. People were focused on the commands themselves, and trying to do them. he was showing them, you want to do them, this is how. Love (also called the law of love)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No that is not what we are saying. We are saying that if you are led by the Holy Spirit you are not under the law. This does not mean that you can sin. First of all, you must understand that the law is not limited to the Ten Commandments. We are not under the law. But if someone is led by the Holy Spirit then you are doing God's will. I guess the big question is are we really being led by the Holy Spirit. This, I think, is the problem. Some think that they are following the Holy Spirit, but are not. This a general statement and is not directed to anyone on this thread.

I agree.

The HS is going to teach us to love, By showing us Gods love, We are only going to be in two states at any time in our lives and any situation.

Chose to love, or chose to be carnal (self) If we chose the first, we will fulfill God plan in our life. If we chose the second, We will be in sin. It does not matter what we are doing. It could be a good deed, or following a command of God, But still sin, because it is done in a carnal self serving attitude.. Also called human good.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You do realize I was asking her where she got that information from, right? I copied and pasted and for some reason (probably because I did it wrong) it did show up as a quote.

oh, no I did not see this, sorry, I guess my questions should be directed to her then, But she supposedly has run away, and not responding to me anymore..

Oh well. The truth still hurts I guess

 

[phil112]

I do not think he tried to simplify it, i think he just showed us how to actually fulfill the commands. People were focused on the commands themselves, and trying to do them. he was showing them, you want to do them, this is how. Love (also called the law of love)

Pretty good post, but I will pick at it just a tad, if you don't mind.
I never read the "law of love" in the bible. What it is, is "the perfect law of liberty"

But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Pretty good post, but I will pick at it just a tad, if you don't mind.
I never read the "law of love" in the bible. What it is, is "the perfect law of liberty"

I can go with this. I probably made the term up myself. Considering it is all about love.

Liberty works. It means all things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. It is one thing for a person to be given a set of rules, and then he follow them, It is a far other thing for a person to be given liberty, and follow them without being told he has to follow them.

This is what God wants from us. It is much more honorable and pleasing to God for us to chose to follow his spirit in love, Then just follow a set of rules and regulations. Which 99.9 % of the time, your doing these rules in a self centered way.

 

[Grandpa]

Pretty good post, but I will pick at it just a tad, if you don't mind.
I never read the "law of love" in the bible. What it is, is "the perfect law of liberty"

The law of the spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[Zinzerio]

I can go with this. I probably made the term up myself. Considering it is all about love.

Liberty works. It means all things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. It is one thing for a person to be given a set of rules, and then he follow them, It is a far other thing for a person to be given liberty, and follow them without being told he has to follow them.

This is what God wants from us. It is much more honorable and pleasing to God for us to chose to follow his spirit in love, Then just follow a set of rules and regulations. Which 99.9 % of the time, your doing these rules in a self centered way.

Good post this is also my understanding I believe that it is not just about being obedient and following rules for self purpose it is about showing your love for God when find your self in a tricky situation with whoever and what ever the situation may be.

 

[Zinzerio]

The problem comes in with man's definition of Judaizer and God's definition.

I think God's spiritual way of understanding of what scripture says against them is against teaching that the physical ways God has suggested to remind people of spiritual truths takes the place of the truths, themselves.

Yes i understand and i see that but are we not all Jews until we become light in Burden and except the truth

 

[Zinzerio]

Can't keep ten? Adam and Eve couldn't even keep one. And we probably wouldn't have either. Can't eat from which tree...Oh, that looks good. Flesh is so week. That is why we are not under the law, because God loves us.

Just because adam couldnt keep them does not mean you can not either ? I am sure after God spoke to them Adam and eve put it right with God by being obedient and more respectful to his word ? Unless you want to read all through genesis to see if they sinned again after that be my guest but i think it would be quite sad to do that. ?

 

[Zinzerio]

Want to try that in english that I can understand?

Certainly
[h=3]Matthew 18:10-14[/h]New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[h=3]The parable of the wandering sheep[/h][SUP]10 [/SUP]‘See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven. [SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]12 [/SUP]‘What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? [SUP]13 [/SUP]And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. [SUP]14 [/SUP]In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.

 

[Zinzerio]

So here we have Yeshua the Messiah’s own words -- spoken at the first going forth of the gospel -- that the IMMEDIATE EFFECT would be antagonism, variance and deadly strife. In other words, THE RED HORSE WAS TO FOLLOW HARD ON THE HEELS OF THE WHITE HORSE! And then, to sum up the whole matter into a single vivid sentence, Yeshua draws a word picture which astonishingly agrees with this detail of the picture of the rider on the red horse, saying: “Think not that I am come to send peace on the earth; I CAME NOT TO SEND PEACE, BUT A SWORD” (v.34). When we compare these words with those of the vision in Revelation 6:4, “power was given him TO TAKE PEACE FROM THE EARTH...and there was given him A GREAT SWORD,” we can’t help but come to the conclusion that this apparent similarity of language is designed to reveal to us that the prophecy and the vision refer to the same thing. Not only that but Yeshua’s next words explain the figurative expression “a sword” -- as follows: exerpt from above link

amen and this reminds me so much of what it is like to be a child of God, I think that this passage that sayS i have come to bring a sword means when my love is in you my love will bring a sword to the people who behave like the JEWS DID when they where told to practice what they preach, WHICH BRINGS TO THIS PASSAGE I think this passage clearly point that lord was not happy because people where not following his commandment, and as a few people have already pointed following the commandment is not just about your self its about loving the lord and others.
[h=3]Matthew 23:23-28[/h]New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[SUP]23 [/SUP]‘Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices – mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law – justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practised the latter, without neglecting the former. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]‘Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]‘Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. [SUP]28 [/SUP]In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

you see the phrase whitewashed it is the same as a wall when you paint it if you don't clean before hand the dirt will just come back through

 

[MsLimpet]

The KJV Version:

Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. [FONT=&quot]11[/FONT] For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. [FONT=&quot]12[/FONT] How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? [FONT=&quot]13[/FONT] And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. [FONT=&quot]14[/FONT] Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

12-14 If any man have a hundred sheep.—This parable is also found in Luke 15:4-10. It shows the value that Jesus placed on a human soul. He came to seek and to save the lost, if there is not much value to be placed on a human soul, then Jesus' mission was not worth very much. If we deem his mission to earth very valuable, we must place a very high estimate on the soul. Jesus makes no difference in his estimation of a soul, the least of his disciples is as valuable and precious in his sight as the most renowned.

The Pharisees and other religious leaders of that day disregarded the poor, the disgraced, and degraded wretches of human society. They were spoken of as "publicans and sinners" and "publicans and harlots." So Jesus here shows by the parable of the lost sheep the care that should be given to each one. If one has a flock of a hundred sheep and one is lost, the shepherd leaves the ninety-nine and goes to find the one that has gone astray. When it is found, he rejoiceth over it more than the ninety-nine "which have not gone astray." This does not mean that he values the one greater than he does the ninety-nine; but to restore the one to the flock gives him greater joy for the occasion than the remainder of the flock. Jesus makes his own application of this parable when he says, "Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish." By implication Jesus teaches that it is possible for those who have become his "little ones" to perish. It is not God's will that any should perish. (Ezek. 33:11; 2 Pet. 3:9.) As it is not the will of the shepherd that one of the flock should perish, so it is not the will of our Father that even the least of his disciples perish.

 

[Zinzerio]

Well, judging from the comments from my little post, I am glad I stayed clear of this thread.

geeze I didn't realize a Christian forum could be such a minefield!

A lot of people get that perception i have had that to but a child of God does not turn there back on brothers and sister when the going gets tough the tough gets going we come back and we fight for the might until his work is done and we come to some unity,
[h=3]Hebrews 6:10-12[/h]New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. [SUP]11 [/SUP]We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, so that what you hope for may be fully realized. [SUP]12 [/SUP]We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised

 

[Zinzerio]

The KJV Version:

Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

12-14 If any man have a hundred sheep.—This parable is also found in Luke 15:4-10. It shows the value that Jesus placed on a human soul. He came to seek and to save the lost, if there is not much value to be placed on a human soul, then Jesus' mission was not worth very much. If we deem his mission to earth very valuable, we must place a very high estimate on the soul. Jesus makes no difference in his estimation of a soul, the least of his disciples is as valuable and precious in his sight as the most renowned.

The Pharisees and other religious leaders of that day disregarded the poor, the disgraced, and degraded wretches of human society. They were spoken of as "publicans and sinners" and "publicans and harlots." So Jesus here shows by the parable of the lost sheep the care that should be given to each one. If one has a flock of a hundred sheep and one is lost, the shepherd leaves the ninety-nine and goes to find the one that has gone astray. When it is found, he rejoiceth over it more than the ninety-nine "which have not gone astray." This does not mean that he values the one greater than he does the ninety-nine; but to restore the one to the flock gives him greater joy for the occasion than the remainder of the flock. Jesus makes his own application of this parable when he says, "Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish." By implication Jesus teaches that it is possible for those who have become his "little ones" to perish. It is not God's will that any should perish. (Ezek. 33:11; 2 Pet. 3:9.) As it is not the will of the shepherd that one of the flock should perish, so it is not the will of our Father that even the least of his disciples perish.

That would be so if the ninety sheep had the right type of righteousness. i have read many passages and translations and in some passages the word righteousness is changed to respectful which really makes you think .

Like you said the value of persons sole is something one need to be very respectful about and also if the 99 righteouse have been to cruel on that one sheep that went away it is only then they realise how much of mean sheep they have been,
and we know when a lost sheep runs away things can happen it can come into danger and that isnt always the case most of the time the lost is found but we do have to careful in future.

 

[Zinzerio]

A lot of people get that perception i have had that to but a child of God does not turn there back on brothers and sister when the going gets tough the tough gets going we come back and we fight for the might until his work is done and we come to some unity,
Hebrews 6:10-12

New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. [SUP]11 [/SUP]We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, so that what you hope for may be fully realized. [SUP]12 [/SUP]We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised

just a a requote for this passage a s a few have called the good news translation demonic i will show you that it is not.




Hebrews 6:10-12



Good News Translation (GNT)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]God is not unfair. He will not forget the work you did or the love you showed for him in the help you gave and are still giving to other Christians. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Our great desire is that each of you keep up your eagerness to the end, so that the things you hope for will come true. [SUP]12 [/SUP]We do not want you to become lazy, but to be like those who believe and are patient, and so receive what God has promised.
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If you look here the
word people is change to christian