AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?

[KSublett]

Because of musical idolatry of Apis representing Osiris, Isis and Horos, God turned the Israelites over to worship the starry host, gave them kings in His anger and sentenced them to captivity and death. They rejected the ONLY Spiritual covenant made by God in Christ to Abraham. The Law of Moses was to LEGISLATE for the LAWLESS until God could dispose of them.

The Book of The Covenant of Grace was the Abrahamic Covenant.
The Israelites refused to HEAR the Abrahamic Covenant
They rose up in the Musical Idolatry of their old Egyptian SUN worship.
The original TEN COMMANDMENTS were broken and never restated as the PREAMBLE to the Covenant.
God laded them with The Book of The LAW OF MOSES which laws were not good.

Isaiah 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

[haste includes all of the hypocritic arts and crafts: rhetoric, singing, playing which is the RISING UP TO PLAY. Paul in 1 Corinthians 10 called it DEMON WORSHIP.

The festivals were for WARRIOR AGE MALES only. The went to Jerusalem to MUSTER.

Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Nothing in the Mosaic or the Law of the Monarchy which God did not command had anything to do with the spiritual nature. If you rest on the Law you had better not be caught SHOWING PARTIALITY. God is not so petty and infantile that He needs ANYTHING since He owns all of the CATTLE on a thousand hills.

Racial pride is an ugly thing and still plagues the whole world.

John 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake,
He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
John 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time;
the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 

[Karraster]

In past studies, I have read how there were laws until Moses which were maintained by oral tradition.

Some came all the way from Adam, and they were continued from Noah. There are those who refer to the latter as Noahic laws, which I think is unnecessary and confuses some who learn from the Word, itself.

I am happy making reference to all of them in one lump as oral tradition laws. It is possible, for the sake of order, much of what was written as statutes, ordinaces and commandments at the hand of Moses is not more or less than putting all aright.

Snce I am converted by the Lamb of Yahweh to the faith of Abraham, and not enjoying the direct and constant influence of our family in the direct line of Abraham, I have not heard any oral tradition from that quarter.
.
Also t is not necessary for we have Moses who is complemented by Yeshua.

The Sabbath of the Lord was observed before Moses as being remembered and kept separated(holy) I would appreciate any input others may have on this.........thanks.

Interesting that God gave instruction to rest on the 7th day to us when we first came out of Egypt. Perhaps He knew something we don't. And did He give this 1 thing, to see if we could obey this 1 thing, for what use would 2 commandments be if we can't keep even 1?

(and yes, I say us and we instead of they and and them, because we are grafted in. We are part, not separate.)

 

[KSublett]

Sabbath means REST and never meant "a day of worship." It is possible that the REST day always existed. The Patriarchs were to be a blessing or teachers of all of the 70 nations. Abraham was a "gens' and not a Jew. In Genesis 49 Jacob laid out the pattern: He commanded that people NOT enter into covenant with the tribe of levi nor to attend any of their gatherings which is a synagogue word.

The people refused to listen to God speak THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT which was Abrahamic and contained no mandatory sacrifices. Exodus 31 is God's commanding the REST or KEEPING the Sabbath but the people were busily engaged in their old Egyptian idolatry. Like modern religionists they rested on a LAW OF SILENCE.

SOME ROUGH NOTES ON EXODUS 31

Historic Scholars understood the fatal fork at Sinai.

Ephraim Syrus b. c306, d. 373 On Our Lord notes that Sinai was a test.

http://www.piney.com/FathEphraimLord.html

18. But when their heathenism from being inward became open, then Moses also from being hidden openly appeared; that he might openly punish those whose heathenism had revelled beneath the holy cloud which had overshadowed them.
But God removed the Shepherd of the flock from it for forty days, that the flock might show that its trust was fixed upon the calf.
And he was there in the wilderness forty days tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him. Mark 1:13

While God was feeding the flock with all delights, it chose for itself as its Shepherd the calf, which was not able even to eat.
Moses who kept them in awe was removed from them, that the idolatry might cry aloud in their mouths,
which the restraint of Moses had kept down in their hearts. For they cried: Make us gods, to go before us.

What They Did.

19. But when Moses came down, he saw their heathenism revelling in the wide plain with drums and cymbals.
Speedily, he put their madness to shame by means of the Levites and drawn swords.

So likewise here, our Lord concealed His knowledge for a little when the sinful woman approached Him, that the Pharisee might form into shape his thought,as his fathers had shaped the pernicious calf.

The Holy Convocation at the Qahal, Synagogue, Ekklesia or Church of Christ (the Rock) in the wilderness RESTED on the Sabbath and were quarantined from Jerusalem where the tribe of Levi worshipped the starry host. This came to be each REST day after they were settled in Jerusalem.

The Jewish Synagogue had no relationship to the sacrificial system: they RESTED, read and rehearsed or memorized mostly the prophets.

 

[RedTent]

I do not think he tried to simplify it, i think he just showed us how to actually fulfill the commands. People were focused on the commands themselves, and trying to do them. he was showing them, you want to do them, this is how. Love (also called the law of love)

This post is so telling about what your and my disagreements center on. The word "focus" is so telling. Our disagreements usually are about whether the human mind can accept both (that word focus) that love must be included in all law, and also, at the very same time, read what scripture says about that law. If they know one thing of God, can they also know another and keep each in its rightful place as God wants us to.

Also, can we judge all "people" in this world think without basing it on their actual words. Can one person say such as: if people reads law, you know people can't accept love. That is an example.

So you and I disagree, I say one truth does not cancel out other truths, or should it shut off our learning, and you say "focus" and then list something that is left our, or should be. I always object to something of God being left out or destroyed.

 

[Zinzerio]

The law is only one aspect of the OT. It was Given to Israel. When God asked Israel to CONFIRM the covenant he made with them, He said this.

Cursed is everyone who does not confirm all the words and obey them.

The law is a covenant, The covenant is a whole. If you break the covenant, you suffer the consequence. Since the agreement was to confirm and obey ALL. it means just breaking one of the commands would make one guilty of the WHOLE law. and thus suffer the consequence (being cursed by God)

Even James confirms this

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

This is what is meant by the terms the sting of the law is death. Or the ministry of death written on stone. For only one person has ever fulfilled the covenant as written, And that was Christ.

so as I said, if you are going to tell someone they must obey the law. you are placing them under a curse, because you telling them to do something no one but Christ has been able to do.

also, as shown, the law was not even complete. it said do not commit adultry, well anyone can do this, but Jesus said if you even look at a woman in lust, you have sinned. how many men can say they have never done this??

so yuo see the second danger of following the law. I have never slept with another woman, So I have obeyed Gods command, When in reality, You have failed to keep the command, we just needed Jesus to explain the command for us, for the command itself was incapable of explaining what it meant.



lol. Ok so your one person, You had to do it for your job, Why do we take refresher courses? the laws change. Has Gods law given moses changed? Well no. but it was inadequate, thats why we have to take the rest of the OT and all the nt to figure out the real commands of God. Because as I showed, The law is inadequate, Not only to make us good people. But to show us all sin. All it can do is lead us to Christ, Because we KNOW we have not confirmed the old covenant. (obeyed ALL words) thus we are under the curse (thus the term schoolmaster)

I just wondered if you have considered something,? when God says to the Jews you will be cursed when you disobey me, is that not same as now because the way i see it the laws are written on our hearts
and when you disobey
there is a burden to pay
until you come to the lord who makes the heavy in laden
light in burden

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This post is so telling about what your and my disagreements center on. The word "focus" is so telling. Our disagreements usually are about whether the human mind can accept both (that word focus) that love must be included in all law, and also, at the very same time, read what scripture says about that law. If they know one thing of God, can they also know another and keep each in its rightful place as God wants us to.

Also, can we judge all "people" in this world think without basing it on their actual words. Can one person say such as: if people reads law, you know people can't accept love. That is an example.

So you and I disagree, I say one truth does not cancel out other truths, or should it shut off our learning, and you say "focus" and then list something that is left our, or should be. I always object to something of God being left out or destroyed.

Where we disagree is in the law itself.

All the commands given by god have been given since the begining of time, They have not changed, The things which we sin in adams day is sin today. Nothing has stopped being sin.

The law was given for a purpose. WHen God says he came to fulfill it. Then we should not argue with him. When he says he has released us from it, Then we should not argue with it. When he says that it is passing away, And something new (which is not really new) has taken its place. then we should not argue with him.

Until Christ fulfilled his promise the only way man could get to him was by the law. But it failed in all aspects to restore that relationship mankind lost at the fall of Adam.

Yet was supposed to fail. And it was supposed to show us how helpless we are, How hopeless we are. and what God was going to do to restore us to him.

It is funny, but sad, if you really think of it.

The legalistic and licentious crowd looks at the faith only crowd as excusing sin, When it is they who are excusing sin.

Thats why the pharisees did not recieve Christ.

1. They were in charge
2. They made the rules
3. As long as they did not commit the sins THEY deemed as serious sin, And fulfilled the law by giving a sacrifice for the sin they did commit. Then they did not need a savior. they needed a messaih would would free them from roman rule, and put them in charge. In other words, they excused the sins they loved to do. Because all they had to do was give a sacrifice.

They failed to see, An animal had to die for their forgiveness. Their sin caused the death of a living breathing thing.

Modern day pharisees are no different, They yell at the OSAS people. claiming they just want to excuse their sin, When in reality, yet again, it is they who are excusing their sin. As long as they do not do the sins THEY deem as serious, and "CONFESS' their little sins (in place of sacrifice) God will let them in, and they can sin all they want.

That is why we MUST not take the law lightly, as some people are doing. It is a written binding contract between God and Man. It is God saying, if you want to have fellowship with me one on one. You must do ALL the things written in this contract. Otherwise, you will suffer the CURSE which I imposed on Adam and all mankind when he sinned (the penalty of sin is death"

Once you break even the smallest part of the written covenant, It is broken. It can not be given back, You can not go back under, it is too late (this is why it will never work. We ALL have sinned and fall short of that mark. That is why it is the perfect schoolmaster. To say the Christian is bound by the law to obey it is to say the schoolmaster has no effect. It is to say, Ok Now God has saved me from the curse. Now I can go back and obey it. Yet if we look at it, We still fail.

James understood this, You break even the least of the commands, your found guilty of the whole law. It is not a set of commands I can pick and chose what is spiritual and what is not. and follow the physical. It is not a set of induvidual commands I must obey, It is a contract between God and man, You obey every jott and tittle. or you suffer the consequences.

God did not cancel or abolish the law. It still stands, He abolished the CURSE of the law in them to who the schoolmaster led to himself.

I do not need a command written in stone to tell me do not commit adultry, There are MANY MANY commands in the OT outside the law which tell me this.

This is where we disagree. You think yuo need to go to the law to see what is sin. When yuo do not. When yuo go to the law. you must take it as a whole. And if you do not see how totally utterly hopeless you are when you do this. You do not understand the law. If you do feel utterly hopeless when going back to the law. Then you MUST fear. For it is what the law was meant to do. Place the fear of God in you.

God said it clearly. I was not given the spirit of fear whereby I go back to bondage (by the law) I was given the an abba father.

There is no forgiveness in the law. It can only be found in Christ.

 

[JaumeJ]

The response came to me, you are not a very good Jew or Gentile if you do not keep the commandments..............

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I just wondered if you have considered something,? when God says to the Jews you will be cursed when you disobey me, is that not same as now because the way i see it the laws are written on our hearts
and when you disobey
there is a burden to pay
until you come to the lord who makes the heavy in laden
light in burden

Actually He told it to adam.

In the day (moment) you eat of this tree you will die.

That is exactly what the law says, In the day you break this covenant between me and you (sin) you will die (be cursed)

The only difference is you were already dead in Adam when you committed your first sin, and thus condemned your self according to the law.

That is why only death can cover our nakedness (as God committed the first death of an animal to cover the nakedness of Adam and Eve.)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The response came to me, you are not a very good Jew or Gentile if you do not keep the commandments..............

The thought came to me.

No matter how good you think you are at keeping the commandments,

You are still cursed by God because you can not keep them in accordance with the way God demanded.

That is why it is foolish to try to see how good you are. Because you will NEVER be honest with yourself (it is not in our nature) and instead you need to be outward focused, and concentrate on loving others.

 

[Zinzerio]

The response came to me, you are not a very good Jew or Gentile if you do not keep the commandments..............

Well this is the thing isn't it, this is what it all boils down to at last some one ask a question that make complete sense. we must strive to be with God in every given situation.

A good christian soldier endures to the end like rocky said if you can change i can change the whole world can change.
its the same in here this is how it is, we come in we sound the trumpet the battle begins we fight but in love we laugh in sorrow and in joy,

when one meets a new believe who sees in a different perceptive it is like a boxing match until peace and respect is achieved if you turn your back you get knocked out if you face the battle head on you dont,

you can face the battle and still turn the other cheek and counter act with the word of God,

But as we see the lords views certain commandments as more important like theese look here mathew But you have neglected the more important matters of the law – justice, mercy and faithfulness.
This is the farther saying i love you these laws are important please try to not neglect these they matter to the lord.
As we see justice plays a key role in all of the commandments and as we see Jesus did not want to stone his people we also see mercy and forgiveness. which helps you to be faithful

1 Timothy 1:17

New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[Vaudeville]

the commandments of Jesus Christ are there for all to see. they are in red in some bibles. he gave authority and power to his apostles, and their instructions are for all who are being saved. new covenant, new instructions. no temple, no sacrifices, no booths, no yeast from the mustang, no circumcision.

 

[Zinzerio]

Actually He told it to adam.

In the day (moment) you eat of this tree you will die.

That is exactly what the law says, In the day you break this covenant between me and you (sin) you will die (be cursed)

The only difference is you were already dead in Adam when you committed your first sin, and thus condemned your self according to the law.

That is why only death can cover our nakedness (as God committed the first death of an animal to cover the nakedness of Adam and Eve.)

He had to get his message across Adam had been deceived and so had eve.

do you think if the lord had said here is a cup of fruit juice don't worry about just dont be decieved again do you think adam and eve would of listened to the lord hmm ,, ? I don't think so he told adam you will die, ? put your self in this situation for i minute give it some thought. would you want to be deceived again ? absolutely not.

 

[RedTent]

Where we disagree is in the law itself.

All the commands given by god have been given since the begining of time, They have not changed, The things which we sin in adams day is sin today. Nothing has stopped being sin.

The law was given for a purpose. WHen God says he came to fulfill it. Then we should not argue with him. When he says he has released us from it, Then we should not argue with it. When he says that it is passing away, And something new (which is not really new) has taken its place. then we should not argue with him.

Until Christ fulfilled his promise the only way man could get to him was by the law. But it failed in all aspects to restore that relationship mankind lost at the fall of Adam.

Yet was supposed to fail. And it was supposed to show us how helpless we are, How hopeless we are. and what God was going to do to restore us to him.

It is funny, but sad, if you really think of it.

The legalistic and licentious crowd looks at the faith only crowd as excusing sin, When it is they who are excusing sin.

Thats why the pharisees did not recieve Christ.

1. They were in charge
2. They made the rules
3. As long as they did not commit the sins THEY deemed as serious sin, And fulfilled the law by giving a sacrifice for the sin they did commit. Then they did not need a savior. they needed a messaih would would free them from roman rule, and put them in charge. In other words, they excused the sins they loved to do. Because all they had to do was give a sacrifice.

They failed to see, An animal had to die for their forgiveness. Their sin caused the death of a living breathing thing.

Modern day pharisees are no different, They yell at the OSAS people. claiming they just want to excuse their sin, When in reality, yet again, it is they who are excusing their sin. As long as they do not do the sins THEY deem as serious, and "CONFESS' their little sins (in place of sacrifice) God will let them in, and they can sin all they want.

That is why we MUST not take the law lightly, as some people are doing. It is a written binding contract between God and Man. It is God saying, if you want to have fellowship with me one on one. You must do ALL the things written in this contract. Otherwise, you will suffer the CURSE which I imposed on Adam and all mankind when he sinned (the penalty of sin is death"

Once you break even the smallest part of the written covenant, It is broken. It can not be given back, You can not go back under, it is too late (this is why it will never work. We ALL have sinned and fall short of that mark. That is why it is the perfect schoolmaster. To say the Christian is bound by the law to obey it is to say the schoolmaster has no effect. It is to say, Ok Now God has saved me from the curse. Now I can go back and obey it. Yet if we look at it, We still fail.

James understood this, You break even the least of the commands, your found guilty of the whole law. It is not a set of commands I can pick and chose what is spiritual and what is not. and follow the physical. It is not a set of induvidual commands I must obey, It is a contract between God and man, You obey every jott and tittle. or you suffer the consequences.

God did not cancel or abolish the law. It still stands, He abolished the CURSE of the law in them to who the schoolmaster led to himself.

I do not need a command written in stone to tell me do not commit adultry, There are MANY MANY commands in the OT outside the law which tell me this.

This is where we disagree. You think yuo need to go to the law to see what is sin. When yuo do not. When yuo go to the law. you must take it as a whole. And if you do not see how totally utterly hopeless you are when you do this. You do not understand the law. If you do feel utterly hopeless when going back to the law. Then you MUST fear. For it is what the law was meant to do. Place the fear of God in you.

God said it clearly. I was not given the spirit of fear whereby I go back to bondage (by the law) I was given the an abba father.

There is no forgiveness in the law. It can only be found in Christ.

First, I would like to commend you on speaking clearer. I only object to you telling me you know what I think. You know what I state, and that you can repeat except you may not add to it nor say what I think.

I disagree that the purpose of the law can to be summed up in a few sentences.

We disagree about bringing in judging the "legalistic and licentious crowd" as a way to judge law. Obeying law legalistically is a separate subject, it has nothing to do with judging law itself.

We strongly disagree about the word "fulfilled". It is a beautiful word that includes all that Christ is to us. It is living and sustaining, it has nothing to do with destroying or stopping anything.

We need to see how Christ used the Pharisees to explain law to us, but it is not an explanation of the beauty of love in the law, or of the path to abundant living that we can gain from learning scripture about it. Your explanations of law always includes judgments of people using it wrong as an explanation of the law itself, I don't agree with that as teaching of what law is for or of a way to judge law itself. It is teaching how not to use the law.

I don't agree with the teaching about how we are dead in our sins without Christ as the curse of the law is, as teaching about the law itself. Even breaking a small part of law results in death, but Christ results in life. That truth is not an explanation of law, as your teaching always includes. Christ abolished that curse, but Christ did not abolish all guideposts we have been given because Christ gave us life.

You have no right to call me utterly hopeless, I object. If Christ said not to call someone a fool, and you follow Him, what do you suppose Christ says about "hopeless?". I object to your judgments that have nothing to do with working out what God wants us to learn from scripture.

I disagree that the definition of bondage is all of the law. I disagree that scripture says that any guidelines for how to live in love is bondage.

We finally have one agreement. "There is no forgiveness in the law". Forgiveness is not one of the purposes of law.

I do have one judgment of your teachings. These teachings damage the precious church of the Lord. The word, as scripture is and Christ is should be treated as holy.

 

[Zinzerio]

the commandments of Jesus Christ are there for all to see. they are in red in some bibles. he gave authority and power to his apostles, and their instructions are for all who are being saved. new covenant, new instructions. no temple, no sacrifices, no booths, no yeast from the mustang, no circumcision.

amen for that no circus ism

 

[Vaudeville]

where are the scriptures that say a 7th day sabbath was handed down to adam?

 

[Zinzerio]

The Jews failed to see, An animal had to die for their forgiveness. Their sin caused the death of a living breathing thing.

I Have to thank you i have wondered this about the lord.
I often think why the lord had wrote his law on our hearts.
Iuse to think why did he not do that to the Jews ? and now it has hit me thanks to you he wanted the people to write and bind his laws to there own hearts and he did this by making baby lambs a sacrafice.
i use to think stuff like its not fair why have we got this happen later on in life when the Jews did not and now i know why.
The lord was broken hearted ABOUT HIS BABY LAMBS BEING crucified over and over again

 

[Vaudeville]

We strongly disagree about the word "fulfilled". It is a beautiful word that includes all that Christ is to us. It is living and sustaining, it has nothing to do with destroying or stopping anything.

more interesting language. don't like it that Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law satisfying God and abolishing it?

 

[Zinzerio]

And this makes think satan the is the exact oppersite to that he wants to crucify over and over again

 

[RedTent]

more interesting language. don't like it that Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law satisfying God and abolishing it?

I don't think what I like or don't like is important at all. God does not like men saying Christ abolished anything spiritually. Christ abolished the use of the blood of animals to symbolize Him and used His blood, but spiritually blood is fulfilled not abolished. Christ brought about the Holy Spirit for law, but it is the same law and the written law explains it, Christ fulfilled but destroyed nothing spiritually. We could go on and on with what it meant to have the eternal Christ go through living in our time.

 

[ivanc0]

more interesting language. don't like it that Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law satisfying God and abolishing it?

Originally Posted by RedTent

We strongly disagree about the word "fulfilled". It is a beautiful word that includes all that Christ is to us. It is living and sustaining, it has nothing to do with destroying or stopping anything.
more interesting language. don't like it that Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law satisfying God and abolishing it?
Galatians 3

King James Version (KJV)


3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?.............


[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

.....So the Idea that the law is no longer needed came from Paul.

See the word of Jesus about the Jews and it leaders.......

Mathew 23
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

[SUP]33 [/SUP]Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

[SUP]35 [/SUP]That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

[SUP]36 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

[SUP]37 [/SUP]O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

(Your house: = .... your temple...your law?)