The Letter to the Romans...

SeaBass · Apr 2, 2014

Gal 4:29 does not have the order of events for salvation as Rom 6:17,18.

This issue with the Galatians were false Judiazing teachers told them they could be justifed if they did not keep the OT law of circumcision. And in v29 Paul is telling these Christians at Galatia these false Judiazers who are born after the flesh are persecuting those born of the spirit (Christians, followers of Christ's NT gospel)

Hoffco · Apr 2, 2014

Seabass, you are dead wrong, as always, your OP was wrong; we do not do works of righteousness to "become" righteous. We are righteous by being born of God, then our works can be accepted by God as righteous, born of God, Not of works, but by "the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit." The regeneration by God "makes" us righteous, holiness of heart that produces holiness of life, which works are then accepted by God as righteous, worthy of eternal life in a general sense. Because the "unrighteous" will not inherit eternal life, Paul says we were, before conversion, unrighteous, but by the new birth we are made righteous Rom.5:21 "grace reigns in righteousness (our personal righteous
) to eternal life." as in Rom.6:22, "your fruit to holiness, the end is eternal life." Love to all, Hoffco

SeaBass · Apr 3, 2014

Hoffco said:

1 Jn 3:7 "....he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."

There's an old saying "you are what you eat"

It can also be said "you are what you do"...if you do righteousness you are righteous. If you do unrighteousness then you are unrighteous. Too many people err in trying to make people righteous when they have not done any righteousness, that is, make people righteous while they remain in a state of doing unrighteousness, a state of being unrighteous. The cure for unrighteousness is DOING RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Being born of God, the new birth of Jn 3:5 is water baptism. When submits to God's command to be water baptized then they are doing working righteousness. In Acts 10:35 Peter said he that "worketh righteousness" is accepted with God. So when the Gentiles obeyed the command to be water baptized, (verses 47,48) then they were working righteousness and accepted with God.

Jn 3:5------------spirit+++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
Titus 3:5------Holy Ghost+++++++washing of regen>>>>>>cleansed
1 Cor 12:13------spirit++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>in the body

Since there is just one way to be born again/saved, then all three verses must express the same idea. It becomes clear, by letting the bible speak for itself, that "water" and "washing of regeneration" and "baptized" proves that the new birth includes water baptism.

So this "washing of regeneration" refers to water baptism that men choose to or not to obey by their own free will. This regeneration is not something God chooses arbitrarily for man, God does not choose to "regenrate" some while leaving others to be left "unregenrated". If that is the case, then God becomes accountable and has fault and blame for all those "unregenerates" that He failed to "regenerate". This idea has the stinch of Calvinism all over it.

Nowhere in Rom 5 does Paul say we are made righteous UNconditionally or made sinners UNconditionally. That idea is added by Calvinists. People are conditionally made sinners for they choose to sin, Rom 5:12. People are conditonally made righteous for they choose to have faith, Rom 5:1,2.

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Isa 64:6 is taken out of context by may people for verses 6 and 7 speak of Israel at a tiem when Israel turned from God and was in iniquity..."our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" and "hast consumed us, because of our iniquities". For the obvious reason Isa 64:5 never gets quoted that says "Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways:..." God meets/entreats/helps those that work righteousness. God's people are those that obey His commands/work His righteousness.

Hoffco · Apr 3, 2014

SeaBass, I see your problem, you are deceived by, baptismal regeneration teachers. Water bap. has nothing to do with being born from above,(again), being born of God, being born of the Spirit, being born of the water, (the Word of God). The water in Jh.3:5 has nothing to do with baptism, it is symbolic of The Bible, the knowledge that come from the Bible. This action of God is according to and utilizes the truth in the Bible. NO where in the Bible is baptism associated with being born again. the new birth is never,never said to be the action of man; it is the miracle of God as Paul taught in his letters, and as John teaches in all his books. I will give you all the verses on the new birth, after I get my coffee, this will take a while to do. It will cost you,LOL, one cup of coffee, LOL. I don't have a coffee maker, nor instant, so I am boiling my coffee grounds, sent from our USA friend, We need more friends to help in our costly ministry. It takes all my retirement, BUT, I love it. Love to all, Hoffco

SeaBass · Apr 3, 2014

Hoffco said:

How do you define "baptismal regeneration"? It means different things to different people.

I choose for myself to believe what I believe, no one makes me to believe anything.

Letting bible verses harmonize with each other we get:

Jn 3:5------------spirit+++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
Titus 3:5------Holy Ghost+++++++washing of regen>>>>>>cleansed
1 Cor 12:13------spirit++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>in the body

So it is too clear to me that the new birth of Jn 3:5 refers to water baptism.

YOu post "the new birth is never,never said to be the action of man; it is the miracle of God"

If this is the case, then why would Christ use words as " Ye must be born again " if being born again was completely out of the control and ablity of Nicodemus? If Nicodemus and others are lost for not being born again, then it comes down to be 100% God's fault and blame for His failure to perform this "miracle" upon them.

But God has no fault and blame for the new birth is water baptism being commanded and men that choose to obey this command will be saved those that do not obey will be lost and the lost therefore are not God's fault and blame. And nowhere I see did Paul say the new birth is a miracle God randomly decides to perfom upon some and not others.

Jn 3:5------------spirit+++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
Titus 3:5------Holy Ghost+++++++washing of regen>>>>>>cleansed
1 Cor 12:13------spirit++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>in the body

Hoffco · Apr 3, 2014

To SeaBass, The very concept of birth, having a baby, is totally a work a man and a woman, (hopefully married) it has nothing to do with us who attend or assist. If we are wise we can help with the proper instructions and means, but the birth is by the mother. God gives spiritual birth, we can assist if we know what to do. And It is quite clear to me, that the more man helps God, the more spiritual abortions we see. So, how can we assist God? the best way is to preach the whole word of God and encourage sinners to study God's word and seek God and plead with God to give them the new birth, and wait on God to do His miracle. There is much travail in birth. Only those who storm the gates of heaven will be born of God. Love to all. Hoffco, more to come

Hoffco · Apr 3, 2014

SeraBass, you have a partial knowledge with is very dangerous. The three verses you use have nothing to do with water baptism; they teach of the LIFE given by God only. Please. let we explain the new birth to you according to the Bible. Starting with John 3, there is Nothing in the context that teaches baptism. The immediate setting is that Nicodemus is thinking of the birth from his mother, but Jesus corrects him, by saying "born again" "born from above", literally, "above", not again, which indicates, from God, NOT man,nor woman. v,7&3 . (not by your mother) v.6 Jesus refers to the mothers' birth as being "flesh" and the birth of the Spirits' birth as "spirit" (this is not totally true, as man has a spirit and as a Christian still has a body. BUT, it is clear, Jesus does not mean water baptism. ALSO, the work of baptism of men is never, never spoken of as the new birth. John the baptist never spoke of the new birth. New birth is a New T. teaching; But it was experienced in the Old T. because no one can enter the Kingdom without a new heart, nature. More to come. Hoffco

Hoffco · Apr 3, 2014

I will continue Gods' use of the word of God in His new birth. James 1:18 "Of His own WILL He brought us forth (begat us) by the WORD of truth...." 1Pet.1:23 "Having been born again, not of corruptible seed but by the incorruptible, through the WORD of God which lives and abides forever." v25"But the WORD of the LORD endures forever. Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you." Our preaching the Word of God is used by God to help God give birth to the souls. 1Cor. 1:21 "...through the foolishness of the message preached to save thought who believe," God uses our preaching of the cross to help Him give the new birth, to save souls. The setting of 1Cor,1 is the new birth, the "calling" of God. v.2 "...to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints,..." v.30 "but of Him you are in Christ Jesus,..." then in Eph.5:26 Paul identifies the "washing" as done by the Word of God ,not baptism. "That He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the WORD," The "washing of regeneration" Tit, 3:5 must be the washing with the word of God, not water baptism. Rom. 6, never says water bap. and it is passive, "were baptized into Christ" "by his doing" cor.1:30 "washed by the Word of God" Eph.5 and 1Cor.12:13 "For by one Spirit we were baptized into one body..." We are passive in the new birth, Rom.6:22"..having been set free and having been made slaves of God," PASSIVE. acted upon by God alone. No one can be born of God by doing good deeds, the good deeds come after we are born of God. as the book of 1 John teaches. Only those who love God and the brethren and obey God and believe on Jesus ARE (in a state of having been) born of God. love to all. Hoffco

homwardbound · Apr 3, 2014

Hoffco said:

Doug, I got in laymen terms a urinary track infection from bladder not emptying completely and not aware of it, that got my ___________ cut off to try to save my life, less than 7% people that get this gangrene, known as Foreigners live, and less than 5% make it past the first year.
And God Brother did not cause it, it is plain and simple what happened, perfectly at peace with Father for many years. And by this tragedy that has not killed me along with all the others prior, has only cause me to trust Father alone further, deeper through Son's Finished work at the cross
I stand in the Faith, (Belief alone) that I am saved whether I do any works or not, Adding to Faith, Belief, when it is finished by Christ a done deal as you have been shown, nullifies grace (gift) A gift is not a gift if any requirements
Col. 1:21-23, it is by Faith alone, that brings one to work for God willingly, enthusiastically. Not ever begrudgingly,
If as these scriptures point out one continues in the Faith, not works. Works of the Faith are a by-product after and while in the Faith, works are produced, and one is asked to do, now what one does not do? Is Faith made void?

You want a full picture of who we are in Faith: Love you Doug for nothing can separate us from the Love of God
The Fellowship Of The Unashamed

homwardbound · Apr 3, 2014

SeaBass said:

Yep, that is the subject, how much deeper does it go or we just sticking to the letter and not seeing the Spiritual reality?
Can your flesh please God?
Can anyone's flesh please God?
Are you alive to flesh or the Spirit of God?
How and what is the only way God can be worshiped presently?

No right or wrong answers, not contentious, curious?

homwardbound · Apr 3, 2014

Hoffco said:

My answer to that ? highlighted for you Doug and all that wish to see this is:

A water glass, it is a vessel made to hold water and liquids, that is what that glass was made for to be used by its master correct?

So could anyone ever imagine a water glass in their cabinet available, storming the gates, to be used or use?
Would you the master of that glass, say to the glass, please calm down, rest and tell the water glass its purpose; to be available to be used whenever you decide to use it?

Just an physical analogy to bring home the Spiritual reality. Thanks; are we now available and calmed down and at rest, waiting for our Shepard to speak, we listen, hear and just do as Noah did, Abraham did and all Father's Saints?
And God's Spirit testifies with our Spirits personally and we know we are his, and if not we are none of his
Love from Father through Son Christ

SeaBass · Apr 3, 2014

homwardbound said:

I was not dealing with the flesh pleasing God, but the order of salvic events in Rom 6:17,18.

1) servants of sin
2) obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine
3) then freed from sin/justified.

Many erroneous man-made theologies try to put 3 before 2.

SeaBass · Apr 3, 2014

Hoffco said:

To SeaBass, The very concept of birth, having a baby, is totally a work a man and a woman, (hopefully married) it has nothing to do with us who attend or assist. If we are wise we can help with the proper instructions and means, but the birth is by the mother. God gives spiritual birth, we can assist if we know what to do. And It is quite clear to me, that the more man helps God, the more spiritual abortions we see. So, how can we assist God? the best way is to preach the whole word of God and encourage sinners to study God's word and seek God and plead with God to give them the new birth, and wait on God to do His miracle. There is much travail in birth. Only those who storm the gates of heaven will be born of God. Love to all. Hoffco, more to come

And what if God does not give this spiritual birth to me? Whose fault would that be?

Elin · Apr 4, 2014

SeaBass said:

God owes you nothing but justice.

If he chooses to give you nothing, he has done you no injustice.

homwardbound · Apr 4, 2014

Hoffco said:

How can anyone be good when only Father is Good?
Matt. 19
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? [SUP]17 [/SUP]And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:

homwardbound · Apr 4, 2014

SeaBass said:

Thank you for that clarity, yes I see this as well, and remember when "I" was in the way doing that very same thing, a kind of look at me Lord in public, yet behind closed doors was miserable
I to this day know of no man that can have two faces; one to the crowd and the other to self, without eventually becoming perplexed as to which one is true, and either comes to life or remains hiding.
that day happened to me and the mask I had to take off, and give up on me trying to do what God has already done through Son, and just trust God
Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Colossians 1:23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Hoffco · Apr 4, 2014

Elin, HALALUYA, your post 894 is absolutely beautiful,perfect. short,and no mistakes. To the three of you: Elin, homwardbound and SeaBass, your problem is, you won't bow to God and receive His WORD as He wrote it. You are like a great, but, for me, notoriously wrong evangelist, D.L. Moody, who said, "I read my Bible as I eat my chicken, I eat the meat and throw away the bones." The Wesleyan brothers were the same. God used them mightily, but their theology was in great error. They refused to bow to the whole Bible.! SeaBass, you hate the sovereign God of the Bible, as did the three preachers, above mentioned, did. Elin, you are so sure,secure in you half truths, you won't hear ,you have shut you ears. homwardbound, you are so confused, I really wonder if you are saved? I am still confused as to WHAT got cut off by your doctor.? And, how did you get such a disease? Were you practicing wicked sexual sins? If so, why,how could you think you were saved? please tell the whole truth. I will share a little of my medical history; I trust and am sure,we are all mature, God fearing adults and can talk straight forward. I have always been faithful to one woman at a time, and have only known two women in my whole life, being married twice, my first wife died after 40 yrs of a "rough" marriage, because my wife favored our one, self willed daughter over and above me, she was weak in the faith and maturity in not obeying me fully, faithful,good as far as sex was concern. Our marriage was better after our daughter left home; but she hated my strong straight preaching, because I was always rejected by our "friends", at the end she totally rejected me theologically. as "not fit for the ministry", this is why God took her home early in 2007. Fast forward, 2014. My second wife is having the same personal rejection problems as my first wife had, over my "bull headed stupid habit" of condemning most all pastors who have "rejected" me, and is ashamed of me, and mad at me for my "mental illness". It is very hard for me to minister as God wants, with my wife, but we did have a good teaching time together today with our discipleship program with the children today. Sooo, pray,the work will be blessed with souls saved. BUT, the medical problem , the often blater or prostate infections. Then, I coughed so hard,so long, I got a new hernia, needed an operation. So, I got smart , I would have my left scrotum remove at the same time, because it often got infected because of a vasectomy in 1976. Now, I have been infection free for 2 yrs. So, homwardbound, now I am thinking, you had both scrotums removed and it saved your lift. Am I right? Sorry,if this imbairres you, but, for the medical help of us reading, I need to get this straight. Love to all, Hoffco

Hoffco · Apr 4, 2014

SeaBass said:

SeaBass, Your problem is, not understanding basic English and Greek verbs. In the three steps above, Biblially , step 3 is before step 2. Because, theologically, man is dead in sin and will not seek God until Gods seeks and draws man. Unsaved man can not repent and believe and obey by his own sinful will. 2. grammatically, Romans 6:22 is saying Man is "passive" and God does the freeing and enslaving of man to righteousness of life. The verbs are "passive, Ariost, participles"= "having been freed" and "being enslaved by God", the result is present, "holy living". If you look at John 1:12-13, you will see that the action of God's new birth, happens before the receiving of Christ by the sinner,believer, in v. 12. look at Jh. 3:21; the good deeds followed the work of the new birth by God. We can only receive Jesus after God "saves" us by Grace alone, as we believe God's, in his WORD. Love to all, Hoffco

homwardbound · Apr 4, 2014

Hoffco said:

My Penis swelled and had to be cut off and a new way to pea had to be established, that is what took place. And as far as masturbation it took place from time to time, and is between ?God and I. And am not afraid to admit I am in an unredeemed body that I always wanted dead, to held alive by God.
Maybe this might help you in whatever your purpose is, whatever you are after.
I know God knows the motive of us all, and I pray if any wrong ones, God does what it might take to straighten us out to have the correct motive, and not a selfish one
For who is able to make us stand? God and God alone Brother as we all are a growing in his amazing grace, God leads I do not.
Praying you might see past this as just the food chapter for it goes much deeper
[h=3]Romans 14[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. [SUP]5 [/SUP]One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. [SUP]6 [/SUP]He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself

faroukfarouk · Apr 4, 2014

homwardbound said:

My Penis swelled and had to be cut off and a new way to pea had to be established, that is what took place. And as far as masturbation it took place from time to time, and is between ?God and I. And am not afraid to admit I am in an unredeemed body that I always wanted dead, to held alive by God.
Maybe this might help you in whatever your purpose is, whatever you are after.
I know God knows the motive of us all, and I pray if any wrong ones, God does what it might take to straighten us out to have the correct motive, and not a selfish one
For who is able to make us stand? God and God alone Brother as we all are a growing in his amazing grace, God leads I do not.
Praying you might see past this as just the food chapter for it goes much deeper
Romans 14

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. [SUP]5 [/SUP]One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. [SUP]6 [/SUP]He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself

Too much information.

But the passage quoted is good.

The Letter to the Romans...

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