Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[homwardbound]

Is any of that above by works of self or by faith in Christ the son,
What does thinking of not sinning bring forth?
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

How are anyone doing with this mentality of flesh trying to stop flesh?
I mean every time "I" wish to do good what do I do? Is the "I" me the self in the way and thus brings forth more sin

Romans 8:4 that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

How can one walk in the Spirt except by Faith? and Faith in what?
Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You reject the word of God,

Mark 16:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

There is no clearer scripture in all of Gods word that one must be baptized to be saved, and all you think you need to do is the same as devils, believe.

You're right when you say all you need to do is believe on Him, what is sad is you have not clue what it means to "believe on Him" it means to do and keep 'ALL' His commands. you cannot believe on someone and reject His word.

I said it once, I will say it again.

1. You can not prove that is water baptism and not spirit.
2. To many other passages PROVE it is spirit.

you do not make a doctrine on one verse..

You want to be saved by earning it by your deeds, go ahead.

I was baptized by God. An am spiritually clean. and I will be in heaven, I pray you will be too, but as it looks like now. I will not..

ps. I allowed myself to be baptized in water also. on obedience to Gods command, BUT IT DID NOT SAVE ME

 

[Cassian]

1 Corinthians 12:6 There are many ways in which God works in our lives, but it is the same God who does the work in and through all of uswho are his.

God does work many ways with man, but in not case does God actually do the work. The Holy Spirit works in us for us to do His will. If God actually did the work, then all men would be saved, since God desires all men to be saved. Unfortunately, He does not work that way. You, your desire, wish, your decision is the fulcrum that determines if you will be saved or if not. God will judge YOU, on what YOU did, not what HE did.

 

[Cassian]

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Unfortunately again, you don't have the Father dwelling in you.

 

[homwardbound]

Ok, so you rationalized your way out on that one. Seems typical.

However, it is still water that God uses to enter us into Christ.
Every sacrament/mystery has a physical element to it. God does not operate with man in only some spiritual/non physical way.
That is why your original statement was tending towards Gnosticism. Unfortunately it was Zwingli who denied the physical aspects of sacraments. It is this subtle form of Gnosticism that has invaded a not of Protestant theology.
`
Baptism does not save a person either. It is necessary to enter into Christ, but just because we believe,(initial belief) repent and are baptized, one is not necessarily saved, that is, inherits the promise unless one endures, remains faithful.

There is no such thing as a static-one-time- faith salvation. It is dynamic, it is continuing, active and must bear fruit. If not, one cannot be saved.

No matter what way you, or anyone slices, dices and or interprets, matters not God is Faithful to carry on any good work God starts in us that beleive
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
Isaiah 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.


Who is the righteousness of? not me, obly my Father, Christ's Father is where by Faith we stand and are am

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok, so you rationalized your way out on that one. Seems typical.

However, it is still water that God uses to enter us into Christ.
Every sacrament/mystery has a physical element to it. God does not operate with man in only some spiritual/non physical way.
That is why your original statement was tending towards Gnosticism. Unfortunately it was Zwingli who denied the physical aspects of sacraments. It is this subtle form of Gnosticism that has invaded a not of Protestant theology.
`
Baptism does not save a person either. It is necessary to enter into Christ, but just because we believe,(initial belief) repent and are baptized, one is not necessarily saved, that is, inherits the promise unless one endures, remains faithful.

There is no such thing as a static-one-time- faith salvation. It is dynamic, it is continuing, active and must bear fruit. If not, one cannot be saved.

Keep believing this. Keep believing in men and not the word of God. Keep doing what the jews did, and making the same mistake.

1. Your sacraments did not replace the OT law and religious works, Which NEVER SAVED anyone.
2. Your churhc did not replace Israel
3. Your church and your sacraments will never save anyone, Never help save anyone, And never make up for even 1 sin, no matter how small that sin may have been. Let alone th emillions of sin you have commited since birth, and will commit from now until you die.


Kepp going this way, and You will not like the end result..

 

[Cassian]

I said it once, I will say it again.

1. You can not prove that is water baptism and not spirit.
2. To many other passages PROVE it is spirit.

you do not make a doctrine on one verse..

You want to be saved by earning it by your deeds, go ahead.

I was baptized by God. An am spiritually clean. and I will be in heaven, I pray you will be too, but as it looks like now. I will not..

ps. I allowed myself to be baptized in water also. on obedience to Gods command, BUT IT DID NOT SAVE ME

the only person I see making doctrine is you. Water Baptism has been the norm since Pentecost. It has always meant entrance into Christ, His body.
But none of these events saves us in and of themselves. Belief alone does not save, repentance once does not save, baptism does not save, but each of them are requirements that make up how one is saved. Salvation of our souls, is all about living, the doing, being a follower, and imitator of Christ, to be perfected by love and obedience. Our salvation is a working out with God, through faith in Christ, that saves us.

 

[homwardbound]

God does work many ways with man, but in not case does God actually do the work. The Holy Spirit works in us for us to do His will. If God actually did the work, then all men would be saved, since God desires all men to be saved. Unfortunately, He does not work that way. You, your desire, wish, your decision is the fulcrum that determines if you will be saved or if not. God will judge YOU, on what YOU did, not what HE did.

I am made by God the righteousness of God that I partake in and have none of my own, which is what God is offering through Son to all that believe God. Or was Chirst who needed not to go to death, because he was and is perfect, go to death for what reason than to commit to us the message of reconciliation forgiven
That is the message we are by Christ reconciled to Father through his death in our stead right or wrong?

 

[Cassian]

No matter what way you, or anyone slices, dices and or interprets, matters not God is Faithful to carry on any good work God starts in us that beleive
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
Isaiah 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.


Who is the righteousness of? not me, obly my Father, Christ's Father is where by Faith we stand and are am

Now we not only have confusion over faith/works, but the false notion of OSAS has entered into the equation.

 

[Jabberjaw]

The apostles were not baptized with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. They were filled with the Holy Spirit. Filled with the power of God to declare the word of God before the men present and to do so with the authority God gave them through the Holy Spirit. Again the original language betrays your false assumptions. Jesus baptized the disciples in the upper room when He breathed upon them John ch 20 if you want to see it for yourself.

What shall we say of one who claims to teach but does not comprehend the subject matter? Oh yeah if the blind lead the blind they shall both fall into the ditch.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So you believe that when Jesus "Breathed" on them in John 20:22 giving the the Holy Spirit? :

John 20:22 (NKJV) And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

Lets look at the Greek word under "breathed" :

John 20:22 (Stephanus) και τουτο ειπων ενεφυσησεν και λεγει αυτοις λαβετε πνευμα αγιον

ενεφυσησεν The same Greek word used in Genesis 2:7

Genesis 2:7 (NKJV) And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Genesis 2:7 (LXX)
και επλασεν ο θεος τον ανθρωπον χουν απο της γης και ενεφυσησεν εις το προσωπον αυτου πνοην ζωης και εγενετο ο ανθρωπος εις ψυχην ζωσαν

ενεφυσησεν Meaning "life", Jesus in John 20 brought to life the commission of the apostles, he did not breath into the apostles the Holy Spirit no more than God breathed the Holy Spirit into Adam.

They were told to wait for the promise of the Holy Spirit that would come on Pentecost :

Acts 1:4 (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me;

 

[Cassian]

Keep believing this. Keep believing in men and not the word of God. Keep doing what the jews did, and making the same mistake.

1. Your sacraments did not replace the OT law and religious works, Which NEVER SAVED anyone.
2. Your churhc did not replace Israel
3. Your church and your sacraments will never save anyone, Never help save anyone, And never make up for even 1 sin, no matter how small that sin may have been. Let alone th emillions of sin you have commited since birth, and will commit from now until you die.


Kepp going this way, and You will not like the end result..

Typical response when one has nothing of substance. All unfounded assertions.
What Jew would that be, Christ? What men would that be, the Apostles?

I can see your problem here, you believe in yourself, a man.

 

[Cassian]

I am made by God the righteousness of God that I partake in and have none of my own, which is what God is offering through Son to all that believe God. Or was Chirst who needed not to go to death, because he was and is perfect, go to death for what reason than to commit to us the message of reconciliation forgiven
That is the message we are by Christ reconciled to Father through his death in our stead right or wrong?

Kinda missed the discussion. We are not speaking about the reconciliation of the world by Christ to God.

We are speaking about how man is reconciled to God, which is by faith and is being saved through that faith.

 

[homwardbound]

Unfortunately again, you don't have the Father dwelling in you.

Okay then, you go at it, and be righteous in and oif your own flesh then.
Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Mark 14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
ohn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:4 that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

 

[Jabberjaw]

No matter what way you, or anyone slices, dices and or interprets, matters not God is Faithful to carry on any good work God starts in us that beleive
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
Isaiah 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.


Who is the righteousness of? not me, obly my Father, Christ's Father is where by Faith we stand and are am

Once saved always saved, another false doctrine :

Acts 8:12-13 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.

Simon was saved, you have to reject this, the bible says he was saved.

Now Simon falls from grace:

Acts 8:18-19 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit."

Simon sinned, falling from Grace, thinking he could "buy" the Holy Spirit, and what does Peter tell him :

Acts 8:20-24 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
[SUP]21 [/SUP]You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.
[SUP]22[/SUP]Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then Simon answered and said, "Pray to the Lord for me, that none of the things which you have spoken may come upon me."

We see Simon saved, falling from Grace, rebuked by Peter, Simon repents and asks Peter to pray for him that those things (what things? lost salvation) don't happen to him.

Your once saved always saved is shot down with these few verses.

 

[homwardbound]

Kinda missed the discussion. We are not speaking about the reconciliation of the world by Christ to God.

We are speaking about how man is reconciled to God, which is by faith and is being saved through that faith.

Actually it is in the post original adding works and one is not saved without works and is in essence calling God a liar, when God said it is a gift, and any gift has no work attached to it. Christ did the work for us and made us by his work righteous to Father through him so we can get the gift of new life in the Spirit of Father, Father dwelling in us as Father dwelt in Christ

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

 

[homwardbound]

Once saved always saved, another false doctrine :

Acts 8:12-13 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.

Simon was saved, you have to reject this, the bible says he was saved.

Now Simon falls from grace:

Acts 8:18-19 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit."

Simon sinned, falling from Grace, thinking he could "buy" the Holy Spirit, and what does Peter tell him :

Acts 8:20-24 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
[SUP]21 [/SUP]You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.
[SUP]22[/SUP]Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then Simon answered and said, "Pray to the Lord for me, that none of the things which you have spoken may come upon me."

We see Simon saved, falling from Grace, rebuked by Peter, Simon repents and asks Peter to pray for him that those things (what things? lost salvation) don't happen to him.

Your once saved always saved is shot down with these few verses.

God's Spirit has testified with my Spirit that I am saved and that is God's final answer, who carries on the good work you or God?
praying for you tom have the same for you and if your motive is pure then I know god will reveal this to you as well as God does to all the saints God call righteous by Faith in Son our forgiven reconciled redemption
Thank you Father

 

[Jabberjaw]

Actually it is in the post original adding works and one is not saved without works and is in essence calling God a liar, when God said it is a gift, and any gift has no work attached to it. Christ did the work for us and made us by his work righteous to Father through him so we can get the gift of new life in the Spirit of Father, Father dwelling in us as Father dwelt in Christ

you contradict yourself, you first say above "God said it is a gift, any gift has no work attached to it", then farther down you say:

"Christ did the work for us and made us by his work righteous to the Father through him so we can get the gift of the new life"

Now explain how it is "we can get" without doing "some thing" (work) to "get" it?

 

[homwardbound]

Once saved always saved, another false doctrine :

Acts 8:12-13 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.

Simon was saved, you have to reject this, the bible says he was saved.

Now Simon falls from grace:

Acts 8:18-19 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit."

Simon sinned, falling from Grace, thinking he could "buy" the Holy Spirit, and what does Peter tell him :

Acts 8:20-24 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
[SUP]21 [/SUP]You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.
[SUP]22[/SUP]Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then Simon answered and said, "Pray to the Lord for me, that none of the things which you have spoken may come upon me."

We see Simon saved, falling from Grace, rebuked by Peter, Simon repents and asks Peter to pray for him that those things (what things? lost salvation) don't happen to him.

Your once saved always saved is shot down with these few verses.

Thank you for your righteous behavior from and in the Spirit of God?
Or is it from God or are you in your own righteous indignation, only you know the truth in this and God,
Maybe you might need repent yourself and believe God, i don't know, But I have and trust Father through Son as Christ's work completed and by Faith in this finished work I have entered his rest he called not only me into, but all the world is called, based on whether one believes God or not.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Ok now you wish to add judgmental to your list. So be it. the measure by which you judge others you shall be judged.

I wonder if you have read the verses you post. if you do you apparently do not understand them.

Who are those folks who are wise in their own conceits?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I go by the bible, I will be judged by the bible, if you don't go by the bible it is the bible that judges you, not me, I only make you aware of it.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Thank you for your righteous behavior from and in the Spirit of God?
Or is it from God or are you in your own righteous indignation, only you know the truth in this and God,
Maybe you might need repent yourself and believe God, i don't know, But I have and trust Father through Son as Christ's work completed and by Faith in this finished work I have entered his rest he called not only me into, but all the world is called, based on whether one believes God or not.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

He did His part, now you and I must do ours :

John 14:21 (NKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."