Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[Cassian]

OH YES HE DID! I will tell you details of part of my testimony that I have never told anyone before. The night I was saved, after my third attempt a suicide, I had a vision, and I was standing at the foot of the Cross crying and staring up at Him, knowing that each one my sins were like putting another one pound weight on HIM. As I sobbed begging for HIS forgiveness, I saw several blood drops fall and splash on my forearms AND felt the warmth of that blood. I KNEW THAT BLOOD WAS CLEANSING ME OF MY SINS, HE DIED FOR THEM PERSONALLY, AS WELL AS EVERY PERSON THAT IS A TRUE BELIEVER. That is where the vision ended, but I KNEW I was FORGIVEN TOTALLY. I laid there on that floor probably another hour, continuing to SOB but the mourning over my sinfulness was replaced with a heavy burden for the great price HE PAID FOR ME.

I am sorry to hear of your particular situation. However, several theological issues here.
One, doctrine is not made on the basis of one person's experience.
Secondly, Christ died for the sin of the world, not just yours or any other believer.
Thirdly, that does not constitute being saved. You believed, but now comes the test of your faith. It is all about abiding IN HIM. That is what maturing faith constitutes. We are to grow, to become more like Christ. Our personal salvation is all in the living of it.

 

[VCO]

I don't think you can. But having possession does not mean one has inherited the end result. Many believers have fallen away. If we lose faith, we lose salvation, that is the possession of it.

Here is an analogy. If you take a mortgage out on a house which YOU bought. The law recognizes that you OWN that home. However, you have not actually gotten the title to that home. YOu will NOT get it unless you meet the requirement of making ALL the payments, not some of them. You will be given the title ONLY if you meet the contract stipulations.
One's salvation is the exact same thing. It is the same for every single contract that I know of. I would like to see your employer pay you for sitting home for forty years, after signing a work agreement that you would work. As the saying goes, no work, no pay. Very simple to understand. A believer is in a contract, it is called a Covenant, and both sides have made commitments that they must keep. If either breaks that covenant it is dead. God has promised that He will never forsake us, never leave us, but man cannot make those kinds of promises. He can only promise in the present.

NO, Paul says very clearly, those who lose faith and walk away, never to return; are ALL people who never had genuine faith and salvation in the first place:

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

 

[VCO]

I am sorry to hear of your particular situation. However, several theological issues here.
One, doctrine is not made on the basis of one person's experience.
Secondly, Christ died for the sin of the world, not just yours or any other believer.
Thirdly, that does not constitute being saved. You believed, but now comes the test of your faith. It is all about abiding IN HIM. That is what maturing faith constitutes. We are to grow, to become more like Christ. Our personal salvation is all in the living of it.

Did I forget to mention that I was SAVED in 1978?

Did I forget to mention HE has been running my life as LORD ever since?

Did I forget to mention HE has changed me, and spiritually Matured me, used me to serve HIM and others ever since?

Did I forget to mention that HE has filled me with Joy and Peace almost every day since?

Did I forget to mention that HE filled me with a HUNGER for His Word, that has lasted ever since?


By the way, PAUL said it was VERY PERSONAL.

1 Timothy 1:15-16 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—and I am the worst of them.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I received mercy for this reason, so that in me, the worst ⌊of them⌋, Christ Jesus might demonstrate His extraordinary patience as an example to those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

And Jeremiah said it was VERY PERSONAL.

Jeremiah 17:14 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Heal me, LORD, and I will be healed; save me, and I will be saved, for You are my praise.

David said it was VERY PERSONAL.

Psalm 116:6-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] The LORD guards the inexperienced; I was helpless, and He saved me.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Return to your rest, my soul, for the LORD has been good to you.
Isaiah said it was VERY PERSONAL.

Isaiah 38:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "Lo, for my own welfare I had great bitterness; It is You who has kept my soul from the pit of nothingness, For You have cast all my sins behind Your back.

How about this one? I sounds VERY PERSONAL TO ME.

2 Samuel 22:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] my God, my mountain where I seek refuge. My shield, the horn of my salvation, my stronghold, my refuge, and my Savior, You save me from violence.

2 Samuel 22:7 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] I called to the LORD in my distress; I called to my God. From His temple He heard my voice, and my cry for help ⌊reached⌋ His ears.

You know, I think I will just Believe what the BIBLE says instead of what you say.

 

[mailmandan]

If you stick with your first statements in these paragraphs you would have the correct understanding of faith/works. But in every instance you create a contradiction with your last statments.

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5) yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.* No contradiction at all.

If you ask the reverse, can you be saved without works? How would you answer?

If someone claims to have faith but they have no works, then they have an empty profession of faith, a dead faith, not a living faith. Faith that is void of works cannot save and it's not because works have some kind of intrinsic merit to save our souls but because they prove or manifest the genuineness of our faith. Faith and works are like a two coupon ticket to heaven. The coupon of works is not good for passage and the coupon of faith is invalid if void of works. Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation. No fruit demonstrates no root.

 

[BradC]

To love another individual with the love of God through the Spirit is a work of love and to continue in that love is also a work of a ministry of love. To minister grace to anyone who has failed or wronged you and to not hold a grudge or want revenge is a work of love. To not think evil of another when they have done evil is a work of love. The fruit of the Spirit is first the love of God and it provides the framework for joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness and temperance. The faith that we have received from God works and is motivated by a love that is without hypocrisy and does not seek its own (Gal 5:6, Rom 12:9, 1Cor 13:5). All of the law is fulfilled in one word, love thy neighbor as thyself (Gal 5:14). So if any is looking for some kind of work that reveals Christ in the believer's life, look for the love of God first, who first loved us and gave us His Son.

 

[VCO]

I am sorry to hear of your particular situation. However, several theological issues here.
One, doctrine is not made on the basis of one person's experience.
Secondly, Christ died for the sin of the world, not just yours or any other believer.
Thirdly, that does not constitute being saved. You believed, but now comes the test of your faith. It is all about abiding IN HIM. That is what maturing faith constitutes. We are to grow, to become more like Christ. Our personal salvation is all in the living of it.

><>t<><

NOW it is my turn to ask you some questions.

Have you ever out of love surrendered control of your life to Jesus as LORD and MASTER? Have you ever REALLY let HIM into your heart?

Revelation 3:19-20 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.

Christ being me, and I in Christ, has been VERY REAL to me since HE SAVED ME in 1978.

Do you hear HIM speak to you as you read HIS WORD? Or is that less than personal too?

My relationship with Jesus Christ is VERY PERSONAL, filled with a deep LOVE, and is Always there.

Show me your LOVE FOR CHRIST, is it there?

Show me your willing submission to HIM purely out of LOVE for HIM, is it there?

Show me you really HEAR HIM, or are they just words on a page?

And show me your inner personal Relationship with HIM, is that REAL at all to you?

John 10:27-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all.
No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Your responses seem so cold and academic, I have to ask these questions.

 

[VCO]

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5) yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.* No contradiction at all.



If someone claims to have faith but they have no works, then they have an empty profession of faith, a dead faith, not a living faith. Faith that is void of works cannot save and it's not because works have some kind of intrinsic merit to save our souls but because they prove or manifest the genuineness of our faith. Faith and works are like a two coupon ticket to heaven. The coupon of works is not good for passage and the coupon of faith is invalid if void of works. Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation. No fruit demonstrates no root.

AMEN! I agree wholeheartedly.

By the way Dan, do you know the best kind of mailman to be?

A retired Christian mailman.

 

[SeaBass]

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5) yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.* No contradiction at all.

1) You first post "faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works"

What if a Christians' faith is NOT confirmed by good works? Will he be saved anyway?


2) The problem not being understood by some here is that the "works" of Eph 2:9; "our works" of 2 Tim 1:9 and works "we have done" of Titus 3: refer to works of merit. I think eveyone her can agree that worksof merit do not sved anyone.

The problem arises when people DO NOT distinguish between DIFFERENT types of works the bible speaks about and the attmepts to lump all works together as if all works ar the same when they are not. EPh 2:9; 2 Tiom 1:9; Titus 3:5 do NOT eliminate obedient works and obedient works are not in anyway the same kind of owrks as work of merit. Paul makes a clear disicntion between works of meirt that do not sve and obeidnet works that do save in Rom 10:3.


Heb 11:7 "Was Noah trying to meirt his salvation when he worked by moving with fear, preparing an ark to the sving of his house? No
Heb 11:8 was Abraham trying to merit his salvation by being odedient to God in leaving his house land and kindred? No.

So attempting to lump obedient works into Eph 2:9; 2 Tim 1:9 and Titus 3:5 creates a multitude of contradictions. Paul plainly taught the necessity of obeident works in being saved in Rom 6. So he would not CONTRADICT himself by saying in other verses that obedient works are not necessary to salvation.

 

[Cassian]

NO, Paul says very clearly, those who lose faith and walk away, never to return; are ALL people who never had genuine faith and salvation in the first place:

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

It is not a matter of genuine faith, but faith. These were people who made it obvious by their leaving they were no longer part of the Body of Christ. Many don't leave, and as human beings we do not know.

 

[Cassian]

Did I forget to mention that I was SAVED in 1978?

Did I forget to mention HE has been running my life as LORD ever since?

Did I forget to mention HE has changed me, and spiritually Matured me, used me to serve HIM and others ever since?

Did I forget to mention that HE has filled me with Joy and Peace almost every day since?

Did I forget to mention that HE filled me with a HUNGER for His Word, that has lasted ever since?


By the way, PAUL said it was VERY PERSONAL.

1 Timothy 1:15-16 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—and I am the worst of them.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But I received mercy for this reason, so that in me, the worst ⌊of them⌋, Christ Jesus might demonstrate His extraordinary patience as an example to those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

And Jeremiah said it was VERY PERSONAL.

Jeremiah 17:14 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Heal me, LORD, and I will be healed; save me, and I will be saved, for You are my praise.

David said it was VERY PERSONAL.

Psalm 116:6-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]The LORD guards the inexperienced; I was helpless, and He saved me.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Return to your rest, my soul, for the LORD has been good to you.
Isaiah said it was VERY PERSONAL.

Isaiah 38:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]"Lo, for my own welfare I had great bitterness; It is You who has kept my soul from the pit of nothingness, For You have cast all my sins behind Your back.

How about this one? I sounds VERY PERSONAL TO ME.

2 Samuel 22:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]my God, my mountain where I seek refuge. My shield, the horn of my salvation, my stronghold, my refuge, and my Savior, You save me from violence.

2 Samuel 22:7 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]I called to the LORD in my distress; I called to my God. From His temple He heard my voice, and my cry for help ⌊reached⌋ His ears.

You know, I think I will just Believe what the BIBLE says instead of what you say.

Again, this is all based on YOUR experience which does not make doctrine.

Why the emphasis on "personal"? Our relationship with Christ is personal. It is our personal salvation, no one else's.

Not one of these indicates that one is either saved by faith only, nor do they indicate a "permanent" salvation upon belief.

 

[SeaBass]

He did not tell everyone to be baptized. He did command everyone to repent.

Thats all you need to know..

Next.

Peter said to his crwod for each one to be baptized. Now who in the crowd does this omit? No one, for it INCLUDES each and every one.

Yes he did. He used a 2nd person command to repent.For those of us who understand language, It means people spoken to. Then he switched to a third person singular. Which again for those who study, Know a 3rd person means it is someone or something who is spoken about not too. The subject in the clause is remmision of sin, So he was speaking to those who had recieved remission of sin.





The only problem with this is both yours are second person. Nice try but it does not fit.

the only reason she would use a third person is if not everyone wrote a report. Then she would say you go read a book, and you can get extra credit for writing a report.

Only those who write the report get extra credit. The third person subject is report.

Nice try, But you need to study more. [/QUOTE]

So when the teacher said "each one of you write a report" which of the 30 students did that omit from writing a report?

The EXACT same students she told to go to the library are the same EXACT same students she told to write a report.

The EXACT same people Peter commanded to repent are the EXACT same people Peter commanded to be baptized.


You are misusing grammar in trying to find a way to get around the precise language Peter used, that being, his language did not omit anyone in his crowd from either repenting or being baptized.

 

[Cassian]

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5) yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.* No contradiction at all.



If someone claims to have faith but they have no works, then they have an empty profession of faith, a dead faith, not a living faith. Faith that is void of works cannot save and it's not because works have some kind of intrinsic merit to save our souls but because they prove or manifest the genuineness of our faith. Faith and works are like a two coupon ticket to heaven. The coupon of works is not good for passage and the coupon of faith is invalid if void of works. Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation. No fruit demonstrates no root.

So why all the arguement that works is not what saves us. It is the very content of one's faith. YOu cannot separate the two. Every time the word "faith" is used in the NT, it is implying the works. You cannot have one without the other.
And our salvation is through faith/works.

 

[SeaBass]

I agree that genuine Salvation will produce the desire and ability via the Holy Spirit in us to do good works.

HOWEVER, if you are saying you must earn part of your Salvation via your works, you will fin it IMPOSSIBLE to make that theory square with this Scripture:

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]If anyone builds on that foundation with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw,
[SUP]13 [/SUP]each one’s work will become obvious, for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire; the fire will test the quality of each one’s work.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]If anyone’s work that he has built survives, he will receive a reward.
[SUP]15[/SUP]If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire.

I think that makes it OBVIOUS, works have nothing to do with Salvation, but they do have a lot to do with heavenly Rewards.

I never said one earns his salvation, that is a strawman that the faith only proponents continue to use.

Now you posted "I agree that genuine Salvation will produce the desire and ability via the Holy Spirit in us to do good works".

My question is; what if a Christian does not do those good works. Will he be saved anyway?



In the context of 1 Cor 3, the "works" in that context refer to converts. Paul is talking about building the church and the "work" necessary in building the church is the work of making converts. So if ones' work (convert) is lost/burned up, then Paul himself will not be lost as long as he remains faithful, 1 Cor 9:27. If Paul's work (convert) abides/remains faithful, then Paul will receive a reward for that "work".
"

 

[Cassian]

><>t<><

NOW it is my turn to ask you some questions.

Have you ever out of love surrendered control of your life to Jesus as LORD and MASTER? Have you ever REALLY let HIM into your heart?

Revelation 3:19-20 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.

Christ being me, and I in Christ, has been VERY REAL to me since HE SAVED ME in 1978.

Do you hear HIM speak to you as you read HIS WORD? Or is that less than personal too?

My relationship with Jesus Christ is VERY PERSONAL, filled with a deep LOVE, and is Always there.

Show me your LOVE FOR CHRIST, is it there?

Show me your willing submission to HIM purely out of LOVE for HIM, is it there?

Show me you really HEAR HIM, or are they just words on a page?

And show me your inner personal Relationship with HIM, is that REAL at all to you?

John 10:27-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all.
No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Your responses seem so cold and academic, I have to ask these questions.

First, this is not a forum for exchanging faith experiences. It is apolgetic in nature. It is about what scripture means, what the Gospel means.
I try to keep out my experiences because, as I have noted, experience doess not dictate what scripture means.

There are a lot of sincere people who sincerely believe what they believe, but are not Christians. We live what we believe. This is why experience is not relevant in an apolgetic forum. A Mormon is as sincere as you have stated above, if you have ever witnessed to a Mormon. Or a Jehovah's Witness would be another example.

 

[Cassian]

1) You first post "faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works"

What if a Christians' faith is NOT confirmed by good works? Will he be saved anyway?


2) The problem not being understood by some here is that the "works" of Eph 2:9; "our works" of 2 Tim 1:9 and works "we have done" of Titus 3: refer to works of merit. I think eveyone her can agree that worksof merit do not sved anyone.

The problem arises when people DO NOT distinguish between DIFFERENT types of works the bible speaks about and the attmepts to lump all works together as if all works ar the same when they are not. EPh 2:9; 2 Tiom 1:9; Titus 3:5 do NOT eliminate obedient works and obedient works are not in anyway the same kind of owrks as work of merit. Paul makes a clear disicntion between works of meirt that do not sve and obeidnet works that do save in Rom 10:3.


Heb 11:7 "Was Noah trying to meirt his salvation when he worked by moving with fear, preparing an ark to the sving of his house? No
Heb 11:8 was Abraham trying to merit his salvation by being odedient to God in leaving his house land and kindred? No.

So attempting to lump obedient works into Eph 2:9; 2 Tim 1:9 and Titus 3:5 creates a multitude of contradictions. Paul plainly taught the necessity of obeident works in being saved in Rom 6. So he would not CONTRADICT himself by saying in other verses that obedient works are not necessary to salvation.

I was with you until this post. I have no idea of what you are trying to convey here at all.

 

[notuptome]

So why all the arguement that works is not what saves us. It is the very content of one's faith. YOu cannot separate the two. Every time the word "faith" is used in the NT, it is implying the works. You cannot have one without the other.
And our salvation is through faith/works.

It is not our faith or our works but the faith of Christ and the works of Christ. Gal 2:16, Phil 3:9

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[homwardbound]

Amen, As Peter made so clear. It does not remove the "filth" from the "flesh"

When you get water baptized, Your fleshly sin still remains, Your still a dirty filthy sinner, just a wet one. (until as you said, the sun drys you off)

The only thing water Baptism is good for is a good conscience between God and you, if that be ones motive otherwise it is fruitless and is a showmanship to others to receive from man; pats on the back and make one feel good about self as if God is proud of our flesh efforts that are not perfect only Christ's flesh was and is and as John said that he only Baptized with water for repentance, where as Christ came to baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

In blood no remission of sins without the shedding of Blood and Christ is the last sacrifice and shedding of blood.
Time to be bathed in the shed blood of Christ maybe?

 

[homwardbound]

Baptism was never meant to remove filth from the flesh, as this is a spiritual cleansing. Men are not saving men, God is. When you're baptized you are imitating the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. When a person is baptized they are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, this my friend is the authority which validates the baptism. No one receives what the Apostles received as far as the gifts given to them by the Holy Spirit, it's given to them to help bring attention to the ministry of Jesus Christ, and after it accomplishes it's goal, then all of these gifts will cease to be, and that time has already come and gone when the last Apostle died. You cannot perform miracle, you cannot speak in tongues, meaning speaking in another persons language or dialect, so you see these have ended.

Really, so then my sheep hear my voice today is not valid anymore?
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Other sheep Gentiles, maybe?
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Whose voice do we hear the disciples, the Apostles or Father's voice through them and talks to us in our Spirit without them as well. The Bible is real truth and has the truth in it, yet it is not the Bible that sets one free, rather the truth of it and that is only revealed by Father through the comforter sent to us to teach us all truth that sets us free in Father right or wrong Brother?


There is a flesh interpretation and God's right?

 

[homwardbound]

The thief was saved by Jesus himself as he did with many others while he was on earth. They were still under the O.T. law which means those who obeyed God were saved by faith, you and I are under the Christian era which means we are saved when we repent and are baptized in the name of Jesus for the remissions of our sins.

Who does this Baptism Brother, man or God?
John 3:8
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

It is God that does this not man, and I remember when I got water Baptized to learn from God and was tricked into flesh deception by this. When I went to another Church and said I was baptized in a different Church, I was told I was not saved until I got baptized in their Church. This I checked out further and went to many more and the very same thing was said in each, that unless I was Baptized in their Church, water I was not saved

Now that is man doing God's work in and of themselves, so in essence it is not God's work is it? Or is it?

 

[homwardbound]

The Apostles were the ONLY ones baptized with the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, so too were the house of Cornelius, yet HS baptism did not save them, else Peter would not have told them "there is water" and to "be baptized".

Acts 10:47-48 (KJV) [SUP]47 [/SUP] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? [SUP]48 [/SUP] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

There is only 1 baptism that saves man, only 1 is commanded,

Ephesians 4:5 (KJV) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

so which time did they sin? they didn't, the Lord baptized them with the Holy Spirit, this showed not only the Gentile, but Peter and the apostles he was not a respecter of person...

Acts 11:17 (KJV) Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Notice Peter did not say the like gift he gave to "everybody", the HS baptism was for the Apostles and the House of Cornelius (only), it was the "water baptism that is for "everybody. It was when they were water baptized that their sins were remitted, just like Paul's were :

Acts 22:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'



When men baptize other men, the men save nobody, when men baptize other men,

 Matthew 28:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

"in the name of" or by the "authority of", they obey the commandment of our Lord and the Lord saves them :

Acts 2:41 (KJV) Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Acts 2:47 (KJV) Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Sorry I completely disagree with you, for Peter realized later that they had received life before water Baptism and saw truth that is all God and not man. That God has no respect of persons
Do you not see you defy the free gift God the Father through Son by commanding one must do in order to get when God gave without any works of our own

And the one and only Baptism is not water it is the Holy Ghost Baptism from Father through Son

John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

so are you denying God's Baptism of the Holy Spirit of truth to lead you?