Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship?

[Timeline]

why then did the apostles and all the believers quote Psalm 2 when they prayed?

On their release, Peter and John went back to their own people and reported all that the chief priests and the elders had said to them. When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God.
“Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.
You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David:“

‘Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
The kings of the earth rise up
and the rulers band together
against the Lord
and against his anointed one.

(Acts 4:23-26)

and why do those wonderful verses in Ephesians & Colossians say to communicate with each other in "psalms" ?
are you more concerned with how your voice sounds than the words that come out of your mouth?

don't let Psalms "get in your way" --
but get in the way of the psalmist yourself!

The one who offers thanksgiving as his sacrifice glorifies me;
to one who orders his way rightly
I will show the salvation of God!
(Psalm 50:23)

i am thankful to think that the Most High could stoop to hear what feeble praise this unruly creation could offer!

hey posthuman - I don't think I would have even given that comment a response. Psalms was taken out of the way by Christ - Most of it is about Jesus.

 

[T-REX]

I am not twisting anything. Those that say that the bible says that we are not allowed to use instruments are adding to scripture. The bible give no such command. The Samaritan was thankful and for that Jesus, himself removed the obligation to go and see the priests (as the law clearly dictates). A command not to use instruments is poor speculation at best. The old testament and new testament mentions instruments and no where does is say that they are wrong. However, if you think they are wrong then they are wrong for you - not everyone else.

What if Naaman dipped six times or eight times? God didn't say he couldn't? you want it both ways. God did punish those who added to or took away from. instruments are not authorized in the worship service. to add them is to add to scripture. logical conclusion shows there are consequences for thinking you can make something better then what God authorizes. In II samuel 7 David took it upon himself to build a house for the Lord, I mean what harm could that do, isn't that a noble cause? it doesn't matter what WE want. God told him he never asked for a house and that he himself would build house that would not perish indeed a Kingdom that would last forever! the scriptures are clear.

 

[LT]

What difference does it make who joined this forum and when they joined?

i believe you are out of line with this. What difference does it make?

I perhaps was out of line by saying it.
As a moderator on another forum, I do know what I was saying, but I had no right to say it in this thread.

 

[Timeline]

What if Naaman dipped six times or eight times? God didn't say he couldn't? you want it both ways. God did punish those who added to or took away from. instruments are not authorized in the worship service. to add them is to add to scripture. logical conclusion shows there are consequences for thinking you can make something better then what God authorizes. In II samuel 7 David took it upon himself to build a house for the Lord, I mean what harm could that do, isn't that a noble cause? it doesn't matter what WE want. God told him he never asked for a house and that he himself would build house that would not perish indeed a Kingdom that would last forever! the scriptures are clear.

That's just it - The scriptures are not very clear that we should not use instruments. This has been injected into the scripture.

 

[posthuman]

hey posthuman - I don't think I would have even given that comment a response. Psalms was taken out of the way by Christ - Most of it is about Jesus.

my accuracy #'s look better when i aim at big, obvious targets!

 

[Jabberjaw]

I perhaps was out of line by saying it.
As a moderator on another forum, I do know what I was saying, but I had no right to say it in this thread.

I as a moderator and administrator on another forum also know what you are saying, and you have no business getting involved with moderation of this forum, influence of infraction etc, you have no right but to be another user, respect this forums rules just like everyone else, that's it.

 

[TaylorTG]

As a member of the Church of Christ I cannot believe what has happened in the last twenty years in which some Churches of Christ have decided to add instruments to their worshipping, which I feel is a sin. If you are a member of a Church of Christ who has instruments in your church, tell me where you got your authorization to do this? What has changed in the last twenty years to change how you have decided to worship with instruments when the Churches of Christ prior to the last twenty years were always instrument free .

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LMAO!

 

[Alligator]

................................................................................



LMAO!

I realize you're only 16, but I think you still know better than to make a post like that.

 

[Stephen63]

Christ permanently took the OT law out of the way making it inactive, of no effect, Col 2:14; Heb 10:9. The above verses are no more binging upon the NT Christians than the OT verses that speak of animal sacrifices, purifications, circumcision, etc, etc.
Deut 5, the OT law was only given to the Jews to keep, it was never given to Gentiles or NT Christians or anyone else to keep.
Furthermore, in Rom 7:1-7 Paul says it is sinful for a NT Christian who is married to Christ and His NT gospel to also keep the OT law.

Just two men doing their own thing....."going about to establish their own righteousness" Rom 10:3

Ephesians 5:18-20 (KJV) [SUP]18 [/SUP]And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; [SUP]19 [/SUP]Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; [SUP]20 [/SUP]Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Greek Strong's Number: 5567
Greek Word: ψάλλω
Transliteration: psallō
Phonetic Pronunciation:

psal'-lo
Root: probably strengthened from psao (to rub or touch the surface, cf <G5597>)
Cross Reference: TDNT - 8:489,1225
Part of Speech: v
Vine's Words: Melody, Praise, Sing, Singing



Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:
sing 3
sing psalms 1
make melody 1
[Total Count: 5]

probably strengthened from psao (to rub or touch the surface; compare <G5597> (psocho)); to twitch or twang, i.e. to play on a stringed instrument (celebrate the divine worship with music and accompanying odes) :- make melody, sing (psalms).

You have read the quotes in this thread of the harps playing in Heaven that's accepted by God, the Old Testament Levites who sang & played instruments, the Psalms that speak of using all types of instruments, & this NT scripture with it's Greek meaning. God doesn't change. If He likes it in Heaven & in the OT temple, He likes it in His church, plain & simple. Shoving a scripture about will worship down our throats proves nothing because your interpretation of that stands against several qualified scriptures. All I see so far is blowing a lot of smoke & being contentious by falsly judging other churches for using music. Seems to me if you're that concerned about the Scriptures, you'd write about something more important than this & quit making mountains out of molehills. Understanding that there's much more important issues to deal with, this seems rather childish.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Ephesians 5:18-20 (KJV) [SUP]18 [/SUP]And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; [SUP]19 [/SUP]Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; [SUP]20 [/SUP]Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Greek Strong's Number: 5567
Greek Word: ψάλλω
Transliteration: psallō
Phonetic Pronunciation:

psal'-lo
Root: probably strengthened from psao (to rub or touch the surface, cf <G5597>)
Cross Reference: TDNT - 8:489,1225
Part of Speech: v
Vine's Words: Melody, Praise, Sing, Singing



Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:
sing 3
sing psalms 1
make melody 1
[Total Count: 5]

probably strengthened from psao (to rub or touch the surface; compare <G5597> (psocho)); to twitch or twang, i.e. to play on a stringed instrument (celebrate the divine worship with music and accompanying odes) :- make melody, sing (psalms).

You have read the quotes in this thread of the harps playing in Heaven that's accepted by God, the Old Testament Levites who sang & played instruments, the Psalms that speak of using all types of instruments, & this NT scripture with it's Greek meaning. God doesn't change. If He likes it in Heaven & in the OT temple, He likes it in His church, plain & simple. Shoving a scripture about will worship down our throats proves nothing because your interpretation of that stands against several qualified scriptures. All I see so far is blowing a lot of smoke & being contentious by falsly judging other churches for using music. Seems to me if you're that concerned about the Scriptures, you'd write about something more important than this & quit making mountains out of molehills. Understanding that there's much more important issues to deal with, this seems rather childish.

Psallo never defines the instrument that is plucked or twanged, just like baptizo never says what one is baptized in, it must be taken from the context...

Now what is the instrument that the strings are plucked in Eph 5:19 and Col 3:16, Paul says its the heart, the heart is the instrument that by context defines what is Psallo'd...

 

[breno785au]

This all becomes pretty ludicrous when you realise that all of creation is basically a vibrating symphony of balanced majesty. Yes, EVERYTHING vibrates, just like what music is.

 

[Tintin]

I as a moderator and administrator on another forum also know what you are saying, and you have no business getting involved with moderation of this forum, influence of infraction etc, you have no right but to be another user, respect this forums rules just like everyone else, that's it.

Good grief! LT apologised and then you still feel the need to hammer him further into the ground? Not cool.

 

[Stephen63]

Psallo never defines the instrument that is plucked or twanged, just like baptizo never says what one is baptized in, it must be taken from the context...

Now what is the instrument that the strings are plucked in Eph 5:19 and Col 3:16, Paul says its the heart, the heart is the instrument that by context defines what is Psallo'd...

Barne's Notes:
And making melody. Melody is an agreeable succession of sounds; a succession so regulated and modulated as to please the ear. It differs from harmony, inasmuch as melody is an agreeable succession of sounds by a single voice; harmony consists in the accordance of different sounds. It is not certain, however, that the apostle here had reference to what is properly called melody. The word which he uses—ψάλλω means to touch, twitch, pluck as the hair, the beard; and then to twitch a string-to twang it—as the string of a bow, and then the string of an instrument of music. It is most frequently used in the sense of touching or playing a lyre, or a harp; and then it denotes to make music in general, to sing-perhaps usually with the idea of being accompanied with a lyre or harp.

Bible Background Commentary:
5:19. Both Greeks and Jews commonly believed that music could come by inspiration, an idea that appears in the Old Testament as well. Paul emphasizes the kind of worship that Jewish people celebrated in the temple (e.g., psalms and hymns); we cannot be sure whether most other Jewish gatherings, such as those in synagogues, included the singing of psalms and hymns in this period. “Spiritual songs” probably refers to Spirit-inspired songs (cf. 1 Chron. 25:1-6), possibly spontaneous, which would clearly distinguish Christian worship from nearly all worship in antiquity (cf. 1 Cor. 14:15).

The Bible Knowledge Commentary:
5:13. Perhaps the two greatest weaknesses in the average church today are the areas of prayer and praise. The reason for these weaknesses may be traced to insensitivity. There is much need for prayer and much cause to praise. Suffering should elicit prayer. Sufficiency should elicit praise. James used several questions to stress these points. Is any one of you in trouble? “In trouble” (kakopathei, “suffering ill”; cf. v. 10) relates to suffering from any source. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. “Praise” (psalletō) originally meant “to play on a stringed instrument.” The verb is used only four times in the New Testament (cf. Rom. 15:9; 1 Cor. 14:15; Eph. 5:19).

Jaimeson-Faucett-Brown Commentary:
Verse 19. (Col 3:16).

to yourselves -- "to one another." Hence soon arose the antiphonal or responsive chanting of which PLINY writes to Trajan: "They are wont on a fixed day to meet before daylight [to avoid persecution] and to recite a hymn among themselves by turns, to Christ, as if being God." The Spirit gives true eloquence; wine, a spurious eloquence.

psalms -- generally accompanied by an instrument.

hymns -- in direct praise to God (compare Ac 16:25 1Co 14:26 Jas 5:13).

songs -- the general term for lyric pieces; "spiritual" is added to mark their being here restricted to sacred subjects, though not merely to direct praises of God, but also containing exhortations, prophecies, &c. Contrast the drunken "songs," Am 8:10.

making melody -- Greek, "playing and singing with an instrument."

I sincerely hope you won't dispute with these guys.......

 

[Jabberjaw]

Good grief! LT apologised and then you still feel the need to hammer him further into the ground? Not cool.

Apologized? how about reinstating the one he had part in getting banned for posting scripture?

 

[Shava]

Ephesians 5:18-20 (KJV) [SUP]18 [/SUP]And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; [SUP]19 [/SUP]Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; [SUP]20 [/SUP]Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Greek Strong's Number: 5567
Greek Word: ψάλλω
Transliteration: psallō
Phonetic Pronunciation:

psal'-lo
Root: probably strengthened from psao (to rub or touch the surface, cf <G5597>)
Cross Reference: TDNT - 8:489,1225
Part of Speech: v
Vine's Words: Melody, Praise, Sing, Singing



Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:
sing 3
sing psalms 1
make melody 1
[Total Count: 5]

probably strengthened from psao (to rub or touch the surface; compare <G5597> (psocho)); to twitch or twang, i.e. to play on a stringed instrument (celebrate the divine worship with music and accompanying odes) :- make melody, sing (psalms).

You have read the quotes in this thread of the harps playing in Heaven that's accepted by God, the Old Testament Levites who sang & played instruments, the Psalms that speak of using all types of instruments, & this NT scripture with it's Greek meaning. God doesn't change. If He likes it in Heaven & in the OT temple, He likes it in His church, plain & simple. Shoving a scripture about will worship down our throats proves nothing because your interpretation of that stands against several qualified scriptures. All I see so far is blowing a lot of smoke & being contentious by falsly judging other churches for using music. Seems to me if you're that concerned about the Scriptures, you'd write about something more important than this & quit making mountains out of molehills. Understanding that there's much more important issues to deal with, this seems rather childish.

Since we are in the N.T era shouldn't we go according to N.T. laws? The O.T is no longer because it's been done away with, and heaven isn't here yet, so to me it looks like N.T. is where we have to get our commands on whether or not we should use instruments or just sing, and it looks like singing only is the command for us now. God obviously has a reason for choosing singing only , and I sure wish I knew why because that would settle all these debates on singing or instruments which have at times been a pain. I like instruments as I play the drums but I can honestly say that I do see that he desires or I should say commands singing. Some of my friends on here believe that instruments are allowed and I respect that.

 

[Stephen63]

Apologized? how about reinstating the one he had part in getting banned for posting scripture?

How do you know whether he did it or not?

 

[posthuman]

Psallo never defines the instrument that is plucked or twanged, just like baptizo never says what one is baptized in, it must be taken from the context...

the context is "speaking to one another in psalms"

They have seen thy goings, O God;

even the goings of my God, my King, in the sanctuary.
​

The singers went before, the players on instruments followed after;

among them were the damsels playing with timbrels.
​

Bless ye God in the congregations, even the Lord, from the fountain of Israel.

(Psalm 68:24-26)

​

please, if you have a comment to make, use a psalm, hymn or spiritual song to make it. for the sake of conscience.

 

[posthuman]

& thanks be to God for this thread, which has me reading so many Psalms!
doing so has put thanksgiving, melody & gladness in my heart

 

[LT]

Apologized? how about reinstating the one he had part in getting banned for posting scripture?

how am i getting connected to the ban?

i'm sorry that your friend said that expressing talents to glorify God is what kept the Israelites from salvation, and continues to keep people from salvation, but I didn't bait her into it.
If the mods thought she went too far, then that's on them, not me.

 

[Shava]

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LMAO!

Why do you feel that my post brings you to say that?