Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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Did not state that God needed man to abolish Satan. That is one of the Reasons that God used His Son to redeem the world back to Himself. It has nothing to do with man but that God was Sovereign and Satan was not going to be the permanent ruler of this world through the power of death.
I agree with the rest of what you stated.
K
Kerry
Guest
I never said we didn't try. when you or anybody else got saved, the Holy Spirit drew you and convicted you and by faith you acted on it. Faith is an action and we must be willing to faithfully act on the guidance or urging of The Holy Spirit. Therefore, it is not our own, but led by the Spirit.
I think we are somewhat speaking past each other. Nothing man does, does He do alone. We are not independent creatures. Everything we have comes from God and we live, move and have our being through God.
The Holy Spirit works upon every single human being. None of us are any different than the next human being. We are all of the same essence, man, and all were created the same way, for the same reason.
Every man was created free, man is a moral agent. He has a rational soul. God gave us His revelation besides so that we might know Him. Man's will becomes the fulcrum of man's desires. God is influence man to choose Him, and Satan on the other hand is influencing man to chose him. Neither one can force man to do anything against his own will, desire. Man is thus the determinate of who he will serve, and in so doing also determines his eternal position.
So, the bottom line is that man is the center of his salvation, his personal salvation, what is called the salvation of ones soul.
K
Kerry
Guest
I agree, I think we are looking at the ball from different views, sometimes we view things a little different, but we are looking at the same thing.
You are not understanding me, I know what you said. But what I am saying is Christian Water Baptism IS NOT Spiritual Baptism or as you put it, spiritual rebirth. Christian Water Baptism is what you do AFTER your spiritual rebirth.
Personally Taylor, I think we are ALL extremely fortunate that GOD is also a Merciful GOD that does not give us what we do deserve.
You know Cassian, if you and I could ever agree on terminology definitions, we would have far less to disagree on. For Example.
I believe Salvation and our Christian walk are two different things, and I suspect you think they are the same thing.
1 John 2:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] The one who says he remains in Him should walk just as He walked.
Colossians 2:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
My understanding is Our Chrisitan Walk is something we do because He saved us. Not something we do to get saved.
Amen! Acts 10:43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.. AFTER they believed and already received Spirit baptism.
1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. Not to be confused with water baptism. See John 4:10,14; 7:38-39.
Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation - having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.
So your saying because God is sovereign, that he is in full control of whether someone "hears"? in other words God is culpable for someone "not hearing"? therefore if someone is lost because faith cometh by hearing and they would not hear, aren't you saying that it is Gods fault they are lost?
Depends on just you mean by being "saved". Saved in the past tense refers to the work that Christ did for us and for all human beings. He saved us from death and sin. He reversed the fall for us because we could not.
God requires that we believe that Christ did in fact save us from death and sin. That belief is what justifies us and permits one to enter into Christ. Entering into Christ we take possession of our personal salvation but it is never a finite thing. It is always a walking, a living, a following, enduring, growing etc. It is never static. Thus the walk is our salvation IF we do the commands that Christ requires of us.
If our walk depends on our faith, and remaining faithful, then at any time we depart or reject our faith, then how can one say that this person was saved. It is much like Adam. He was created to be in a relationship with God. He possessed the ability to remain with God, to grow, to mature with God, but being deceived, he fell.
Being on the other end, Christ redeemed mankind so that God and man could be reunited. God is calling all men, so that man can freely join with God again. We enter by being justified by faith, then we are IN Christ, but it for us to lose that relationship the very same choice Adam had.
This is called the Gentile Baptism, but it is NOT the norm. The Holy Spirit was using this event to teach the disciples/apostles that Gentiles are included in this age. The fact that water baptism was still necessary to validate these Gentiles believing is exactly what has happened ever since in the Church. Baptism is the sine qua non of what constitutes a believer. That is why baptism in the NT era, is the surety of entrance into Christ. The Church always knows who its members are by virtue of baptism. It is why infants have always been baptised, it places them IN Christ.
It is the start in being refined by Father through Son to beleive, and do you think God will just leave those that do beleive in the state they started in? I think not read Hebrews 5:11=6:8 please and see
Yep, justifies and the just shall live by Faith (belief) in the finished work of Son, that cleansed us a nd brought us to Father to give us new life in the Spirit of Father, at the resurrected Christ to have the same ability to walk as he (Christ) walked, is that too simple for yuo
Are you maybe mad at God's Love and Mercy for all?
This Co you say does it not start with being co-crucified with Christ and risen back to live, where we see as Paul said:
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Philippians 3:10 that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
How can one see new life without being willing to be dead to self?
Brother I am in Father's Faith that Father has given me, not any of my own, I have none the same as righteousness, I have none.
Yet though I do and it is not mine, it is Father's given to me thanks to Son for me, and so I am nothing more than a partaker in Father's righteousness, all credit to Father and Son. I am nothing more than God's vessel, to be available for God to use me as God sees fit period. I am dead to self at Christ's death for me, with Christ in agreement for me to be out of the way
Praying you understand this unfathomable Love of God to flesh, and alive to Spirit, which is what Christ came to give us is life in the Spirit of Father
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
You seem to miss the word, live in faith. That is all about work. I am not stating that man is left alone once he enters into Christ. One is refined by the Father, ONLY IF one continues in faith, that being doing the works of faith. Being doers of the word, not just hearers. James 1:25. It is also called the law of love.
God does NOT perfect you just because you entered into a relationship. That relationship requires work, one needs to meet the requirments of that relationship in order to be saved.
That is revealing the fight between flesh yours, mine and all born here of the flesh the Spirit of God and we are to walk by the Spirit of God not flesh
Or do you not know that all sin has been condemned to the flesh at the cross: So there is no flesh that can please God
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
So if one walks by their flesh or anyone Else's can they please God?
Not according to Paul, peter, James, John, or any of the Saints Hebrews 11 reveals it by Faith, one is righteous, by trusting God period over all man in God's love to all shown completed in Son Christ