SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

[eternally-gratefull]

So you both believe that once you are saved, you are always saved? And there is nothing you can do to lose your salvation?

how could I?

I was not saved on my own merit, But on Gods grace and mercy

I was not saved because I earned it, nor will I ever be able to earn it.

I was given the promise of eternal life. Not conditional life

I am sealed by the HS who is my guarantee. I can not break the seal

Even if I am faithless, God promises to be faithfull, he can not deny himself. (his promise)

If I can lose it, I have to earn it. Thus it is not a gift.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I do think, but you do not get the concept. The scripture say they were saved, but then turned away from Christ.
For instance: A person can accept Christ and repent of their sins, but later in life for some reason stop believing in Christ. They then fall away and lose that salvation cause they start denying Jesus.

Plus like I said you have to think spiritually about what the scripture says about a willful sinner. A willful sinner is one who is not sorry, does not feel the conviction, and in turn does not repent cause they feel they are not doing anything wrong. There has been cases and still are cases of people who gave their life to Christ, but then turned away.

Jesus does not pick or chose who gets the gift, He offered it to all. We then chose to accept it or not, and that acceptance can change at any time and has changed in peoples life over the years. Which is evident in such cases like a preacher who has given his life to God, and then because of tragic death of a loved one ends up turning his back on God and not believing He exists.

I will continue to believe in Jesus Christ as my lord and savior, and through that belief I will always believe in what He said.....you can fall away......the anti-Christ will even fool some of the elect.

lol. And you think they were ever saved?

A person who continues in willful sin has never repented now have they??

Come on now my friend, think.

 

[Timeline]

AMEN and will also add that God does not UPBRAID......he does not dangle (spiritual carrots) in front of us to yank them when we grab hold of the carrots.....or before we grab the carrots....

Or deny that the carrots exist.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree, but we can throw the carrots back, No.

did God know you would throw them bacK?


or did You fool God by taking them acting like you wanted them, when you did not want them to begin with (the reason you threw them back)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Or deny that the carrots exist.

You would be an anticarrot them

1 John 2"
[SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

 

[Timeline]

how could I?

I was not saved on my own merit, But on Gods grace and mercy

I was not saved because I earned it, nor will I ever be able to earn it.

I was given the promise of eternal life. Not conditional life

I am sealed by the HS who is my guarantee. I can not break the seal

Even if I am faithless, God promises to be faithfull, he can not deny himself. (his promise)

If I can lose it, I have to earn it. Thus it is not a gift.

I strongly disagree with this! Jesus gives us a free gift, Yes. But it relies on our acceptance of Him. If not all are saved, how did they find themselves in that position? Either it is dependent on you to some degree or all are saved. I can not go with you any farther down that road. We do not work for our salvation - It is in Jesus. Without Him we are lost! And if we decide that we no longer want Him to represent us on judgment day He will not stand in our place and God will see us as we are.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do think, but you do not get the concept. The scripture say they were saved, but then turned away from Christ.
For instance: A person can accept Christ and repent of their sins, but later in life for some reason stop believing in Christ. They then fall away and lose that salvation cause they start denying Jesus.

1 John 2 says they were never of us, for if they were of us, they never would have left.

Plus like I said you have to think spiritually about what the scripture says about a willful sinner. A willful sinner is one who is not sorry, does not feel the conviction, and in turn does not repent cause they feel they are not doing anything wrong. There has been cases and still are cases of people who gave their life to Christ, but then turned away.

I have never met a true child of God (even when they were in sin) not be sorry about sin. (I was one before. I was a priodigal son for 5 years. I commited all kinds of sin, But the second I finished doing my sin, the conviction and sorrow in me was almost to horrible to bear. In fact, that is what brought me back to Christ (also known as Gods chastening)

if one is not chastened they are illegitament and not children.

Yes I know what willful sin is.

Jesus does not pick or chose who gets the gift, He offered it to all. We then chose to accept it or not, and that acceptance can change at any time and has changed in peoples life over the years. Which is evident in such cases like a preacher who has given his life to God, and then because of tragic death of a loved one ends up turning his back on God and not believing He exists.

I will continue to believe in Jesus Christ as my lord and savior, and through that belief I will always believe in what He said.....you can fall away......the anti-Christ will even fool some of the elect.

Then if you believe this, your trying to earn his gift by continuing to believe and not fall away.

And you also claim God will give a gift KNOWING full well that person will one day fall away. Making his gift not free. But one who goes back on his word. Or a not all knowing God

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I strongly disagree with this! Jesus gives us a free gift, Yes. But it relies on our acceptance of Him. If not all are saved, how did they find themselves in that position? Either it is dependent on you to some degree or all are saved. I can not go with you any farther down that road. We do not work for our salvation - It is in Jesus. Without Him we are lost! And if we decide that we no longer want Him to represent us on judgment day He will not stand in our place and God will see us as we are.

again, if you decide this, you are an antichrist.

John 2 says you were never saved. Period.

A dog will always return to his vomit. Plain and simple.

 

[Timeline]

did God know you would throw them bacK?


or did You fool God by taking them acting like you wanted them, when you did not want them to begin with (the reason you threw them back)

You would be an anticarrot them

1 John 2"
[SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

I think I covered this in my comment above - That God did not extend the grace because He knew that we would turn away; Hence you were not saved to begin with. I can agree with that.

Very funny with the anticarrot comment

 

[Timeline]

I think we agree for the most part, I just don't really like your phraseology

 

[kennethcadwell]

That is the issue with people who think worldly and not spiritually. They think we are trying to say you have to earn it, and if you have to earn it then it is not a free gift.

We are not saying you have to earn it, but you do have to believe in Jesus to receive the free gift.

Let me though put it in worldly standards for those who don't understand:
If I give you a car as a free gift.....Do you not still have to put oil, gas, and other regular maintenance into it to keep it running. Look a free gift, but it has conditions and stipulations to keep it running.
Plus to start off with when you get the car do you not have to get it titled and registered as well as insured to drive it legally. More stipulations and conditions to a car that was given to you free.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I just read the 2nd apistle of John and the 2nd chapters in both the gospel of John, and 1st apistle of John..Nowhere did I find it saying that people were not saved in the first place. It did say however in the 2nd apistle of John that we must work diligently so that we do not lose the gift of salvation.

again, if you decide this, you are an antichrist.

John 2 says you were never saved. Period.

A dog will always return to his vomit. Plain and simple.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think we agree for the most part, I just don't really like your phraseology

what do you mean phraseology.. I don;t want to confuse someone..lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I just read the 2nd apistle of John and the 2nd chapters in both the gospel of John, and 1st apistle of John..Nowhere did I find it saying that people were not saved in the first place. It did say however in the 2nd apistle of John that we must work diligently so that we do not lose the gift of salvation.

You must not have read very well..

[SUP]19 [/SUP]They (people who are not against Christ) went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

They were never a part of us, a part of the true church, Saved, Born again Children of God. etc etc.

where in the 2nd epistle does it say we must work diligently or else we will lose the gift?

If you can lose a gift. it was never a gift to begin with..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is the issue with people who think worldly and not spiritually. They think we are trying to say you have to earn it, and if you have to earn it then it is not a free gift.

We are not saying you have to earn it, but you do have to believe in Jesus to receive the free gift.

Let me though put it in worldly standards for those who don't understand:
If I give you a car as a free gift.....Do you not still have to put oil, gas, and other regular maintenance into it to keep it running. Look a free gift, but it has conditions and stipulations to keep it running.
Plus to start off with when you get the car do you not have to get it titled and registered as well as insured to drive it legally. More stipulations and conditions to a car that was given to you free.

The conditions are NOT for you to receive or even keep the car.

the conditions are for you to be able to enjoy the blessings of your gift.

Justification is unconditional based on Gods love and offer alone.

Sanctification or spiritual maturity are conditional with what we do with the salvation God gave us.

The gift is NEVER conditional. and can NEVER be lost.

what we can lose. Is blessings, not only hear on earth, But in heaven.. The rewards are conditional. The gift is not. It is always yoursl

 

[Cassian]

yes it can.

I can grasp it. And never fully take it. and walk away from it.

the corinthian passage also states now is the day of salvation. He is telling some of them, they have not yet been saved yet.

Why do you think so poorly of God that you think he would give someone a gift. KNOWING he would have to take it back. Is God that foolish and unknowing?

Everything we have is a gift from God.
Regarding salvation, the Gift of salvation, which is addressing the work that Christ did for mankind, does not need to be received. It is given to us to use and one part of it is imposed upon. Even those that never believe will have been given this gift. It is stated in Rom 5:14, 18, II Cor 15:22, That Gift is being freed from the bondage to death and sin. Man had nothing to do with this gift.

Because of this gift of salvation of the world, God is also calling all men to repentance to be joined with Him. This is an offer to each individual to be united with God. He does not need to do this, but in not doing it would deny the very purpose of why He created us.
This is the Gift that one needs to receive or accept. We accept it be believing that Christ saved us from death and sin. But in believing, this union has obligations. It is not just a passive state, or benign concept. It requires work because that is why God created us, to be co-workers with Him. He created man to be a prophet, priest and king with God over this created order. That clearly imples a lot of work. Man does not just sit idely by and acquiece to what God might be doing.

God does not revoke any of his gifts. But the gift or offer of union with Him does have conditions attached. If man does not live up to his commitments, then man has broken the covenant. Man is the one responsible for his actions, not God. Whlich is why man will be judged in the last day. God does not give grace to swine to have it trampled underfoot. Which is why doing so is almost a guarantee that you cannot repent from such a direct, knowingly, conscious rejection of Christ once we have entered into a relationship with Him.
Why would God revoke anything, since He created us, then redeemed us, and desires that all men believe and come to the knowledge of Him, (be saved).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Everything we have is a gift from God.
Regarding salvation, the Gift of salvation, which is addressing the work that Christ did for mankind, does not need to be received. It is given to us to use and one part of it is imposed upon. Even those that never believe will have been given this gift. It is stated in Rom 5:14, 18, II Cor 15:22, That Gift is being freed from the bondage to death and sin. Man had nothing to do with this gift.

Because of this gift of salvation of the world, God is also calling all men to repentance to be joined with Him. This is an offer to each individual to be united with God. He does not need to do this, but in not doing it would deny the very purpose of why He created us.
This is the Gift that one needs to receive or accept. We accept it be believing that Christ saved us from death and sin. But in believing, this union has obligations. It is not just a passive state, or benign concept. It requires work because that is why God created us, to be co-workers with Him. He created man to be a prophet, priest and king with God over this created order. That clearly imples a lot of work. Man does not just sit idely by and acquiece to what God might be doing.

God does not revoke any of his gifts. But the gift or offer of union with Him does have conditions attached. If man does not live up to his commitments, then man has broken the covenant. Man is the one responsible for his actions, not God. Whlich is why man will be judged in the last day. God does not give grace to swine to have it trampled underfoot. Which is why doing so is almost a guarantee that you cannot repent from such a direct, knowingly, conscious rejection of Christ once we have entered into a relationship with Him.
Why would God revoke anything, since He created us, then redeemed us, and desires that all men believe and come to the knowledge of Him, (be saved).

Your listening to men. Try to listen to God for once

The gift is free and has no conditions

How well we benefit from that gift here on earth has conditions.

A gift can not be earned, otherwise, it is not a gift.

Paul makes this clear so distincly in many of his writings. Why people can not see this is beyond me

 

[kennethcadwell]

2 John 1:8 talks about not losing what we worked for. Plus in these books it goes to say that if you continue to sin after being saved and do not repent you will lose the gift. You keep thinking worldly or should I say one sided it when it comes to a gift.

You think if it is free then it just sits there and there is nothing from our side we must do to obtain it, or keep it. That is a dangerous teaching........It makes one think he can continue to sin and live however he wants without consequences. Jesus warns of this type of teaching.....look to the example of the free car I gave earlier.

The teaching of once saved always saved is a false doctrine.......as well as teaching that Jesus only choses certain people is also a false doctrine.

It is all over the scriptures that one can fall away after being saved....And Jesus says that the gift is for all, but some will chose not to accept. Not who Jesus choses to accept it.

You must not have read very well..

[SUP]19 [/SUP]They (people who are not against Christ) went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they hd been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

They were never a part of us, a part of the true church, Saved, Born again Children of God. etc etc.

where in the 2nd epistle does it say we must work diligently or else we will lose the gift?

If you can lose a gift. it was never a gift to begin with..

 

[kennethcadwell]

Eternally grateful are you saying those who do not believe in Jesus are saved ????

Your listening to men. Try to listen to God for once

The gift is free and has no conditions

How well we benefit from that gift here on earth has conditions.

A gift can not be earned, otherwise, it is not a gift.

Paul makes this clear so distincly in many of his writings. Why people can not see this is beyond me

 

[faroukfarouk]

Romans 8.38-39 is pretty clear.