SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

[crossnote]

wow, 18 pages of reruns.

 

[RedTent]

To teach salvation based upon your own works is heretical!....

1. NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, BUT ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HAS HE SAVED US
2. IN THE GRACE YOU ARE, HAVING BEEN SAVED OUT OF FAITH, NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST
3. IF YOU BELIEVE WITH YOUR MIND AND CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH....THOU SHALT BE SAVED!
4. Galatians chapters 1, 3--->Faith plus works =false heretical doctrine with no ability to save!
5. Romans 8:1 NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST---LAST PART OF VERSE ADDED AND NOT IN ORIGINAL TEXT
6. DAVID AND ABRAHAM--->DESCRIBE ACURATELY THAT GRACE AND SALVATION AND RIGHTEOUSNESS IMPUTED UNTO MAN WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW<----WORKS
7. NUMEROUS SCRIPTURES THAT POINT ONLY TO FAITH (BELIEF) FOR TOTAL SALVATION

I hope you unbelievers have enough works and that your works exceed the PHARISEES in righteousness and that you are not 1 work short.....NO HOPE OR ASSURANCE IN WORKS!

You are showing that salvation has nothing to do with works, yet every time salvation is mentioned someone brings up works? It is agreed they are absolutely separate, the bible doesn't tie them together, yet most people talking of bible hook them together all the time. They do the same thing with grace, or faith. I have even seen people say that if you learn and know one of the truths of any of these things, you must cancel the learning of another truth, and being works requires something from us, and if it gets cancelled they are off the hook, it is works they decide it cancels. Makes no sense.

 

[Cassian]

This is a clear example of how an apostate couches the truth in error. This is the kind Paul warned Timothy about. The kind Jesus said they won't enter and will not allow others to enter. Very religious but lost.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

then why cannot you and the other supporting this idea prove that it is actually the meaning of scripture. All I read from those who supposedly support this view, is non substantive assertions, a lot of misrepresentation, or more likely, just total ignorance of what scripture means regarding our individual salvation.

 

[Cassian]

Your listening to men. Try to listen to God for once

The gift is free and has no conditions

How well we benefit from that gift here on earth has conditions.

A gift can not be earned, otherwise, it is not a gift.

Paul makes this clear so distincly in many of his writings. Why people can not see this is beyond me

nothing here is even substantive to what I posted. Either you do not understand what I posted, or you have nothing to refute it, so some innocuous assertions is the best you can do. Seems to be a habit of those supporting the OP.

 

[Grandpa]

I tried really hard for a really long time to be perfect before God.

I wasn't able to do it. So I tried a different tactic.

I asked Him to Help me.

And He Helped me more than I could think or ask, saving me to the uttermost.

Very interesting that when I quit my works and asked for His was when I recieved the Most from Him.

Romans 11:6-7
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

If we are saved by Grace then let's be saved by Grace. Let's learn what Grace is and what Grace does. After that you can come in with your pride and your will and tell us about your works. And how many of your good works it takes to earn salvation and obedience...

 

[notuptome]

then why cannot you and the other supporting this idea prove that it is actually the meaning of scripture. All I read from those who supposedly support this view, is non substantive assertions, a lot of misrepresentation, or more likely, just total ignorance of what scripture means regarding our individual salvation.

I wish I had the time to invest in that enterprise. You do not treat the scriptures with the honesty of a born again believer and that bothers me greatly.

I leave you with Jesus own words. I AM the way the truth and the life no man cometh to the Father but by Me.

When Job enquired of God he got a response from God that was quite interesting. Job questioned why God was doing what God was doing and God answered Job with a question. Where were you Job when I God laid the foundations of the world if you can tell.

God Who inhabits eternity saves those who call upon His Son. What can this sin corrupted creation add to what God has done? How can the finite contribute anything of merit to the everlasting Eternal One?

I think your view of God is no better than the Muslim. God is neither capricious nor does God need us to do anything. God loves us and that is sufficient for Him to do as He pleases.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[haz]

I have said and you can check my posts I have no righteousness and I have no works
Jesus does his works
and his works are commandment keeping
and if you dont have his works you are not born again

I guess you are saying here that the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" is lost because he did not have any commandment keeping to get him to paradise.

BTW, how much commandment keeping do you suggest we must have as a minimum to get eternal life?

According to the various legalists I've discussed this with, they claim one of the options below must be attained for us to enter into eternal life:
1: Perfect obedience to the law is required
OR
2: Some ambiguous, unspecified, minimum standard of obedience to the law, which varies depending on the individual.

Which of these do you preach?

 

[Cassian]

I wish I had the time to invest in that enterprise. You do not treat the scriptures with the honesty of a born again believer and that bothers me greatly.

I leave you with Jesus own words. I AM the way the truth and the life no man cometh to the Father but by Me.

When Job enquired of God he got a response from God that was quite interesting. Job questioned why God was doing what God was doing and God answered Job with a question. Where were you Job when I God laid the foundations of the world if you can tell.

God Who inhabits eternity saves those who call upon His Son. What can this sin corrupted creation add to what God has done? How can the finite contribute anything of merit to the everlasting Eternal One?

I think your view of God is no better than the Muslim. God is neither capricious nor does God need us to do anything. God loves us and that is sufficient for Him to do as He pleases.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I respect your opinions but that is all they are. You have missed the whole purpose of why you were even created, and the saved from death. God is not in need of anything, but He created us for a purpose that is based on a mutual convenantal relationship. We are not some object to manipulate, or an object of God's glory in creating us, but we were created to work with Him and in doing His will, we glorify Him.
Your very question of what can we merit otthe everlasting Eternal One misses the whole point of our being created and God giving us His revelation to reveal to us what He expects from us.

 

[notuptome]

I respect your opinions but that is all they are. You have missed the whole purpose of why you were even created, and the saved from death. God is not in need of anything, but He created us for a purpose that is based on a mutual convenantal relationship. We are not some object to manipulate, or an object of God's glory in creating us, but we were created to work with Him and in doing His will, we glorify Him.
Your very question of what can we merit otthe everlasting Eternal One misses the whole point of our being created and God giving us His revelation to reveal to us what He expects from us.

Mutual covenant is baloney. God created man to glorify God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[faroukfarouk]

I do think, but you do not get the concept. The scripture say they were saved, but then turned away from Christ.
For instance: A person can accept Christ and repent of their sins, but later in life for some reason stop believing in Christ. They then fall away and lose that salvation cause they start denying Jesus.

Plus like I said you have to think spiritually about what the scripture says about a willful sinner. A willful sinner is one who is not sorry, does not feel the conviction, and in turn does not repent cause they feel they are not doing anything wrong. There has been cases and still are cases of people who gave their life to Christ, but then turned away.

Jesus does not pick or chose who gets the gift, He offered it to all. We then chose to accept it or not, and that acceptance can change at any time and has changed in peoples life over the years. Which is evident in such cases like a preacher who has given his life to God, and then because of tragic death of a loved one ends up turning his back on God and not believing He exists.

I will continue to believe in Jesus Christ as my lord and savior, and through that belief I will always believe in what He said.....you can fall away......the anti-Christ will even fool some of the elect.

Were those who make a profession but continue in sin really saved in the first place?

I don't think we can say they were.

Romans 8.38-39 gives assurance to those who are truly saved, not to those who continue in sin and were never saved in the first place.

 

[haz]

look up sanctified

it means obedient to every word of God

you will NOT get in no matter what you profess
you have to repent and follow Jesus

I looked it up and "sanctify" means to make holy.
And this is confirmed in Heb 10:10.
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

There we have it. It was Christ's sacrifice that sanctified us, made us holy.

And this is contrary to the legalists doctrine that suggests that Christ's sacrifice was not good enough and that perfect obedience to the law is necessary to finish off what Christ's sacrifice failed to do.

I can see why Heb 10:26-29 speaks in such negative terms about those who after having known what they have in Christ turn back to the law, thus rejecting Christ's sacrifice.
Heb 10:26-29
For if we sin willfully (this is when one turns back to the law, Gal 2:18) after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he ( the legalists) be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

I suspect many legalists (being like Saul, knowing scripture but being a persecutor of the church) never knew the truth of the gospel to begin with. Hence they may still be able to repent and receive Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

2 John 1:8 talks about not losing what we worked for. Plus in these books it goes to say that if you continue to sin after being saved and do not repent you will lose the gift. You keep thinking worldly or should I say one sided it when it comes to a gift.

2 john 1: 8 is talking about a reward.

Salvation is not a reward, it is a gift. So to take 2 john 1: 8 as talking about losing salvation would be false.

The next few verses are talking about decievers, Men who never were saved.

so not sure what your talking about

You think if it is free then it just sits there and there is nothing from our side we must do to obtain it, or keep it. That is a dangerous teaching........

No.

It is a dangerous teaching to make something God says is free, and say it must be earned.

Your faith is in your self and your ability to do those things to earn it, And not the work of Christ. It was not free. is was paid in full by CHrist. to say otherwise is to call God a liar.

It makes one think he can continue to sin and live however he wants without consequences.

NO ONE who truly repents would ever think this. Not sure why you think they would

Anyone who does, has never been saved, they have turned the grace of God to licentious, whose end has been foreordained (see Jude)

Jesus warns of this type of teaching.....look to the example of the free car I gave earlier.

I did. The care was free. what one did with the car depends on works.

Your example did not prove your point, your trying to mix justification with sanctification. they are two different things.

The teaching of once saved always saved is a false doctrine.......

The God is a liar. plain and simple.

as well as teaching that Jesus only choses certain people is also a false doctrine.

He chose based on the gospel. Whoever believes in him will be saved, And he will NOT put to shame.

It is all over the scriptures that one can fall away after being saved....And Jesus says that the gift is for all, but some will chose not to accept. Not who Jesus choses to accept it.

The gift is free.

Just because someone may reject his gift, does nto mean one will lose it.

Again, You make God give something KNOWING he will have to take it back. That is a disgrace to say this, And an outright insult to God

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternally grateful are you saying those who do not believe in Jesus are saved ????

no. why would I say this?

Belief is not even enough. True faith is required.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

nothing here is even substantive to what I posted. Either you do not understand what I posted, or you have nothing to refute it, so some innocuous assertions is the best you can do. Seems to be a habit of those supporting the OP.

lol..

You do this all the time.

Get real

 

[kennethcadwell]

I was just asking because I noticed you saying before that if it has conditions it is not a free gift.

Well believing in Jesus is a condition and repentance is another. If you do not believe, you are not saved....that is a major condition on our part we must obey to be saved.

no. why would I say this?

Belief is not even enough. True faith is required.

 

[RedTent]

I am reading through all these bible truths that is supposed to always to point to works as absolutely nothing. They give forgiveness as a free gift as a reason. Does the free gift scriptures relate to any don't do any work scripture? There are no limits to grace, and how does that relate to scriptures about walking in the way of Christ? One says that we are told to be perfect even though we can't be, it is a logical reason for the no work rule they give. And there is actually arguments about it.

What about just accepting scripture? Scripture about the place of work in our Christian walk is scripture, too. But I am ignored, the idea!! Talking of what scripture says!!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I was just asking because I noticed you saying before that if it has conditions it is not a free gift.

Well believing in Jesus is a condition and repentance is another. If you do not believe, you are not saved....that is a major condition on our part we must obey to be saved.

Jesus answers this

It is THE WORK OF GOD that we believe in the one he sent. John 6

Faith is someone to do the work for you is not a work. God gets all the credit Because he did all the work

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am reading through all these bible truths that is supposed to always to point to works as absolutely nothing. They give forgiveness as a free gift as a reason. Does the free gift scriptures relate to any don't do any work scripture? There are no limits to grace, and how does that relate to scriptures about walking in the way of Christ? One says that we are told to be perfect even though we can't be, it is a logical reason for the no work rule they give. And there is actually arguments about it.

What about just accepting scripture? Scripture about the place of work in our Christian walk is scripture, too. But I am ignored, the idea!! Talking of what scripture says!!!!

we would love to talk about what a person does after they are saved, but that would be another thread.

This is about how one is saved.

 

[Cassian]

Mutual covenant is baloney. God created man to glorify God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Another unfounded assertion. But you are correct inthat man was created to glorify God. That means a lot of work. We do not passively exist, or we are not benign creatures.

 

[Cassian]

we would love to talk about what a person does after they are saved, but that would be another thread.

This is about how one is saved.

What do you plan to do after you are saved? Do you know what you will be doing in heaven?