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SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I have been doing it for many years now.
I have learned why God says no
I have learned more about his love and who he is.
I have seen him work in peoples lives and my own life in a way I could never imagine
I have seen Gods love and forgiveness.
I understand why I suffer for him, and have seen the outcomes, and the joy which James says we can have in his first chapter.
I have grown to trust him in many areas of my life. and understand how I do not have to take care of myself. He takes care of me.
I have seen how sin almost destroyed me, How particular sins are so damaging to not only myself but others..
I have seen answered prayer, I have witnessed things in response to prayer that can not be explained in the physical world. but can only be seen as miracles.
I have seen heartache and despair when I try to take over my own life and do not allow God to control my life.
I have seen people you would think would never change, not only change but become powerful witnesses for God.
I have seen Gods word become living and active, and not just a religious book of ideas and rules and regulations
I have seen what paul meant when he considers sufferings in this life as a momentary light affliction.
I have been seriously attacked by satan by things which are not natural. And seen God overcome those things.
I can go on and on and on. What else would you like to know?
I have far to many things to concentrate on here than to worry about what will happen in heaven. I am in a spiritual war. and there are people who still need rescued.. Why would I worry about heaven now?? God will show me those things when I get there, And I know whatever it is. I will not be disappointed.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
yes it does.
It means alot of work by God.
I pray your not trying to take credit for it, You can do NOTHING for god without his power..
My comment is based on your erroneous assertion. The ONLY saved believer is one who has entered heaven, He has inherited the promise due to his faithfulness. This discussion is about HOW one is saved. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT WE DO AFTER WE ARE SAVED. After means we are in heaven.
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you constantly create these contradictions. First you say it means a lot of work for God, then you turn right around and say it is of man, though not without God's power. This is what those of us speaking against this erroneous view you are esposing are saying. It is also summed up in I Pet 1:3-5. It is all about our faith working with God, to work out our salvation, It is a mutual, synergistic convenatal relationship.
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kennethcadwell
Guest
God does get all the credit. We still have the condition placed on us to either believe or not believe in Jesus Christ. It is plain and simple you believe you are saved....you don't believe you are not. If this condition does not apply then non-believers are saved as well. You can not work around that.
Either there are conditions or everybody is saved, and I am sorry but to reiterate scripture does not say Jesus choses a few. It says salvation is for all, but not all will chose.
" I set before you life and death, I hope you chose life. "
Either there are conditions or everybody is saved, and I am sorry but to reiterate scripture does not say Jesus choses a few. It says salvation is for all, but not all will chose.
" I set before you life and death, I hope you chose life. "
No doubt and exactly what sins can cause you to loose it and can you loose salvation and be born again numerous times....how many times..1 50, 500? The theology does not bear out that you can lose it, regain it, lose it, regain it etc...foolishness!
I guess the best one can say is that you do not understand what scripture teaches, so then at best misrepresent what it does actually say, so that your personal interpretation must take precedence.
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kennethcadwell
Guest
That is not foolishness, even Jesus said to forgive constantly, by his point He was not actually putting a number to it like some think. He was trying to show to always forgive, and He will never take the gift away from you. It will always be there for you if you fall away and then when you repent and come back to Him.
Like I said before if you chose to stop believing in Jesus, or it you sin with out remorse, conviction, and feeling of not needing to repent.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
You will have to forgive me, I based my answer on biblical truth, Not your churches perversion of truth.
I am saved now. Paul said it over and over, Jesus said it over and over, Your church is off base. And this proves yet once again, your trying to earn salvation.
If i was not saved, If I did not have the HS as my guarantee, If I was not adopted as Gods child who he said he would never cast out. Non of the things I posted would be possible.
No, I inherited Gods promise based on HIS faithfulness. I can never be good enough, to earn any inheritance.
Again, Paul rejects your notion.
eph 1: [SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, [SUP]4 [/SUP]just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, [SUP]5 [/SUP]having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace [SUP]8 [/SUP]which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,
My inheritance is guaranteed by the HS given to me. and can not be taken away
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Nothing here is future tense, or something which happens after we get to heaven, Paul said we have these things RIGHT HERE ad RIGHT NOW.
Only according to your false theology.
Not according to God.
Eternal salvation by Jesus is not even close to being compared to a car that need oil and gas to keep running.....
Salvation is a completed action with present continuing results.....have you ever studied an aorist tense verb?...like the one found in John 3:16
a present continuing result from a past completed action.....
was saved, am saved and continuing to be saved into the future as it is a once for all act of faith....
Even if after we have been saved and begin to deny him the bible clearly teaches that HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF!
Faith is not human merit.
It is all of grace that the sinner even believes at all.
Ephesians 2.8-9
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
How is this a contradiction. can I boast of doing something which was done by God through me?? or can I ONLY give credit to God.
No.
Your saying God saves you by your works.. or unsaved you by your lack of works. Yours is based on your power. you get the credit, not God.
Lemme see.....What was the intent of this?
Could this be possibly translated,
"Alright, all of you unbelievers, hypocrites, & scripture twisters, c'mon in here & argue with me so thats I can tell everybody how wicked & messed up you are. While I'm at it, I'm gonna get 'likes' from everybody that thinks like I do, & get them to do the same thing so that we can 'like' each other, build our stats & popularity, & get so entrenched in this site that they might think twice about doing anything with me."
That's just a guess, of course.
What I have to say 'bout it is this: taking the Bible & our witness & using it as a ball bat on our opponents is no better than pretzel-twisting the truth until it's no longer recognizable. Either way, you make the Word of God of none effect. Who wants the truth when you beat them with it? Shoving it down their throat? Making it look "acceptable" to slam & bash with the scriptures? Condemning everybody that doesn't agree?
Notice the heart of God from the Old Testament:
Isaiah 1:16-20 (KJV) [SUP]16 [/SUP]Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; [SUP]17 [/SUP]Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. [SUP]19 [/SUP]If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: [SUP]20 [/SUP]But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Those that "agree" with the attitude of arguing & condemnation of this thread are building on the foundation of the attitude & helping to make it 'acceptable'.
I can't see Jesus talking like that.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
it is not my faith it is Gods.
it is only my faith if I have a hand in doing what saves me.. Then and only then is it of me.
can a person who is completely at the mercy of a person sent to rescue him boast of saving himself when he has no ability to do so. he is completely helpless?
No, he must trust the one sent to save him, or die..
Yep he saves a few
Funny how every major religion on earth teaches that God only saves those who work for it. And will reject those who do not work for it, or take back his salvation for those who do not continue to earnit.
Your not alone in this, You may have the word christ in your belief, but your no different than every major religion out there.
that is why so few will be saved, it take complete humility to admit your hopless and stand still and allow someone complete control of your life/death situation. in fact, for most people it is an impossible task, they will still try to save themselves. and end up dieing in the process.
Amen to this truth........I agree....it is of grace, faith, mercy and Jesus is the one who did the work, completed the work and I will stand in his faith as opposed to fleshly works which can never save anyone.....NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS....
no doubt as there is an intellectual belief and a true spiritual life changing belief....most of the world knows that there was a man named Jesus, but few acknowledge Jesus by biblical faith as most so called religions preach some sort of works or water for salvation of the which both are heretical....
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kennethcadwell
Guest
Jesus does not deny Himself....you do as a human if you start denying Him
Once again if you believe one can not lose salvation then you write off part of what Jesus said: Jesus said you can fall away, and He also said the anti-Christ will fool some of the elect. Plus there are multiple other scriptures that talk about ones who have accepted Jesus Christ and then fell away.
The other thing with the car I was making a notion in worldly standards for those who are not as studied in the scriptures to look at them spiritually. There was a mention of there is no conditions to salvation or it would not make it a free gift.
Its a free gift cause Jesus keeps it there always......the conditions then fall on us to believe in Him, repent, and so forth.
Believing in Jesus means to also believe in all He said not some of what He said.
Once again if you believe one can not lose salvation then you write off part of what Jesus said: Jesus said you can fall away, and He also said the anti-Christ will fool some of the elect. Plus there are multiple other scriptures that talk about ones who have accepted Jesus Christ and then fell away.
The other thing with the car I was making a notion in worldly standards for those who are not as studied in the scriptures to look at them spiritually. There was a mention of there is no conditions to salvation or it would not make it a free gift.
Its a free gift cause Jesus keeps it there always......the conditions then fall on us to believe in Him, repent, and so forth.
Believing in Jesus means to also believe in all He said not some of what He said.