Salvation Not Possible Without Works

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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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I don't think you understand what I wrote. It matters not what you believe, how you believe, or any of your experiences as a believer. Same for me. Our experiences do not dictate what a doctrine means. We live what we believe, but the question is do we believe the correct doctrine.
Nope not yours as is so well shown to me in all your posts now, I believe God that God ahs got me safe and secure in God' arms, taken by the and and led all over this land, by trust in the living God rfeveale to me by Jesus the Son free:
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Praying Christ will do this very same for you and see all the way Home
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Who is the righteous one Chirst or and you? or Just Christ?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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well yes i know that now. you have everything from hearing to breathing as works. not works of righteousness though. unless you challenge paul.

so SeaBass is saved by his works. HE HEARD! thats impressive. even more impressive is that while dead in trespasses and sins he cooperated with Christ in his salvation by doing good works. what is this religion called. Romanish maybe.

VCO posted "NO David, genuine FAITH produces good works, psuedo Faith does not produce good works, is all they are saying."

Do you agree with this statment above made by VCO?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,464
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No, it is about what He has revealed to us and what He expects of us.
Father through Son is trying real hard to reveal the whole truth to you and you just won't deny your flesh, reckon it dead to sin by the death of Christ or do you agree that through the death to self with Christ at the death of Christ is the way,the truth, and the new life found in the resurrected Christ?
Petting no confidence in your flesh as Paul reveals so well in Phil 3:1-11
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
And James said by works a man is justified.

Since Paul and James do not contradict, it becomes apparent they are not talking about the same type of works. In the context of Rom 4 Paul is talking about works of merit which does not save and in the context of James 2, James is talking about an obedient faith to God which does save.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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You still have not presented anything that shows that "faith only" is actually a scriptural teaching. You make assertions, but have no text that removes the works of faith, the law of love, or obedience to Christ. To be of faith, means to be with love, and obedience. It is how one increases their faith, God imparts more righteousness to us when we do righteous things, I John 3:7.
What you have done most consistantly is mischaracterize what scripture actually teaches and what those that are speaking against this false notion of "faith only" are stating.
The very words, not be be moved from the Gospel, is diametrically opposing your view.
Moving from the Gospel is moving outside of Christ. Can one be saved outside of Christ?
We increase our faith through the word of God. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God. Rom 10:17

You continue to impress figurative language onto literal teachings. Within the context of the passage Paul is not teaching works to retain salvation.

1 John 3:7 you impress that the doing is what creates the result when it is being made the righteousness of God that does the righteousness. We do not make ourselves righteous but Gods grace imputes to us the righteousness of Christ. 2 Cor 5:21

You continue to accuse those who teach sound doctrine as mischaracterizing you but it is you that sets scripture at odds with scripture by making salvation a mutual effort between man and God. God has done it all. there is nothing that can be added to what God has done.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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mankind lays the cross and the blood aside,,,they look at it and contemplate it,,,,,they say in their minds,"what else shall i do to be saved",,,then they recon thru the scriptures and find something else to do,,,,,,because they don't believe jesus finished it at the cross,,,the Crucifixion of Christ and "just one of your added works is death",,,,,,yet Calvary alone is eternial life,,,,,,,,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
So you you are saying wroks are necessary to be saved? Can a Christian not do good works and still be saved?
that would be a faulty question.

the question should be can a person be a Christian and NOT DO work..

Then one must ask.

How can one who repented (truly) not do work
How can a person who is born of God not do work
How can a person who is given the spirit not do work
How can a person who is chastened by God not do work.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,464
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just to be clear because you have a tendency to conflate things. In Col 1:20 Christ by His death reconciled all things.

Now, Paul begins in vs 21 to explain what that means for believers. The meaning of baptism as described in Rom 6:3-4 is that we participate with Christ in His death and resurrection. This is how a believer is reconciled to God, and is made holy and blameless. This is also stated in Eph 1:4 and conformed to His Image in Rom 8:29.
This is our personal salvation. This is what we must accomplish working with the Spirit, and we will be in the last day presented holy, blameless, and conformed to His Image (and here is the important condition) vs 23 IF indeed you CONTINUE IN THE FAITH.
In other words it speaks directly against the notion of "faith only".
Really, I think you read it wrong yet what you said is fact as in being Holy perfected to Father by Christ, this id for here and now to die daily to self daily to be alive in Spirit and truth Daily, made daily perfect by God and be as Paul:
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Do you not see this, from God view we are made holy, perfect and unbalamed, for ever thanks to Son so we can b y Faith (not works) in this finished work walk as Christ walked in complete dependence on Father's lead

Sorry you apparently do not see your self works in the way your own flesh as from my view has deceived you, praying god shows you if God decides for God knows your motive here and will reveal rthis or won't depending on your motive, thanking God for his
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
How does one lose salvation ( fall away ), and then repent and come back to our Lord if there is not mutual effort ?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
How does one lose salvation ( fall away ), and then repent and come back to our Lord if there is not mutual effort ?

Easy,

One can;t fall away.

To say so says God Goes back on his promise. God can not deny himself.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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I think Cassian is proof of this. He was drawn by his church. And thus is blinded to the spirit.
Perhaps and if he chooses to step out into eternity expecting God to recognize his efforts well that is between him and God. My concern is that he does not lead others into the same error. Just like Jesus said of the Pharisees in Mat 23:13-29.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Perhaps and if he chooses to step out into eternity expecting God to recognize his efforts well that is between him and God. My concern is that he does not lead others into the same error. Just like Jesus said of the Pharisees in Mat 23:13-29.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
that goes for both of us.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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i feel that it must be said, yet again, that faith is always expressed through works, but the works are not what saves.
James "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only"

Works do save.

LT said:
If a man is starving on the verge of death, and he is given a plate of food, the man has FAITH that the food can save him from starvation. Will the man continue repeating "I know this food can save me. I trust this food can save me," or does he immediately begin eating?

If we have faith, then we are saved. If we have faith, then we will trust that God is real and active in the world, and that His Word tells us what we should be doing.
If we have faith, then we will simply do what God asks of us, because we have faith that His ways are the right ways, and that our ways are not.


Works always follow faith, but works are a love offering, and the faith in Christ is the guilt offering.

If the man had faith only he would have died for faith only, being void of works, does not allow for him to do the work of eating. So for the man to be saved and live his faith MUST include the work of eating for without this work he dies. So at some point for theman to be saved and live he must do a work.

Also, if doing the work of eating saves the man from starving to death, did he merit his own salvation by doing that work of eating?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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How does one lose salvation ( fall away ), and then repent and come back to our Lord if there is not mutual effort ?
Hebrews teaches that if falling away were possible then restoration would not be possible. Heb 6:1-6

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
And James said by works a man is justified.

Since Paul and James do not contradict, it becomes apparent they are not talking about the same type of works. In the context of Rom 4 Paul is talking about works of merit which does not save and in the context of James 2, James is talking about an obedient faith to God which does save.
And you would be wrong.

Paul is talking abour someone who actually had faith.

James is speaking of people who never had faith.

Thus they do not contradict. Because it is not the works which are the issue,it is the faith (or lack of)


A work of merit is a work done to merit or earn something. If your trying to earn salvation by your work. then it is a work of merit.

Wake up before it is too late.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Funny cause Jesus, Paul, and James say they can.

No they do not.

Eternal life is eternal. Not conditional.

You call something all of them call eternal not eternal at all.

When are you going to stop trusting in self and start trusting in God?
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Hebrews 10 teaches of those who are sanctified and saved but were falling away, and if they continue in willful sin instead of repent for what they are doing. Then they will be in front of the judgment seat at the second death, and face a fiery indignation.

Hebrews teaches that if falling away were possible then restoration would not be possible. Heb 6:1-6

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 12, 2014
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John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."
Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction."
Rom. 3:24, "being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;"
Rom. 3:26, "for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. [SUP]29[/SUP]Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, [SUP]30[/SUP]since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
Rom. 4:3, "For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
Rom. 4:11, "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,"
Rom. 4:16, "Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all."
Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
Rom. 5:9, "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."
Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."
Rom. 9:33, "just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
Rom. 10:9-10, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; [SUP]10[/SUP]for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
Gal. 2:21, “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
Gal.3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? [SUP]6[/SUP]Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations shall be blessed in you."
Gal. 3:14, "in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
Gal. 3:22, "But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."
Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
Eph. 1:13, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."
Eph. 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God."
Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."
1 Tim. 1:16, "And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life."


this is quite a large list, but not even a complete one.
Any one of those verses explains salvation through faith alone perfectly.

pick any one, and study it for yourself in context, and may the Holy Spirit guide you in your reading.
What sticks out is that not a single one of those verses say "belief only" saves. People must add the word 'alone' to the verse to get belief alone.. And when people starting adding to or taking from or re-arranging God's word, they no longer have God's word.
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
1,960
7
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Nope not yours as is so well shown to me in all your posts now, I believe God that God ahs got me safe and secure in God' arms, taken by the and and led all over this land, by trust in the living God rfeveale to me by Jesus the Son free:
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Praying Christ will do this very same for you and see all the way Home
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Who is the righteous one Chirst or and you? or Just Christ?
I'm not sure how this might help you but Christ freed every human being. He freed all men from the bondage to death and sin. This is why we can even have a relationship with Him. Man is free to choose to reject or accept Him.