J
Who said God desired people to go to hell? I did not say that at all. If the Christian isn't suppose to be happy about that, why would God be happy with that?
I'm just reading the scriptures as its meant to be read. I am not trying to add any doctrine, nor am I supporting a man made doctrine. I can point out scripture for all the points, but it's up to you whether you believe it or not.
You are using two verses, one of which is from Timothy which doesn't surprise me because there in the second book a verse concerning election too!
2 Timothy 2:10 NAS
"For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory."
You can read this in context, so from what I'm hearing is that Paul was persecuted for the elect, so that they may obtain salvation in Christ Jesus and with eternal glory....
........how do you reconcile this verse?
I'm just reading the scriptures as its meant to be read. I am not trying to add any doctrine, nor am I supporting a man made doctrine. I can point out scripture for all the points, but it's up to you whether you believe it or not.
You are using two verses, one of which is from Timothy which doesn't surprise me because there in the second book a verse concerning election too!
2 Timothy 2:10 NAS
"For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory."
You can read this in context, so from what I'm hearing is that Paul was persecuted for the elect, so that they may obtain salvation in Christ Jesus and with eternal glory....
........how do you reconcile this verse?
Romans does the same thing as Timothy. After Paul talks about election, he then goes on to talk about choices that affect our salvation.
Romans 8:13-14 " For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God."
This implies choice again.
in regards to Timothy, the very next couple of verses after 2:10 imply choice again.
11 This is a faithful saying:
For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
I have always seen the "elect" as the people of God who respond to Him through faith. Not as a predetermined group of people that God forced to choose Him.
Blessings! I think I need to goto bed soon. Good talking with you!