Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[VCO]

Which denies instant salvation, faith only, upon a first initial faith.

'here is the condition in your citations....

"So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in Him,"

The problem with your view and finite savlation upon first faith, is that we do not have salvation, because we can deny our faith, we can lose faith and NOT CONTINUE in faith. NO faith, NO salvation. Not hard to understand.
Every text you have cited has conditions attached. NONE say faith only, or even only simple faith, and none that says we have salvation finitely.

Last time Cassian:

Here is a very simple paraphrase to help you understand what I teach:

"So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, which equals having been SAVED,
therefore since you are SAVED, act like it and continue to live in Him,"

 

[danalee]

GOD told us how and when we can know we are SAVED:

1 John 2:3 (ASV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And hereby we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

First of all that "know HIM" is talking about and inner personal Love relationship whereby we willingly receive HIM as LORD, which means MASTER; and to "know HIM" like that evidence of having been SAVED. The verb "keep" there is in the GREEK perfect tense, not implying perfection, but rather a lifestyle of striving to keep. English only has three primary verb tenses (past, present, and future), whereas Greek has a fourth primary verb tense, called the Perfect tense. Despite it's name it does not imply perfection, instead it implies a continuous or ongoing action of doing that verb. It helps me to keep that straight in my head by calling it the Continuous Action Tense; and JOHN loved to use those Continuous Action Tense verbs especially in 1 John. They describe what the ongoing Christian lifestyle should be like.

How do we show Biblically that "to KNOW HIM" is equal to Salvation?

Matthew 7:21-23 (ASV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 25:8-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But the foolish ones said to the sensible ones, ‘Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
[SUP]9 [/SUP] “The sensible ones answered, ‘No, there won’t be enough for us and for you. Go instead to those who sell, and buy oil for yourselves.’
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “When they had gone to buy some, the groom arrived. Then those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] “Later the rest of the virgins also came and said, ‘Master, master, open up for us!’
[SUP]12 [/SUP] “But he replied, ‘I assure you: I do not know you!’

HENCE that inner personal LOVE relationship with JESUS as our LORD and Master is evidence we HAVE BEEN SAVED.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

Here is another example from 1 John with a Greek Perfect Tense verb, not found in English:

1 John 1:9 (ASV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That word confess also in in the Perfect Tense, implying that the Christian lifestyle will be characterized by an ongoing willingness to confess each new sin as we discover them.

I hope and pray that is helpful.

Well for me I am so acutely aware of my sins so I do confess them. When I became a Christian I did fall into poverty, strangely, as a consequence of giving up a lifestyle and following Christ. I do have the privilege of depending on God to provide for me daily, and this is very challenging. But it does build faith. This has happened so many times that what I need is immediately provided for. And Posthuman, I agree with you. I wish there was a thread where I could bear witness to the things that God does for me, so I can praise him - yet I know he wants this to be done in private also.

Like today my landlord told me to remove the couches I put out on the lawn so the city doesn't get involved. I wanted someone to take them. I saw her text and thought, oh boy, how can I move them now myself (since I had help putting them there). I prayed. It was not an hour and a knock at the door (I was worried it was the landlords coming to yell at me). But it was a nice couple who asked if they could have the couches. Praise God. Wow.

 

[homwardbound]

It is hard to answer all these strawmen. Your statements are your understanding of scripture which is what I and others are stating is incorrect.
We are not saved ONLY by simple faith. We are being saved through faith. The faith must remain, constant, continuous. And while the faith is in effect, we are working out our salvation with the Holy Spirit. The HOLY SPIRIT does NOT do any of the work. He helps us to do the work. But the work is to live toward perfection in devoping the virtues of humility, liberality, chastity, mildness, temperance, happiness, diligence. These are done to offer help against the opposite of vices, Pride, Greed, Lust, anger, Gluttony, envy, and sloth. The foundation is love. Love is the greatest and by obedience to God we show our love of Him

Your statement shows that you do not have faith if you say that we don't need to do works after faith. It is the works that manifests your faith. YOu cannot say you have faith, then not obey. It is the same thing as saying I love my neigbor then I go and kill him.

Yes for us all to come to:
Ephesians 4:13 till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

All I am doing is revealing to you that it is all God and none of me or anyone else, that is when if God permits one sees one will be free for the truth sets one free does it not? And you all are working hard at it to be free, I see that, and am elated over it, next step as God does this, if you agree that you are still in bondage to sin, then if anyone is in bondage they are not free are they? I remember those days trying so hard and could never accomplish, and still if "I" tried couldn't. So instead I raised my white flag and gave up my flesh efforts to be a goody two shoes and oh look at me attitude I had. Was taken in by what this world sees as the enemy, even though they act as if they belief, they do not it is a good act though for this world is enmity with God and God is enmity with this world. This world masquerades as being Good and it is not per God.
Anyway I have been taken in and cared for beyond belief, no longer a citizen of this world, nope a Citizen of Heaven in Spirit and truth you all, please I am an ambassador pleading with you all to come here and live in Heaven in Spirit and truth, where we are safe and secure with Father thanks to Son

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[homwardbound]

I'm not sure just why I have a very difficult time understanding just what you are trying to convey. Maybe English might not be your native language and your presentation does not adaquately say what you may want to say.

Also, you are going all over the place with analogies that are different than scripture gives them.

You still have a lot of strawmen you have created as well.
There is nothing new I can add that I have not already explained clearly ad nauseam and yet it has not been refuted. I don't think what you are saying changes that.

I don't know maybe you might need to be born of the Spirit of God via the resurrected Christ for if you can't understand physical analogies, how will you ever understand Spiritual realities; God does just love you, so much that while we all were and are failures he went to the cross for you, me and all the world to cleanse you and all the world by his death and present you before Father as perfect, so once you beleive this you might be able to see the gift of Father in the resurrected Christ, after if you decide to be dead in the flesh with Christ at the death of Christ
Phil 3:1-11 reveal this, praying Father opens this up to you to walk in Faith that produces God's work of love to all, not just those that agree with me or you or anyone else Love from Father to all.
And it is the kindness of God that teaches one to turn around in belief to Father and receive from Father and thus walk as Christ walked, all by Faithin The finished work, were we are forgiven from Father by Son.

 

[homwardbound]

Do you want to learn what the narrow gate is?

John 1:12-13 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Yet to all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, he gave the right to become children of God--
[SUP]13 [/SUP] children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

Receiving HIM is the NARROW GATE, but receive HIM AS WHAT?

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in Him,

Receiving HIM as LORD, means to willingly out of love SUBMIT TO HIM AS MASTER.

Many want a Savior but very few want a MASTER, because they want to remain "lord" of their own lives.

And if I may add that is bottom line what this scripture Shows below what the fight in truth here is:
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Thanks Brother

 

[homwardbound]

Which denies instant salvation, faith only, upon a first initial faith.

'here is the condition in your citations....
The problem with your view and finite savlation upon first faith, is that we do not have salvation, because we can deny our faith, we can lose faith and NOT CONTINUE in faith. NO faith, NO salvation. Not hard to understand.
Every text you have cited has conditions attached. NONE say faith only, or even only simple faith, and none that says we have salvation finitely.

I am deeply sorry for you that you really think God is not Faithful and that you can lose your Faith when it is God that carries on the good work God started in you if you ever really believed to begin with, God knows and will carry on the work God started if it is started, Praying so.

Love you deeper than you seem to know, Brother, thank you that you do want to do right by Father that is a start unto the whole truth to get you set free
Maybe look up this, it might help, I do not know, but God does, not trying to force anything on you, just putting out what over the years Father has taught me and teaching as I grow in Father amazing grace to all
F. J. Huegel:Bone of His Bone.Table of Contents
Your choice to investigate and decide what is truth or not. if no investigate then if in bondage still one might not ever get out of bondage as Saul who became Paul and as the Bereans sought out truth as well
Thanks

 

[homwardbound]

Live out your faith, we are doers of Gods word. If you're not saved so what, continue to work it out because you will find something greater!!! You shall be found!!!

Thank you I love this encouragement to us all, for those that do want to know; God is faithful to reveal truth as what truth is in full view over time if one does not give up

 

[homwardbound]

Exodus 20:9-10 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God.
This was how the Israelites worked hard to enter rest.
Now IF the 24/7 rest is in Christ, and that salvation is free and requires no work whatsoever, what is the work to work hard to enter rest?
The way I see is, the work is the journey in the desert AFTER the salvation out of the spiritual Egypt.

Thanks Cubbena, appreciate you as we all here are growing in this amazing Salvation from Father through Son

Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

If you do believe God is Faithful to grow us into God's rest and we thus rest whether we work or not
Have you ever whistled while you work? It is amazing to be able to through belief

 

[homwardbound]

what you deny is "If" in the "If we endure"

If from the Greek is not always IF, in many translations from Greek the translation actually means "Since" not if
Thank you as we all here grow in God does just love us all

 

[posthuman]

acceptable works not possible without salvation!

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all That word, I say, ye know
(Acts 10:35-37)

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe
(Romans 3:21-22)

thank God for the way He has made for us!

 

[Jabberjaw]

Mark 16:16

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

First is what you state here water or Spirit Baptism. Who does the Baptism Father through Son or mankind?

For John said he came to baptize with water the Messiah and knew not who he was and when he saw the dove descend on him and hear the voice from God saying this is my Son, whom I (Father) am well pleased, then is when John was to announce the Messiah is here, and he did that stated truth as the witness to the truth.
He also said to Christ he needed Baptized of Christ ans Christ said he must do all that is right, so fro now water Baptize him. By this Christ was fulfilling the Levitical law as the priests before ever going into the holy of holies had to bve water washed, baptized mind you.
After Christ's water Baptism and John testfying that their Messiah has arrived, his Job he came here for was over
John 3:30
He must increase, but I must decrease.
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

So after Pentecost how are we baptized for life eternal? By water for repentance; or by the Spirit of Father unto life thanks to Christ's perfection not ours?




a free gift, so what Baptism are you stating here, water or Spirit? One is a work of us to be saved, which n o flesh of man can please God outside of Christ's. and the other is a free gift to us from Father in the resurrected Christ in Spirit and truth

Ephesians 2:9 not of works, lest any man should boast.

There is only one saving baptism (you have been shown this how many times now?) Eph 4:5, the disciples were commissioned to go throughout the nations "baptizing", they were not told to go throughout the nations while Jesus baptized :

Matthew 28:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

John the baptizer said Jesus was the only one who could baptize with the Holy Spirit and Fire, that leaves water as the one saving baptism that the disciples that were commissioned could go out and do...

You really do make it a lot harder than it should be.

 

[homwardbound]

So 1 John 1:7 was written by the Holy Spirit to remind the Holy Spirit to make sure we walk in the light? so if anyone does not walk in the light (and since few there be that find it Mat. 7:14) then God and his Spirit are culpable for the lost.

God's Mercy is to save us not condemn anyone, it is if we have received Mercy that saves us and if we have received Mercy what do we give back? a works program or Mercy understanding how God so loved the world? to all God has done this either respond with Mercy to all others the same as what is received from Father the gift of life or keep trying to be a creator and do good works, truly if i do my good works before others, and make note MY, that is all the reward I will ever get, my motive is not right with God my selfishness is thus still the way,. you think?

 

[Jabberjaw]

God's Mercy is to save us not condemn anyone, it is if we have received Mercy that saves us and if we have received Mercy what do we give back? a works program or Mercy understanding how God so loved the world? to all God has done this either respond with Mercy to all others the same as what is received from Father the gift of life or keep trying to be a creator and do good works, truly if i do my good works before others, and make note MY, that is all the reward I will ever get, my motive is not right with God my selfishness is thus still the way,. you think?

According to you, everyone is saved... we should just throw our bibles away, God did everything for us, sent His Son so we could do nothing but sit and wait for heaven, and if anyone is lost, it is Gods fault, because he didn't do the work for them.

 

[homwardbound]

Just sit on it, because you were saved 20 years ago, and that's a good excuse for not doing anything. Right?
After all, there is nothing you can do to save yourself. Right?
Works don't save, so why bother with even thinking about it. Jesus did all the work and it's all done, over, nada, extinct, gone, and all that stuff. . All a person needs to do is nothing for the rapture is coming. Isn't it? Maybe? Hopefully?
Just wait on the Lord. Still waiting? Maybe with another 2000 plus posts, it will be all over. Ya think?

I think you misunderstand truth here works are a response to the finished work as newsboys not editors that have corrupted the truth over the years after the resurrection, focusing on the death and not the new life in Spirit and truth it is finished and we could just sit and do nothing, yet how can anyone if overjoyed by this sit and not do, that baffles me, for I ahve been here day after day and could just walk away, yet i am compelled to be here by Father, for did he not come here to set us free by giving us new life? Are we to represent this or you must do this or that
What is one's motive behind all one does is waht will be judged. I do not do works of my own anymore, I am available to be used by God whenever God sees fit anf the same to all that beleive, or why did those disciples have to wait if they could do the works? They had to wait, did they not? Obviously that shows me what I need is get me out of the way and trust god to do through me whatever needs done truth or error here Brother?

 

[posthuman]

According to you, everyone is saved... we should just throw our bibles away, God did everything for us, sent His Son so we could do nothing but sit and wait for heaven, and if anyone is lost, it is Gods fault, because he didn't do the work for them.

do you not want a slice of pie if everyone else can have one too?

“Now his older son was in the field, and as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. And he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. And he said to him,

‘Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf, because he has received him back safe and sound.’
​

But he was angry and refused to go in. His father came out and entreated him, but he answered his father,

‘Look, these many years I have served you, and I never disobeyed your command, yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours came, who has devoured your property with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him!’
​

And he said to him,

‘Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours. It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.’”

​

(Luke 15:21-32)

 

[homwardbound]

GOD told us how and when we can know we are SAVED:

1 John 2:3 (ASV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And hereby we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

First of all that "know HIM" is talking about and inner personal Love relationship whereby we willingly receive HIM as LORD, which means MASTER; and to "know HIM" like that evidence of having been SAVED. The verb "keep" there is in the GREEK perfect tense, not implying perfection, but rather a lifestyle of striving to keep. English only has three primary verb tenses (past, present, and future), whereas Greek has a fourth primary verb tense, called the Perfect tense. Despite it's name it does not imply perfection, instead it implies a continuous or ongoing action of doing that verb. It helps me to keep that straight in my head by calling it the Continuous Action Tense; and JOHN loved to use those Continuous Action Tense verbs especially in 1 John. They describe what the ongoing Christian lifestyle should be like.

How do we show Biblically that "to KNOW HIM" is equal to Salvation?

Matthew 7:21-23 (ASV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 25:8-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But the foolish ones said to the sensible ones, ‘Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
[SUP]9 [/SUP] “The sensible ones answered, ‘No, there won’t be enough for us and for you. Go instead to those who sell, and buy oil for yourselves.’
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “When they had gone to buy some, the groom arrived. Then those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] “Later the rest of the virgins also came and said, ‘Master, master, open up for us!’
[SUP]12 [/SUP] “But he replied, ‘I assure you: I do not know you!’

HENCE that inner personal LOVE relationship with JESUS as our LORD and Master is evidence we HAVE BEEN SAVED.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

Here is another example from 1 John with a Greek Perfect Tense verb, not found in English:

1 John 1:9 (ASV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That word confess also in in the Perfect Tense, implying that the Christian lifestyle will be characterized by an ongoing willingness to confess each new sin as we discover them.

I hope and pray that is helpful.

yes, God's spirit testifies with our Spirit and we then know, if that hasn't happened yet, then by all means those that haven't yet received keep, working at, for when you do come to the ned of the energy of your own flesh work efforts and see the incongruities is when one either finally passes over from death to life and are plain and simply overjoyed and thus are free in Spirit and truth, no longer focusing on whether they sin or not or doubting if they are listening or not. when seeing this epiphany tha tis when one crosses over or walks away
Love from Father to us all

 

[homwardbound]

do we thank God for all the great things we do or the great thing HE has done?

That is a short way in revealing the fight between Flesh and God's Spirit thanks

 

[homwardbound]

I find it hard to say something better.

Congrats!

That is why God placed us all here fro iron to sharpen iron Brother, even when or fi something presented is viewed as error. That might change and might not, that to me depends on if we sift everything to Father to separate any errors we pick up from truth Hebrews 8 a good chapter on this revelation

 

[Jabberjaw]

do you not want a slice of pie if everyone else can have one too?

“Now his older son was in the field, and as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. And he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. And he said to him,

‘Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf, because he has received him back safe and sound.’
​

But he was angry and refused to go in. His father came out and entreated him, but he answered his father,

‘Look, these many years I have served you, and I never disobeyed your command, yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours came, who has devoured your property with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him!’
​

And he said to him,

‘Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours. It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.’”

​

(Luke 15:21-32)

The prodigal son had to do something, he repented, changed his ways... your theology has it Gods fault he was wallowing with the pigs.

 

[LT]

The prodigal son had to do something, he repented, changed his ways... your theology has it Gods fault he was wallowing with the pigs.

is the story about repentance, or about hitting rock bottom?



God was sovereign over the situation, but not to be held responsible.

"who are you, oh man, to talk back to God?!"