Did Jesus Return in AD 70?

[eternally-gratefull]

Interesting viewpoint. I often wonder about the Transfiguration. I think the Transfiguration wasn't the giving of the prophecies of Revelations and that they came to John while he was in exile on the island of Patmos. Some could argue the Patmos part of it, but either way, didn't happen during the Transfiguration event because in Revelation 1:1 John say an angel gave it to him.

Though if you want to be technical to the utmost degreee, you could argue the Transfiguration was a sign of the End of Times since God is Alpha and Omega. Beautiful part of the Bible where Jesus opens up heaven showing much of his splendour and trully revealing his deity outright to the foremost apostles.

I think it was for Jesus sake. Look at what he was about to walk into. It was so severe, he sweat blood. We can not even imagine what he went through. I think this is God sending these men of old down to remind Jesus, This is what you came for. For us, And for all who came before and after.

I do not think this is where rev came from. makes no sense. It is obvious the Peter and the rest did not even know what was going on..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree, and there is a problem with everybody's that I have heard. And I wouldn't say that "it doesn't fit" as much as I don't have all of the pieces or I have a lack understanding (who doesn't).

That is why we should not be so hard set, and arogant about interpreting prophesy, for all we know. we all may be wrong, we will not know till it happens.

 

[Timeline]

That is why we should not be so hard set, and arogant about interpreting prophesy, for all we know. we all may be wrong, we will not know till it happens.

May we talk about

 

[Bookends]

Those that love to 'spiritualize' scriptures are of course going to 'spiritualize' his 2nd coming.
No longer in the flesh? Please.

Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house.

Can you please explain to me how this phrase applies to us today?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house.

Can you please explain to me how this phrase applies to us today?

you mean in Israel. where many people still party on the rooftops?

 

[Bookends]

you mean in Israel. where many people still party on the rooftops?

Do they? Have you been to Israel and actually seen people on their roof tops? And what do you mean by party?

 

[Bookends]

you mean in Israel. where many people still party on the rooftops?

This was a common practice for the people back in the day to escape the heat of the day, for their was limited space in the cities and they didn't have the modern commodities such as electricity or air conditioning. Come on EG, lol. Use some common sense. Looking at any modern pictures of Jerusalem today, or using Google earth, you just don't see people "partying" on housetops, and I doubt very much Jesus had "partying" on His mind when He said this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do they? Have you been to Israel and actually seen people on their roof tops? And what do you mean by party?

I mean they go up there and enjoy the night sky, or the daytime view. like men have been doing since houses were first built to withold their weightt. we have houses in the US that have rooftop patios, why would Israel not? and if you look at pictures in israel (especially the old city) many houses have these/.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This was a common practice for the people back in the day to escape the heat of the day, for their was limited space in the cities and they didn't have the modern commodities such as electricity or air conditioning. Come on EG, lol. Use some common sense. Looking at any modern pictures of Jerusalem today, or using Google earth, you just don't see people "partying" on housetops, and I doubt very much Jesus had "partying" on His mind when He said this.

you have never been to a beachside resort or anything like this have you?

come one bookends,, trying to prove your logic or belief is one thing, but to go to this extreme is quite another.

 

[Bookends]

you have never been to a beachside resort or anything like this have you?

come one bookends,, trying to prove your logic or belief is one thing, but to go to this extreme is quite another.

Sorry EG, I just see you scrambling to make this concept of hanging out on rooftops a common occurrence today and fit into your system of eschatology. Also, a balcony is not housetop, nor is a porch. Rooftop patios are not common today, period. I believe Jesus is talking about a common practice, and what a perfect place to observe the coming destruction upon Jerusalem from the Roman army, and then flee, which is exactly what the 1st century Christians did.

You do agree that every system of eschatology has it's problems, some more then others. You'd gain a lot more respect from me (although I already respect and love you, brother) if you could just admit that this is a problem with the futurists view of Matt. 24:3-34.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry EG, I just see you scrambling to make this concept of hanging out on rooftops a common occurrence today and fit into your system of eschatology. Also, a balcony is not housetop, nor is a porch. Rooftop patios are not common today, period. I believe Jesus is talking about a common practice, and what a perfect place to observe the coming destruction upon Jerusalem from the Roman army, and then flee, which is exactly what the 1st century Christians did.

I said it once, I will say it again, This is a weak argument.
not even worthy of arguing over.

You do agree that every system of eschatology has it's problems, some more then others. You'd gain a lot more respect from me (although I already respect and love you, brother) if you could just admit that this is a problem with the futurists view of Matt. 24:3-34.

why would I admit there is a problem, when I see none.

God always used the terms of that days events to show future events, It is all over the bible.

again this is a weak argument. It may be as you say, But to use this to argue 70 AD fulfilment would not be a very convincing argument.

 

[Bookends]

I said it once, I will say it again, This is a weak argument.
not even worthy of arguing over.


why would I admit there is a problem, when I see none.

God always used the terms of that days events to show future events, It is all over the bible.

again this is a weak argument. It may be as you say, But to use this to argue 70 AD fulfilment would not be a very convincing argument.

Well thank you for addressing my argument, however, I don't agree with your answer nor is it in my view/opinion a satisfactory one. I think its a strong argument for 70AD, along with many other strong points, such as the nature of the question asked (pertaining to the temple and end of the age) and the fact that Jesus told them that some of them would not see death until all these things occurred (Matt. 24:34). It's quite clear to me Jesus was talking to that generation about that generation. It seems odd to me that whenever Jesus said "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation..." it always applies to that generation he spoke too, except when it comes to Matt. 24:34.

Need to take off the 21st century Goggles EG, and interpret the bible in context/epic of time/problems and conditions/original audience would have. Amazing how two guys who love the Lord can come to opposing viewpoints on this stuff isn't it? May the Holy Spirit teach us both. Perhaps the HS doesn't view this as important as the essentials. Love you bro.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well thank you for addressing my argument, however, I don't agree with your answer nor is it in my view/opinion a satisfactory one. I think its a strong argument for 70AD, along with many other strong points, such as the nature of the question asked (pertaining to the temple and end of the age) and the fact that Jesus told them that some of them would not see death until all these things occurred (Matt. 24:34). It's quite clear to me Jesus was talking to that generation about that generation. It seems odd to me that whenever Jesus said "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation..." it always applies to that generation he spoke too, except when it comes to Matt. 24:34.

Need to take off the 21st century Goggles EG, and interpret the bible in context/epic of time/problems and conditions/original audience would have. Amazing how two guys who love the Lord can come to opposing viewpoints on this stuff isn't it? May the Holy Spirit teach us both. Perhaps the HS doesn't view this as important as the essentials. Love you bro.

well I disagree.

rome did not rule every nation tribe and language
they did not control all finances of the world.
mankind was not in danger of extinction, causing the return of Christ.
there was no false prophet or beast ruled by satan
God did not destroy the gentile nations who were against him and his people.

I can go on and on and on. with many many other things which COULD not have happened in AD 70. but what good would it do?


as for the generation. quite a few things were spoken of by Jesus in Matt 24. He answered 3 questions. one of them happened to be fulfilled in 70 AD, there is no argiument there.

love ya too bro

 

[mrsouthside]

All the Tribulation saints who endured to the end (the completion of the age, Daniel’s 70th week) are physically saved and enter the Millennial Kingdom. They enter with their natural unglorified bodies. That generation of people living at the time will not die or pass away to live through the thousand years of Messiahs reign. Jesus comes back with saints who are glorified, because they have been resurrected.


The Lord Jesus Christ “will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom” (2 Timothy 4:1).

As we can see from Scripture His kingdom comes accompanied with His physical appearing, they are simultaneous events, and it comes with judgment as well as a blessing (Matthew 25:31-34) he separates the sheep from the goats, only those who are saved will enter the Millennium that has commenced from his return.


Mt. 25:31-34: "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. "All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. "And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world”
vv.:40-41 "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.' "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels”


Was the population judged as depicted in Mt.25? Was there a time when everyone was a believer on earth and went into the millennial reign. Was all of Israel saved? That is what the Bible says. But what the Bible describes and what Preterism describe are two different things.


Matt. 19:28: “And Jesus said to them, Verily I say unto you, That ye who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit down upon His throne of [kingdom] glory, ye also shall sit on twelve thrones,judging [ruling] the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

As far as the Rooftops Topic goes. That is yet to come in the day in which the Abomination of Desolation is set up. A woeful day that will be indeed. So seeing as that has not even happened yet, it is safe to assume it certainly didn't occur in 70 AD and hasn't occured as of yet. When this event does happen though, run far far away and don't look back.

 

[Bookends]

As far as the Rooftops Topic goes. That is yet to come in the day in which the Abomination of Desolation is set up. A woeful day that will be indeed. So seeing as that has not even happened yet, it is safe to assume it certainly didn't occur in 70 AD and hasn't occured as of yet. When this event does happen though, run far far away and don't look back.

No, I don't believe this, the Abomination of Desolation that Jesus mentions in Matt. 24 had already happened, in the persecution of the Jews by Anticochus IV Epiphanes. Jesus is simply making a reference back to this prophecy to give the early Christians a warning, that when they see such a thing, a man setting up an idol in the temple and offering an abominable sacrifice, it's time to go.

For what you say to be true, you need a physical temple. We don't have one, and I don't think you'll ever see one...but until you do, Christ can not come. There you guys go again, setting up conditions for His return, almost as bad as date setting.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

No, I don't believe this, the Abomination of Desolation that Jesus mentions in Matt. 24 had already happened, in the persecution of the Jews by Anticochus IV Epiphanes. Jesus is simply making a reference back to this prophecy to give the early Christians a warning, that when they see such a thing, a man setting up an idol in the temple and offering an abominable sacrifice, it's time to go.

For what you say to be true, you need a physical temple. We don't have one, and I don't think you'll ever see one...but until you do, Christ can not come. There you guys go again, setting up conditions for His return, almost as bad as date setting.

The statue of Zeus was placed on the Altar of Sacrifices, not in the holy place. The Altar of Sacrifices where the abomination of the Greeks was set up was outside the Temple, not inside it. Furthermore Judas Maccabbeus tore down the abomination of the Greeks well before Jesus time. Therefore the Abomination of Desolation is not the abomination of Zeus put up during the time of Antiochus IV.

Plus you know, there has to be the whole war on earth, war in heaven, and all those signs that come before the Abomination of Desolation.

As for the physical Temple, whoever said we don't have one?

 

[kennethcadwell]

We don't set up the conditions, the bible tells us what to look for. Jesus even said what to look for before His return, and some of those have not happened yet. Plus if you read Ezekiel you will read of a temple God showed him that would be built, and the dimensions mentioned do not math the 1st and 2nd temple dimensions.

Plus if Jesus already made His second coming, where is the 1000 years of everybody on earth being under His rule. The battle of Armageddon has not happened, and also why is there still suffering, sadness, evil, and wars taking place when the bible says that will be no more.

No, I don't believe this, the Abomination of Desolation that Jesus mentions in Matt. 24 had already happened, in the persecution of the Jews by Anticochus IV Epiphanes. Jesus is simply making a reference back to this prophecy to give the early Christians a warning, that when they see such a thing, a man setting up an idol in the temple and offering an abominable sacrifice, it's time to go.

For what you say to be true, you need a physical temple. We don't have one, and I don't think you'll ever see one...but until you do, Christ can not come. There you guys go again, setting up conditions for His return, almost as bad as date setting.

 

[And]

OOO yai yai
Jesus can do anything he wants to do
he can come
AN
NEEEE
TIME!
and he will

cause he will SURPRISE you
like theef in the nayt

 

[Timeline]

No, I don't believe this, the Abomination of Desolation that Jesus mentions in Matt. 24 had already happened, in the persecution of the Jews by Anticochus IV Epiphanes. Jesus is simply making a reference back to this prophecy to give the early Christians a warning, that when they see such a thing, a man setting up an idol in the temple and offering an abominable sacrifice, it's time to go.

For what you say to be true, you need a physical temple. We don't have one, and I don't think you'll ever see one...but until you do, Christ can not come. There you guys go again, setting up conditions for His return, almost as bad as date setting.

I know this is not a popular belief, but I think that the abomination of desolation may have been Caiaphas or Pontius. Caiaphas denied Jesus and asked for a murderer to be released. He also said, "We have no King except Caesar!", denying Jesus and God (I am not debating at this point that they are not the same, but Caiaphas most likely did not consider Jesus and God to be one). God was killed by his own people. Whether the abomination was Caiaphas or Pontius (who I believe was in the temple when he made the judgment to allow Jesus to be killed) I cannot think of a greater abomination than the Son of God being beaten and killed at the request of the chosen people!