K
SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I know they don't but you apparently didn't know that. But even Luke does not proclaim forgiveness of IS salvation. It is one of the ingredients that makes salvation possible for man in this life. That was the whole purpose of Christ reconciling the world, giving life to the world, freeing mankind from the bondage to death and sin.
The forgiveness of sin makes our relationship with Christ possible. Sin and God does not mix. One cannot be IN Christ and sin. Which is why Christ provided for the forgiveness of sin.
Which is why your whole notion that somehow when man is declared not guilty, he is saved. That is basically Anselmism.
You should study that doctrine to see just what you actually believe and why it is false.
Are you serious? If you cannot hear Paul in Eph 4 how will you hear me.If you don't know your body (the temple of the Holy Spirit) was set apart and sealed for the last day. Then you will desecrate the temple and remove the seal, but ignorance is not an excuse.
Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Besides the other obvious distortions you also do not understand the meaning of the phrase "faith of Jesus". You seem to forget, or just don't acknowledge that Christ had a human nature just like ours, in fact the very same nature. In keeping the will of the Father who sent Him Jesus kept faith by His human nature to bear the suffering, even temptations for the salvation He gave to the world. This is why this "faith of Jesus" is not what saves us directly, (it saved every human being from death and sin) so that it is the model and example for our own faiths in our individual salvation. If we can live our faith as He lived His faith, obeying the Father, His will, not Christ's will in His human nature, we shall be saved indeed. But we as individuals are not being saved by the faith of Jesus.
It is quite obvious that proponents of this, what someone has translated into OSAS, which is probably accurate, have moved from Luther's Faith ONLY, to Calvin's predestinated perseverance of the Saints, OSAS. Maybe they go hand in hand, but it is a mutilation of scripture with all the end-arounds, redefining words, phrases, whole doctrines to fit not one but two false theories.
Am I missing something here?
[h=2]be·lieve[/h] verb \bə-ˈlēv\ : to accept or regard (something) as true
: to accept the truth of what is said by (someone)
: to have (a specified opinion)
[h=2]ac·knowl·edge[/h] transitive verb \ik-ˈnä-lij, ak-\ : to say that you accept or do not deny the truth or existence of (something)
: to regard or describe (someone or something) as having or deserving a particular status
: to tell or show someone that something (such as a letter or message) has been received
If you truly believe and acknowledge Jesus as Lord and Saviour tell me how do you keeping his temple holy? How do you obey him?
1Tim
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
If you say keeping the word of God has no bearing on your salvation (you can choose to live like the devil in hell if you decide) and you will still be saved. Are you hearing yourself man? The word of God is is life and truth and has every bearing on your salvation. I fear for you. You HAVE to live in the word, eat the word, drink the word,live the word obey the word, it is the proof that the spirit Christ lives in you, which is the seal of approval.That you may be saved in the last day.
You have been brainwashed to a FALSE GOSPEL that says
NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< etc
but actually that is a lie
let me counteract that with a few Bible verses of truth
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
maybe that will help
NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< NO WORKS< etc
but actually that is a lie
let me counteract that with a few Bible verses of truth
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;
maybe that will help
Oh, the church that you go to that teaches no works
and that those who keep the commandments will perish
i think it is best you leave that syndagogue of satan
if you want to live.
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
and that those who keep the commandments will perish
i think it is best you leave that syndagogue of satan
if you want to live.
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
I bet Pelagius and Calvin would of had great debates with one another if they lived at the same time. Thank God for Luther!!!
That you don't see the self-evident and the obvious is not surprising.
Re-examine posts #1332 and #1333.
It's time for the hot air to stop, and to give up arguing about your contra-Scriptural position.
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Hi,
That would be Mat 6:15
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
My statement applied to unforgiveness, not forgiveness.
Many have counterfeit faith, which even does marvelous works, with no good deeds at all (Mt 7:21-23),
or with all manner of good deeds, such as forgiving, but in the time of testing it falls away (Lk 8:13;
1Jn 2:19) because it was never true faith, it had no root (Lk 8:13) of rebirth,
it was only counterfeit faith which did not persevere (1Jn 2:19).
My point is simply
that forgiving is not the test of salvation, saving faith (belief + obedience)
which perseveres is the only test; and
that unforgiveness is from an unforgiving heart, which gives evidence
that it does not know God's free forgiveness (which is salvation--Lk 1:77).
Read it again (Lk 1:77).
With no common final authority as the basis for resolving our opposing differences,
you are wasting your time and ours here.
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Does this mean I am working?
HAHHAH No it means you are being biblical in your stance for the truth and are holding your ground in the present engagement of evil against the truth that is being leveled at you by the hierarchy of evil found listed in the verses immediately before the listing of the suit of armor.
I have not made one statement contrary with being biblical, being obedient unto the word and serving God faithfully which will produce biblical fruit (works)....That is not the contention as the contention is...
1. Saved, justified and eternally sealed by the Faith OF CHRIST=A spirit born of God that does not sin, cannot loose it's salvation and is ETERNALLY SAVED AND SECURE in CHRIST based upon simple faith into Jesus and HIS COMPLETED WORK while acknowledging that faith by public PROFESSION of FAITH....
OR
2. MAN Saves himself and keeps himself saved by works, man initiates faith, works for his salvation and can loose his salvation...
Scriptures teach number 1 as truth!
Scriptures label number two as a gospel of a different kind which has no power to save and is double cursed by a man who was inspired by God and who wrote almost half of the N.T.
I haven't said that at all and I suggest you put your glasses on and read every post I have made in CC before you start mouthing without all the facts mi amigo....
Now, put your peeps on and go read every post that I have had made and then come back and make a correct judgment call about what I believe.....
More scriptures that do not have anything to do with salvation of the eternal soul as Timothy was already possessing eternal salvation....So I assume you also think that the work and faith of Jesus is not enough to save your spirit which does not sin, cannot loose it's salvation and is eternally secure and sealed in the faith and blood of Christ?
Keep believing in your works over Jesus as your means of salvation and you will find yourself in the crowd that is being cast into hell/lake of fire while claiming the right to enter heaven based upon your own works and Jesus will tell you that he never knew you! Works are not the way to get to heaven...biblical faith into the FAITH OF JESUS AND belief into his COMPLETED WORK for total SALVATION and JUSTIFICATION before the THRONE of GOD!
It is you and your twisty cousins that do not understand that it is the FAITH OF CHRIST that saves and justifies us and I would suggest a study of Ephesians and Galatians in context without any twisty donut words you usually use so as to get the truth before you end up going someplace that you don't want to go and you are confident that your own works will keep you form going there....
BELIEVE and thou SHALT BE SAVED<--Biblical and is the only door and acceptable way unto the God of heaven and is inspired of God!
BELIEVE AND SUPPLIMENT IT WITH WORKS AND THOU SHALT BE SAVED<--False, man made religion, not accepted by God, gospel of a different kind, double cursed to hell and will take you to the lake of fire!
What that actually means for a sola scripturist over the last 500 years is that one's opinion cannot be overruled by another man's opinion. Thus we have thousands of Christs, of means of salvation, all developed by man. Is that the authority of which you speak?
Your usual twisted reply avoided the question entirely and your accusations testify to your inability to answer any questions with scripture in context because your doctrine is flawed....
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
How is it that we can cause the Holy Spirit to grieve?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
nah,
we only have three means of salvation taught, Although maybe thousands of different ways.
1. Licentious (say a prayer no change
2. Faith - Only
3. legalistic - have to earn it by some amount of works (the catholics have the most amount of works, so they must be the closest to God etc)