Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[VCO]

Here is the reason I so hate this false gospel. I've seen the whole island nation of the Bahamas become more corrupt because of the corruption of the church. You see, they tell everyone in the church who are stealing from their jobs, living blatantly in sexual immorality, partaking in the drug trade - that they are forever saved. . . . This is why many today have abandoned the church.
Tell me, how do you judge between Hitler who was a believer, or the man who is on death row who gave his life to Christ though never really changed or the men who are selling drugs and singing in the choir. If you can not live differently from the world, then you have no solution for those in the world. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. . . .

Hitler was NOT a believer, taking up space on a pew does not make you a believer. JESUS said you will know the phonies from the real Christians by their FRUIT, that is lifestyle characteristics. Adolf Hitler's fruit was ALL BAD FRUIT.

Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

The Bible also said that the enemy (Satan) will sow Tares (phonies) among the Wheat (true Christians). Christ also taught that we are NOT TO THROW THE TARES OUT. WHY? Primarily because HE said faith comes by hearing the Word of GOD taught. THEREFORE Jesus Christ is in the business of turning Tares into Wheat. In case you do not know, Tares are a weed that looks exactly like wheat, but when the harvest comes, you will definitely be able to tell the true from the false by what they produce.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And some of you used to be like this. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

You also do not seem to be speaking from a personal experience of what was said in the sermons, but rather from what others outside the CHURCH say the Church teaches. THERE are a GREAT MANY who only have bits and pieces information instead of the whole Truth, who love to put down the whole Church, even though they have to spread lies to do it. Why do they love to spread those lies? To give themselves an excuse not to be obedient to Christ and especially this verse:

Hebrews 10:24-25 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And let us be concerned about one another in order to promote love and good works,
[SUP]25 [/SUP] not staying away from our ⌊worship⌋ meetings, as some habitually do, but encouraging each other, and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

SEE IT, as we get close to the DAY Christ comes back, we are supposed to be even MORE faithful to our Church Meetings.

Now you are expecting the Church to MAKE THE WORLD BETTER, but that is not Biblical at all. In Fact, in the end times, which we are at least at the beginning of, if not a long ways into it, it is prophesied that the world would get, worse and worse. It even Prophesied that there would be MANY FALSE TEACHERS, AND MANY FALSE CHRISTS and still we were to go to Church ALL THE MORE. No we are not going to turn the whole World around, because Satan is the one ruling this World. We are here to snatch a few as from the fire itself, it has always been just the few.

1 John 5:19 (NIV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Luke 13:23-24 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] “Lord,” someone asked Him, “are there few being saved?” He said to them,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because I tell you, many will try to enter and won’t be able
Who is responsible to find a Church that does Teach the Bible, as GOD would have it taught. THAT WOULD BE YOU. First of all, get to know your Bible and what it actually teaches, then when searching for a new Church, ASK for a Doctrinal Statement of Faith, read through it, to be sure it squares with Scripture. Then make an appointment with the Pastor, and ask him to explain anything you still have questions about. Are there counterfeits of REAL Christian Churches? OF COURSE THERE IS, it was Prophesied there would be. The Devil loves to produce counterfeits of real Christianity to discredit real Christianity. It appears you fell for the Devil's Tricks.

You complained at length how in your opinion there are many problems in the Church, using it as an excuse to stay away from the teaching of the Word. So tell me, what Church were you involved in before you noticed the problems? What did you do to try to help solve the problems? Tell me which Church, and I will look up their Doctrinal Statement of Faith, to see if there are biblical errors. Or are you just a none Church goer still making up excuses not to go?

If you are still listening to me, that is a good sign. I just did a search for a very good BIBLICALLY SOUND, Bible Teaching Church, and here is one that I came up with that I would have no problem attending and worshipping with:

Bahamas Baptist Church
Beliefs - Bahama Baptist Church - Exalt. Equip. Evangelize

That site is their Doctrinal Statement of Faith, and that is what you want to see anytime you are searching for a new Church. Funny, how their Doctrinal Statement does not support what you thought was going in ALL the Churches on the Bahamas.

What I liked about their Doctrinal Statement is the abundance of supporting verses for EACH Doctrinal Statement. PLEASE read through their Statements and see what you think.

 

[homwardbound]

I see that Abraham's and Noah's faith would have been D-E-A-D without works. What good would have been Abrahams' faith if he did not obey by leaving land, house and kindred to a land God would show him, Heb 11:8?

If one believes God will they not do as told, what if it is not God, Abraham learned God's voice after the mistake he made in thinking to have the promised child by the slave woman Hagar, yes or no? Are we as well learning also.
Now before the promised Child finally came it had been approximately 29 years, and then a little later God says to take my Child to a sacrifice and kill him, and Abraham, knew iut was God's voice and trusted God to even raise his Son back to life willing to go all the way,
And what God stopped Abraham in doing did himself with Son Christ and rose him from the dead.
So I say learn God's voice in all truth and walk by the Spirit of God and be led by God and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, that you still do, not wanting to, For we serve the Law of sin and death by flesh, carnal nature, and need tol renew our minds to the Spiri9t oif God thsat God has given to us in the Son's resurrection in Spirit and truth, no flesh can enter here in heaven, we are all in unredeemed bodies of flesh, that can not please God. These bodies can and do please people or not and we all get caught up in this judging, relating this to as if god is pleased or not pleased by what we are doing or not doing,
Praying your Spiritual ears are in tune.
God grace is and has never been meant to take for granted to be used as an escape goat to sin
Rather to appreciate to trust God to show you how to trust to not sin and walk in Spirit and truth 24/7 if at all possible.
The best anyone can do in this truth is die daily to self and be alive daily in Spirit and truth

One day at a time, your now new old practice to try to be right is fading away, and your new practice to just trust is beginning, and as your new practice becomes a habit to do in dying to self daily, your old trait that has become a part of you from your first practice will fight yuo tooth and nail not to give up being the center of attention, and will take time to fade away
A practice always if practiced long enough will become a habit then a Characteristic, then a trait
So ones old man set in stone, will not change at first, especially when first born again with a true heart of original flesh that Father has given you back before the fall of Adam, and if you keep at it in Faith wanting to enter God's rest you will, as long as you do not give up, no matter what happens, You will see the light and it is bright

Stand fast in knowing Father will come through to show how deep his love is for you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually your wrong.
Titus 2:11 clearly states salvation is given to all men. But in order to take grasp of this salvation you must do what the word says. Whosoever will, let him come. You can only recieve a gift if you accept it.

Actually, you are wrong.

Paul tells titus it appeared to all men. They have seen it, It does not say all men are saved.

Appearing to. And recieve by are not the same..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How many false teachings of men have you grabbed onto anyway.

Spiritual death is a minor thing compared to physical death.

It is minor?

Do you not realise spiritual death is separation from god. and you call this minor? Physical death only separates our soul from our body, For those who have been born again, there is no fear in death, to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord.

If you die still spiritually dead. Your doomed forever, Spiritual death is MUCH more severe than physical. To those who have been born again, the sting of death is no more.

You need to stop listening to men, and start studying your bible. The men you place your faith in have led you astray and are not teaching you at all.

 

[homwardbound]

Rom 5:2 shows/proves tha grace alone cannot save. How many faithless people will grace alone save? None, zero, nil, nada, zilch

If one truly believes; Father starts the work in them and will carry it on to the end, do you not believe God? I do and still stand and see what Father has shown me and i trust to be able to do, not me Father through ,me as was shown by Christ, Christ walked in Faith and did as told, is this not for us to do the same?
If any of our works that are done are not a result of trust in the living God, then the works are a clanging symbol. you think? and the only rewards we will ever receive in this type of work is from others, and we get deceived into thinking it is from God when it might not be? How do you feel when someone rewards you for what they tell you is good behavior? That right there tells me if I am walking by flesh or the Spirit of God

 

[homwardbound]

1 jn 2:24; 2 pet 1:8; James 5:19 among others use the conditional word "IF" when it comes to being saved. So salvation can be forfeited.

Why would anyone want to forfeit such an amazing salvation, where you do not have to do any works for it?
Won't you respond with gladness and do the works willingly?
Is there a difference here?

 

[Cassian]

Hitler was NOT a believer, taking up space on a pew does not make you a believer. JESUS said you will know the phonies from the real Christians by their FRUIT, that is lifestyle characteristics. Adolf Hitler's fruit was ALL BAD FRUIT.

Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

The Bible also said that the enemy (Satan) will sow Tares (phonies) among the Wheat (true Christians). Christ also taught that we are NOT TO THROW THE TARES OUT. WHY? Primarily because HE said faith comes by hearing the Word of GOD taught. THEREFORE Jesus Christ is in the business of turning Tares into Wheat. In case you do not know, Tares are a weed that looks exactly like wheat, but when the harvest comes, you will definitely be able to tell the true from the false by what they produce.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And some of you used to be like this. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

You also do not seem to be speaking from a personal experience of what was said in the sermons, but rather from what others outside the CHURCH say the Church teaches. THERE are a GREAT MANY who only have bits and pieces information instead of the whole Truth, who love to put down the whole Church, even though they have to spread lies to do it. Why do they love to spread those lies? To give themselves an excuse not to be obedient to Christ and especially this verse:

Hebrews 10:24-25 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And let us be concerned about one another in order to promote love and good works,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]not staying away from our ⌊worship⌋ meetings, as some habitually do, but encouraging each other, and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

SEE IT, as we get close to the DAY Christ comes back, we are supposed to be even MORE faithful to our Church Meetings.

Now you are expecting the Church to MAKE THE WORLD BETTER, but that is not Biblical at all. In Fact, in the end times, which we are at least at the beginning of, if not a long ways into it, it is prophesied that the world would get, worse and worse. It even Prophesied that there would be MANY FALSE TEACHERS, AND MANY FALSE CHRISTS and still we were to go to Church ALL THE MORE. No we are not going to turn the whole World around, because Satan is the one ruling this World. We are here to snatch a few as from the fire itself, it has always been just the few.

1 John 5:19 (NIV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Luke 13:23-24 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Lord,” someone asked Him, “are there few being saved?” He said to them,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because I tell you, many will try to enter and won’t be able
Who is responsible to find a Church that does Teach the Bible, as GOD would have it taught. THAT WOULD BE YOU. First of all, get to know your Bible and what it actually teaches, then when searching for a new Church, ASK for a Doctrinal Statement of Faith, read through it, to be sure it squares with Scripture. Then make an appointment with the Pastor, and ask him to explain anything you still have questions about. Are there counterfeits of REAL Christian Churches? OF COURSE THERE IS, it was Prophesied there would be. The Devil loves to produce counterfeits of real Christianity to discredit real Christianity. It appears you fell for the Devil's Tricks.

You complained at length how in your opinion there are many problems in the Church, using it as an excuse to stay away from the teaching of the Word. So tell me, what Church were you involved in before you noticed the problems? What did you do to try to help solve the problems? Tell me which Church, and I will look up their Doctrinal Statement of Faith, to see if there are biblical errors. Or are you just a none Church goer still making up excuses not to go?

If you are still listening to me, that is a good sign. I just did a search for a very good BIBLICALLY SOUND, Bible Teaching Church, and here is one that I came up with that I would have no problem attending and worshipping with:

Bahamas Baptist Church
Beliefs - Bahama Baptist Church - Exalt. Equip. Evangelize

That site is their Doctrinal Statement of Faith, and that is what you want to see anytime you are searching for a new Church. Funny, how their Doctrinal Statement does not support what you thought was going in ALL the Churches on the Bahamas.

What I liked about their Doctrinal Statement is the abundance of supporting verses for EACH Doctrinal Statement. PLEASE read through their Statements and see what you think.

This shows the vacuousness of your theology respective of scripture. Scripture clearly states that if one beleives, repents, is baptised, one is a believer. Both Hitler and Stalin were baptised, thus believers. But they renounced their faith in God, which is exactly what scripture is trying to convey to you, that one is not saved just because they believed at one time. Faith to be salvific MUST be continuous. If not, is does not exist. Which is why we are being exhorted to make sure we are in faith, IN Christ, and have not departed. There is no guarantee for man that anyone can remain faithful. It is a work, a work that we do with the Holy Spirit. But man has grieved, quenched the Holy Spirit many tiimes and examples exist in scripture.
It also appears that you might have fallen for the devil's trick as well. Your theory sounds very much like the one he gave to Eve and deceived her.

 

[notuptome]

This shows the vacuousness of your theology respective of scripture. Scripture clearly states that if one beleives, repents, is baptised, one is a believer. Both Hitler and Stalin were baptised, thus believers. But they renounced their faith in God, which is exactly what scripture is trying to convey to you, that one is not saved just because they believed at one time. Faith to be salvific MUST be continuous. If not, is does not exist. Which is why we are being exhorted to make sure we are in faith, IN Christ, and have not departed. There is no guarantee for man that anyone can remain faithful. It is a work, a work that we do with the Holy Spirit. But man has grieved, quenched the Holy Spirit many tiimes and examples exist in scripture.
It also appears that you might have fallen for the devil's trick as well. Your theory sounds very much like the one he gave to Eve and deceived her.

Might have made them good Catholics but not Christians. One cannot repent of or recant the new birth in Christ received by grace through faith.

The butterfly cannot go back to the caterpillar. The change according to the new birth is no less dramatic and unchangeable.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jabberjaw]

lol.. do you believe what God said or not?

accorrding to his post. you DO NOT BELIEVE GOD WHEN HE SAID,


John 6: [SUP]28 [/SUP]Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

i do not think anything else needs to be said to you. You just called jesus a liar.

I means you are clueless as to what it means to believe on him...

One side of your mouth says Jesus did it all, men don't have to do a thing making every man ever saved or it is his fault, then you say man must receive the gift, which is it?

 

[Cassian]

It is minor?

Do you not realise spiritual death is separation from god. and you call this minor? Physical death only separates our soul from our body, For those who have been born again, there is no fear in death, to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord.

If you die still spiritually dead. Your doomed forever, Spiritual death is MUCH more severe than physical. To those who have been born again, the sting of death is no more.

You need to stop listening to men, and start studying your bible. The men you place your faith in have led you astray and are not teaching you at all.

If Christ had not come, you would not have a heaven or hell. Who would occupy it. Man and the world would simply be dissolving into dust. The condemnation was decay, corruption, death. Death was a permanent state, in other words you would not exist after death. That might be much perferably for those who reject Christ and are spiritually separated from them, but not from God's perspective. God will still give grace to those in hell, after all they are still creatures who need God to sustain life, God's love never faileth either, and will continue to be given to those in hell.

The perspective from God is that He is sovereign and satan is NOT the ruler over His creation and surely those He created in His Image, through the power of death.

You obviously do not understand either of these scriptural teachings.
the purpose of God creating man.
The fall of man,
The salvation of man from te fall.
And our personal salvation by becoming LIKE God, being transformed into HIS Likeness as it was the purpose from the beginning with Adam.

You have some kind of superficial concept of all of these points. None of them are scriptural as it was understood from the beginning. You hold many man made innovations imposed upon scripture.

 

[Cassian]

Why would anyone want to forfeit such an amazing salvation, where you do not have to do any works for it?
Won't you respond with gladness and do the works willingly?
Is there a difference here?

Maybe you should ask Adam. He forfeited his salvation, being made into the Likeness of God.
And not only that, he did not live in a sinful environment yet, nor did he have a mortal nature as yet. Yet he still fell. And yoiu think you are impervious to falling?

 

[Cassian]

Might have made them good Catholics but not Christians. One cannot repent of or recant the new birth in Christ received by grace through faith.

The butterfly cannot go back to the caterpillar. The change according to the new birth is no less dramatic and unchangeable.
Funny that Adam was able to do it. God did not stop him from having a relationship with God. Your theology consistantly does not align with scripture.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

nice warm fuzzy philosophial perspective. But hardly scripture unfortunately.

 

[VCO]

This shows the vacuousness of your theology respective of scripture. Scripture clearly states that if one beleives, repents, is baptised, one is a believer. Both Hitler and Stalin were baptised, thus believers. But they renounced their faith in God, which is exactly what scripture is trying to convey to you, that one is not saved just because they believed at one time. Faith to be salvific MUST be continuous. If not, is does not exist. Which is why we are being exhorted to make sure we are in faith, IN Christ, and have not departed. There is no guarantee for man that anyone can remain faithful. It is a work, a work that we do with the Holy Spirit. But man has grieved, quenched the Holy Spirit many tiimes and examples exist in scripture.
It also appears that you might have fallen for the devil's trick as well. Your theory sounds very much like the one he gave to Eve and deceived her.

Don't take this personal, because I am speaking to the one controlling your thoughts:

Get thee behind me Satan!

 

[VCO]

It is minor?

Do you not realise spiritual death is separation from god. and you call this minor? Physical death only separates our soul from our body, For those who have been born again, there is no fear in death, to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord.

If you die still spiritually dead. Your doomed forever, Spiritual death is MUCH more severe than physical. To those who have been born again, the sting of death is no more.

You need to stop listening to men, and start studying your bible. The men you place your faith in have led you astray and are not teaching you at all.

Oh boy, I just read the response, oh how they go from one level of evil false teaching, to next, and to the next, ever spiraling downwards. Read his opinion about Hitler being a believer, shocking isn't it. With such a shallow definition of the word believe, is it any wonder how so many get deceived. How many with that false belief go into a Baptistery a dry sinner, only to come out a wet sinner, and nothing more?

 

[Cassian]

Don't take this personal, because I am speaking to the one controlling your thoughts:

Get thee behind me Satan!

Which also shows just how far you are from scripture. Isn't any wonder you cannot understand that a person can lose faith. You have some unbiblical superficial defintion of a believer. Yet scripture is quite clear that if one is believes, is baptised, he has eternal life. But here is the difference between scripture and your faulty view, scripture states that faith must be continuous, cannot fail, cannot stop. If it does, obviously one does not have eternal life. Both of these men were bonefied, scriptually defined believers. They aptly fit the description of Heb 6:4. They also fit the description of I John 2:19.

 

[VCO]

Which also shows just how far you are from scripture. Isn't any wonder you cannot understand that a person can lose faith. You have some unbiblical superficial defintion of a believer. Yet scripture is quite clear that if one is believes, is baptised, he has eternal life. But here is the difference between scripture and your faulty view, scripture states that faith must be continuous, cannot fail, cannot stop. If it does, obviously one does not have eternal life. Both of these men were bonefied, scriptually defined believers. They aptly fit the description of Heb 6:4. They also fit the description of I John 2:19.

Superficial? ? ? Not even CLOSE.

No deep personal LOVE relationship with Jesus Christ as Lord and Master, means you are not a real Christian.

No immersion into the body of Christ, means you are not SAVED.

No HOLY SPIRIT IN YOU, bringing your previous Dead to the will of GOD human spirit,
to become ETERNALLY ALIVE TO THE WILL OF GOD desiring to love and serve HIM forever,
means you are NOT ONE OF HIS.

No Deep sense of your own Sinfulness, mourning over it, crying out for JESUS CHRIST TO SAVE you,
means you never had the Holy Spirit in you convicting you of that Sinfulness.

NO Desire to LOVE HIM by obedience, because He first loved you, means you came through the WRONG GATE.

No Fruit of the Holy Spirit being manifested in your life, means you have fallen for a False Doctrine.

THOSE are the TRUE characteristics of a "bonefied, scriptually defined believer", PERIOD.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Superficial? ? ? Not even CLOSE.

No deep personal LOVE relationship with Jesus Christ as Lord and Master, means you are not a real Christian.

No immersion into the body of Christ, means you are not SAVED.

No HOLY SPIRIT IN YOU, bringing your previous Dead to the will of GOD human spirit,
to become ETERNALLY ALIVE TO THE WILL OF GOD desiring to love and serve HIM forever,
means you are NOT ONE OF HIS.

No Deep sense of your own Sinfulness, mourning over it, crying out for JESUS CHRIST TO SAVE you,
means you never had the Holy Spirit in you convicting you of that Sinfulness.

NO Desire to LOVE HIM by obedience, because He first loved you, means you came through the WRONG GATE.

No Fruit of the Holy Spirit being manifested in your life, means you have fallen for a False Doctrine.

THOSE are the TRUE characteristics of a "bonefied, scriptually defined believer", PERIOD.

So your saying you have to "do something" to be a christian?

 

[cjordan38]

Actually, you are wrong.

Paul tells titus it appeared to all men. They have seen it, It does not say all men are saved.

Appearing to. And recieve by are not the same..

People are so unlearned, look at what you just said. Salvation doesnt save you. Salvation is given to all. Just as this mythical santa clause gives children gifts. Its either they accept them or they dont. You like it or you dont. Choose ye this day whom ye will serve. Salvation works the same way. And clearly you didnt read my response......

 

[Cassian]

Superficial? ? ? Not even CLOSE.

No

deep personal LOVE relationship with Jesus Christ as Lord and Master, means you are not a real Christian.

which is why beleivers are told to continue to love. If you love me, keep my commandments. Obviously, if one does not keep the commandments they are no longer believers. Scripture just abouds with refutation of your theology.

No

immersion into the body of Christ, means you are not SAVED.

Correct, even being immersed, baptism does not save anyone, but one CANNOT be saved without it.

No

HOLY SPIRIT IN YOU, bringing your previous Dead to the will of GOD human spirit,
to become ETERNALLY ALIVE TO THE WILL OF GOD desiring to love and serve HIM forever,
means you are NOT ONE OF HIS.

nice but man can quench the Spirit. Man can and scripture is full of examples of believers denying God by their actions.

No

Deep sense of your own Sinfulness, mourning over it, crying out for JESUS CHRIST TO SAVE you,
means you never had the Holy Spirit in you convicting you of that Sinfulness.

but obviously man fall back into sin. They prefer the pleasures of this world more than Christ. An emotional conviction does not save a person either. This is the typical alter call, which can actually be done on the web in a few seconds. One can go from sinner to saint guaranteed in less than 5 minutes. Hardly Gospel teaching.

NO

Desire to LOVE HIM by obedience, because He first loved you, means you came through the WRONG GATE.

Many obey f or a long time, bear much fruit. But for whatever reason, they depart. They deny Christ. They no longer keep His commandments, therefore shows they do not love Him any longer. Which is why scripture exhorts all believers to remain faithful. Losing faith is losing the promise at the end.

No

Fruit of the Holy Spirit being manifested in your life, means you have fallen for a False Doctrine.

That could very well be a reason many fall away. But the fact that before they fell, they were a bonefied believer, who was IN Christ.

THOSE are the TRUE characteristics of a "bonefied, scriptually defined believer", PERIOD.

The describe one is remained faithful. But they do not describe a believer by definition of scripture which is one who believes, repents, is baptised into Christ. That is the definition of a bonefied beleiver. What happens after that is up to each iindividual, they can remain, grow, mature, or they can fall away. Adam fell away, you are not immune to it either.

 

[Apostol2013]

With, or by Jesus Christ? This isn't a co-work, its resting in His work.

It was a typo but i see how people believe though but we rest in jesus by doing away of our own works sincr 2e have been joined to the Lord by one Holy Spirit in Christ then we have become one in christ not to ato be holy just lije our master