Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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L
Yes God does reach out to man with His word, but man has to accept.
God choses all, not just some as falsely wants to be spread around. It falls on us to accept that calling.
God choses all, not just some as falsely wants to be spread around. It falls on us to accept that calling.
If God chooses all, then only a fool would say that any are really chosen. The Apostle were not fools.
How can we call ourselves "God's Chosen People" if there are people going to hell that God also chose?
This isn't just logic, this is Scripture.
I would suggest going to a Bible website, and search the words: elect, predestined, chosen, and called.
Your eyes will be opened to how often the writers use these words, and how they use them in context.
D
then why would the New Testament spend so much time talking about the 'chosen' and 'predestined' and 'elect' if none of these words ring true?
If God chooses all, then only a fool would say that any are really chosen. The Apostle were not fools.
How can we call ourselves "God's Chosen People" if there are people going to hell that God also chose?
This isn't just logic, this is Scripture.
I would suggest going to a Bible website, and search the words: elect, predestined, chosen, and called.
Your eyes will be opened to how often the writers use these words, and how they use them in context.
If God chooses all, then only a fool would say that any are really chosen. The Apostle were not fools.
How can we call ourselves "God's Chosen People" if there are people going to hell that God also chose?
This isn't just logic, this is Scripture.
I would suggest going to a Bible website, and search the words: elect, predestined, chosen, and called.
Your eyes will be opened to how often the writers use these words, and how they use them in context.
E
Look at the story of the Prodigal Son, the Son did not have to return, had he not he would still be lost, but he repented and like a good father, the Son was restored...
the prodigal son was still the son, He still was his fathers. if he would have died, he still would have been his fathers son.
get over yourself. you are not worthy to sit in the same room with God. let alone enter his house, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO
E
I do still have sin in my life. The willful sinner the bible speaks of one who does it without sorrow, sadness, conviction, and no need to repent because they feel they are doing nothing wrong.
I guarantee you can not do it.
E
Yes, my friend. It did happen. You see, He did not leave me, I left Him. He did not kick me out, but after that unthoughtful act, I told Him that if that was love, I wanted nothing to do with Love. Boy, why did I say that!!!!! I kicked Him out, you see. Don't get me wrong, as I saw Him leave, I asked Him to return. Hmmm, as He turned around to look at me, He said no.
if you leave, he will leave the rest of the flock to come find you.
You will not disobey him and not come back. Jesus makes it clear. His sheep hear his voice, and they follow him (remember we are just stupid sheep who do not know any better, we run to where we think something is better, but God always comes after us to take us back to where we do not belong.
Now. If you do not hear his voice, and do not return, there is only one reason, He is not your sheppard. never has been.
this is what scripture teaches.
But, you are right, He did not kick me out, I kicked Him out and to this day, how I miss that fellowship.
Correct, He was faithful and did not kick me out. But trust me, I kicked Him out and with my own eyes, His Spirit I did see leave me. Yet you say that if I lost faith in Him that He would not kick me out, although it is faith which does save. So, are you saying that I am saved even though I would not have faith in Him? No, my friend, my faith saves me, although I have no such delightful existence in the Light as I once had.
No, it is not so. He loved me, I wanted nothing to do with love if love was defined by that unthoughtful act inflicted upon my heart.
Consider my words, He is faithful, but we can always kick Him out though.
No, it is not so. He loved me, I wanted nothing to do with love if love was defined by that unthoughtful act inflicted upon my heart.
Consider my words, He is faithful, but we can always kick Him out though.
where is that in Scripture? that sounds great, but has no standing from a Biblical worldview.
Christ is the Savior of the world. John 4:42. He saved mankind from death and sin. Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:12-22.
I'm beginning to see why so many have problems in understanding scripture.
L
You have got to be kidding? God is love. This is not a characteristic, it is His essence. Also, God so loved the world, what is excluded. Why would you even think God would not love either His creation, or His most prized creature, man created in His own Image.
Christ is the Savior of the world. John 4:42. He saved mankind from death and sin. Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:12-22.
I'm beginning to see why so many have problems in understanding scripture.
Christ is the Savior of the world. John 4:42. He saved mankind from death and sin. Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:12-22.
I'm beginning to see why so many have problems in understanding scripture.
You didn't only state that God loves all, but also stated that whether man does or doesn't love Him back doesn't depend on God, but upon the person. Where did you find that in Scripture?
then why would the New Testament spend so much time talking about the 'chosen' and 'predestined' and 'elect' if none of these words ring true?
If God chooses all, then only a fool would say that any are really chosen. The Apostle were not fools.
How can we call ourselves "God's Chosen People" if there are people going to hell that God also chose?
This isn't just logic, this is Scripture.
I would suggest going to a Bible website, and search the words: elect, predestined, chosen, and called.
Your eyes will be opened to how often the writers use these words, and how they use them in context.
If God chooses all, then only a fool would say that any are really chosen. The Apostle were not fools.
How can we call ourselves "God's Chosen People" if there are people going to hell that God also chose?
This isn't just logic, this is Scripture.
I would suggest going to a Bible website, and search the words: elect, predestined, chosen, and called.
Your eyes will be opened to how often the writers use these words, and how they use them in context.
The elect, only refers to those IN Christ. It is another name for His Body, or His Church.
Chosen is used in many different ways. The elect are also God's Chosen. God chose the disciples, God chose Paul to be a servant for him as He also gives gifts to others which are said to be chosen by him. But there is NEVER a reference that God elected, predetined, chose any individual to salvation, or to believe.
The word, called. Again used many times for many different reasons. But the most telling is that God through the Holy Spirit calls all men to repentance. Rom 2:;4, Mark 2:17.
C
You will not disobey him and not come back.
What will He do, force me to follow Him? That would make my faith a forced believe, would it not?
Jesus makes it clear. His sheep hear his voice, and they follow him (remember we are just stupid sheep who do not know any better, we run to where we think something is better, but God always comes after us to take us back to where we do not belong.
Now. If you do not hear his voice, and do not return, there is only one reason, He is not your sheppard. never has been.
this is what scripture teaches.
Then you will miss his fellowship. His help. His provisions for your life, and in turn be one of th emost miserable man on earth (which by the way is a good thing not a bad thing) but you are still his son.
EG, from the bottom of my heart, I know very well that I cannot stay in the pig pen I am in and still think I will make it to Heaven. Without having that fellowship with Him, then I am not in Him and if I am not in Him then I am lost, as not being in the Light, but darkness. I know that I cannot continue in this lasciviousness, seeing that it opposes the Spirit.
A true child of God can not kick God out, they can leave, But God will find them (you can not hide from God do not think you can) if you are his true sheep. you will hear his voice and return (chastening causes this, Believe me I know. I been there done that!!) if you were never his sheep. You will not hear his voice, and keep walking away.
I know that experience was true, please do not tell me that it was not. I, yes I, I myself, saw Him leave EG. I saw it. God desires those who freely chooses Him, He will not force Himself on one if they do not desire to continue that fellowship.
[/QUOTE]
I wasn't questioning God's love, I was questioning your assertion that salvation is by reciprocal love....
You didn't only state that God loves all, but also stated that whether man does or doesn't love Him back doesn't depend on God, but upon the person. Where did you find that in Scripture?
You didn't only state that God loves all, but also stated that whether man does or doesn't love Him back doesn't depend on God, but upon the person. Where did you find that in Scripture?
L
Where do you believe Hitler is, or will be when put in front of the judgment seat ?
I am not apposed to the other views, as Scripture is not perfectly clear on the subject.
It will be made clear on the Last Day.
L
Ah, yes, do a word search, everytime it is used would all have the same meaning.
The elect, only refers to those IN Christ. It is another name for His Body, or His Church.
Chosen is used in many different ways. The elect are also God's Chosen. God chose the disciples, God chose Paul to be a servant for him as He also gives gifts to others which are said to be chosen by him. But there is NEVER a reference that God elected, predetined, chose any individual to salvation, or to believe.
The word, called. Again used many times for many different reasons. But the most telling is that God through the Holy Spirit calls all men to repentance. Rom 2:;4, Mark 2:17.
The elect, only refers to those IN Christ. It is another name for His Body, or His Church.
Chosen is used in many different ways. The elect are also God's Chosen. God chose the disciples, God chose Paul to be a servant for him as He also gives gifts to others which are said to be chosen by him. But there is NEVER a reference that God elected, predetined, chose any individual to salvation, or to believe.
The word, called. Again used many times for many different reasons. But the most telling is that God through the Holy Spirit calls all men to repentance. Rom 2:;4, Mark 2:17.
If we just redefine the words of Scripture, there is no point in reading the Word, because we're just making up what we believe anyways.
I disagree.
if you leave, he will leave the rest of the flock to come find you.
You will not disobey him and not come back. Jesus makes it clear. His sheep hear his voice, and they follow him (remember we are just stupid sheep who do not know any better, we run to where we think something is better, but God always comes after us to take us back to where we do not belong.
Now. If you do not hear his voice, and do not return, there is only one reason, He is not your sheppard. never has been.
this is what scripture teaches.
Then you will miss his fellowship. His help. His provisions for your life, and in turn be one of th emost miserable man on earth (which by the way is a good thing not a bad thing) but you are still his son.
A true child of God can not kick God out, they can leave, But God will find them (you can not hide from God do not think you can) if you are his true sheep. you will hear his voice and return (chastening causes this, Believe me I know. I been there done that!!) if you were never his sheep. You will not hear his voice, and keep walking away.
if you leave, he will leave the rest of the flock to come find you.
You will not disobey him and not come back. Jesus makes it clear. His sheep hear his voice, and they follow him (remember we are just stupid sheep who do not know any better, we run to where we think something is better, but God always comes after us to take us back to where we do not belong.
Now. If you do not hear his voice, and do not return, there is only one reason, He is not your sheppard. never has been.
this is what scripture teaches.
Then you will miss his fellowship. His help. His provisions for your life, and in turn be one of th emost miserable man on earth (which by the way is a good thing not a bad thing) but you are still his son.
A true child of God can not kick God out, they can leave, But God will find them (you can not hide from God do not think you can) if you are his true sheep. you will hear his voice and return (chastening causes this, Believe me I know. I been there done that!!) if you were never his sheep. You will not hear his voice, and keep walking away.
You have done with scripture that a lot of other men do as well. Make one thing dogmatic, such as this metaphor. You extend the metaphor way out of proportion to what scripture teaches elsewhere. It is why you have so many contradictions in your theology. You hold to this True Faith, which is meaningless really. Man has faith, many different kinds of faith, but the fact he has faith is what matters. A person possessing your True FAITH, can reject Christ and thus no longer have any faith. It is not up to God that you are faithful. It is all up to you. Your desire, your will that determines IF you will be saved. Which is another false assumptions. Having possession is not salvation. Salvation is inherited at the end, if we endure, if we have actually walked the entire way toward perfection, that we did not give up the race, the journey, the walk.